Oner Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Part of me wants to say that if a gameworld has to rely on the vicarious implied knocking of boots in order to make the protagonist want to save it from certain doom, it doesn't have much going for it to begin with.It's a step up from "I feel very heroic today! Come lads, let's Save The World!" if you ask me. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 " course this all runs into the problem that Gromnir always points out with CRPG romances-- they're going to stink so long as the games are written with them as an optional side-quest. To create an interesting and possibly moving romance involving the PC, the writers are going to have to have the stones to make it a main feature of the game's central plot motivation. (E.g., You don't get to decide whether Guybrush likes Elaine or not; and, although this isn't quite the same thing, you didn't get to decide how past-TNO felt about Ravel or Deionarra.)" No, Grom is wrong. Just like his 'thieves suck' garbage. the last thing BIO games need is more forced things. If Grom wants forced romances then he should go play the Final Fantasies (which are fine in their own right but a whole different type game). BIO, last i checked, are still making western style RPGs (even some like ME have borrowed aspects from other genres). The reason why romances in BIO games work for me is becuase I can CHOOSE to take part in them or not. It makes the choices matter. Things mean more when they are chosen. This is true for good vs evil. Being good in a game that forces you to be good is NOT as satisfying as being good in a game where the option to be evil there. It's a lot more fun to be good in games like DA, FO, or MOTB than a game like FF, Super Mario, etc. *shrug* DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 " course this all runs into the problem that Gromnir always points out with CRPG romances-- they're going to stink so long as the games are written with them as an optional side-quest. To create an interesting and possibly moving romance involving the PC, the writers are going to have to have the stones to make it a main feature of the game's central plot motivation. (E.g., You don't get to decide whether Guybrush likes Elaine or not; and, although this isn't quite the same thing, you didn't get to decide how past-TNO felt about Ravel or Deionarra.)" No, Grom is wrong. Just like his 'thieves suck' garbage. the last thing BIO games need is more forced things. If Grom wants forced romances then he should go play the Final Fantasies (which are fine in their own right but a whole different type game). BIO, last i checked, are still making western style RPGs (even some like ME have borrowed aspects from other genres). The reason why romances in BIO games work for me is becuase I can CHOOSE to take part in them or not. It makes the choices matter. Things mean more when they are chosen. This is true for good vs evil. Being good in a game that forces you to be good is NOT as satisfying as being good in a game where the option to be evil there. It's a lot more fun to be good in games like DA, FO, or MOTB than a game like FF, Super Mario, etc. *shrug* not that vol can read anyways... http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showt...mp;#entry990840 http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showt...mp;#entry990931 is our first two da posts regarding rogues... clarified right from start that rogues ain't useless or trash or whatever. bio gimped a da warrior (removed possibility o' sword & board and 2-H), then added some thiefy stuff. is complete unnecessary. and vol misunderstands our point 'bout romances too. Gromnir is perfect ok with bio romances being tangential. as Gromnir hates the way bio writes romance, we prefer that it is tangential and easily ignored. HOWEVER, we also observe that no writer is gonna be able to genuine create a compelling romance that is tangential and optional. if the romance is complete separate and optional, then it cannot have significant impact on the critical path plot. the current half-baked romances is good enough for fans such as vol. additionally, the current bio approach lets folks like Gromnir complete ignore the hackneyed and juvenile romances. the problem is that some people want the bio romances to be better than they is now, and that just ain't gonna happen. the entire romance arc must be kept insular and discreet from the critical path story, so the biowarians gots a double handful o' tangential dialogue encounters 'tween the protagonist and the romance-able npc to go through the entire dramatic progression without the resolution or actions o' the romance having significant impact beyond the romance. yeah, right. by their very nature, bio romances will always feels rushed and underwhelming. perhaps the romances is "good enough" for those folks who likes the romances, but it is not possible to major improve the romances if they is kept tangential and optional. name any movie, book, tv show or play that had a memorable and compelling romance. now explains how the romance from your example coulda' been complete removed from the main storyline without altering the romance story or the main plot. protagonist romance, whether you like or not, is never fodder for tangential. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I don't know, I think BG2 kind of took a step in the right direction with the romanceable CNPC getting vamp'd. In the later stages of the "romances" they mainly revolved around how they could survive and function given the state of the PC and things he / she was involved in. That felt alright to me. Fair point on romances staying out of the critical plot, though. There's a certain amount of danger involved in making your critical plot contingent on the PCs affections towards an NPC that the player may or may not identify with (at least, with people who think a lot about games as we do) One of the things that annoyed me about Fallout 3 was how concern for my character's father was largely foisted upon me, when I didn't find the father character or his life's work particularly interesting. Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Is this confirmed? If so, then smooth move, Bio. A developer popped into a thread and said that Kelly was his favorite love interest. I was.. odd. I think he must be new or something because BioWare doesn't just drop romancable info. With Dragon Age, Alistiar and Morrigan both had offical announcements from Chris. Personally, I find this a bit more realistic than some of the JNPC romance options, and gives the main character another reason to save the country/world/galaxy/universe. I suppose that banging one's secretary is a little bit less creepy than putting the moves on inferior officers for whom one has direct command responsibility... I find it far more skeevy, and Kelly is a yeoman so Shepard does have direct command responsibility, whatever that means. Cerberus built the SR2, and Shepard seems to be working for them now, but it seems to also be an Allience warship and he's a Commander even though he's officially dead. Unless the human military is now blatently working with a massive terrorist originization, it doesn't make much sense to me. Hopefully the game will explain it. Anyways, none of the squadmates are military. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Hawt! Can't wait for more human on alien action. Who's Kelly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I just want EDI to be romanceable. "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 How about a good ol' bromance with Joker? And what if NPCs had their own romances with each other? This kind of innovation would blow Biofans' minds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oner Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Who's Kelly?Your secretary. I just want EDI to be romanceable.Joker already has her. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Who's Kelly?Your secretary. Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 And what if NPCs had their own romances with each other? This kind of innovation would blow Biofans' minds! That would actually be great. "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 And maybe you could nudge them along or be all hard-ass captain and stop it from putting the ship in danger. Why am I not getting paid for this!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oner Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Lemme see.. Jaheira+Khalid Khalid got killed off Jaheira becomes romanceable See a pattern? Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I see diminishing returns... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 And what if NPCs had their own romances with each other? This kind of innovation would blow Biofans' minds! In DA, if you don't romance Morrigan or Alistiar they start something with one another. I wouldn't call it a romance though. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bos_hybrid Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 New character trailers: Thane Grunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 And what if NPCs had their own romances with each other? This kind of innovation would blow Biofans' minds! That would actually be great. Haer'dalis & Aerie. The cheeky tiefling tried to steal my girl. So following Keldorn's sterling example on how to deal with unfaithfulness, I promptly slew them both on the spot. Ah, the memories... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 New character trailers: Thane Grunt Thane sounds interesting, Grunt just looks retarded. "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoonDing Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Where is that Miranda character trailer? I think I've already seen that Grunt. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I want teh kotor 3 Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Thane is one hardcore ************. Grunt is meh; he's been done too many times before. I'm sure Bioware will find some way to make him interesting, though. In 7th grade, I teach the students how Chuck Norris took down the Roman Empire, so it is good that you are starting early on this curriculum. R.I.P. KOTOR 2003-2008 KILLED BY THOSE GREEDY MONEY-HOARDING ************* AND THEIR *****-*** MMOS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 So nice to see Bio recycling the same old archetypes: Lovable Female Rogue: Imoen, Mission, Leliana, Tali. Lowbrow Thug with Peculiar sense of Honor: Korgan, Canderous, Black Whirlwind, Wrex, Oghren, (Grunt?) Assassin with Heart of Gold: Yoshimo, HK-47, Sagacious Zu, Zevran, (Thane?) Condescending Mentor: Jaheira, Jolee, Wynne. Emotionally Scarred Emo: Aerie, Carth, Kaiden, (Samara?) Bitchy Feminista: Viconia, Bastila, Silk Fox, Morrigan, (Subject Zero?) The Racist: Keldorn, Juhani, Ashley, Shale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hurlshort Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Seven different archetypes is actually a pretty good number. I could see a complaint if there were like 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 So nice to see Bio recycling the same old archetypes: Assassin with Heart of Gold: HK-47 ... we would argue with some on your list, but am not having the energy. even so, am glad we weren't drinking when we read the above... woulda' sent kool-aid shooting across our monitor screen. HA! Good Fun! "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted December 29, 2009 Share Posted December 29, 2009 Yeah I noticed that. Also, Shale = racist? Really? Join me, and we shall make Production Beards a reality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 Emotionally Scarred Emo: Aerie, Carth, Kaiden, (Samara?) I am fairly sure Alistair falls into that category. Finding Emo... “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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