Developer involvement in community discussions

[Kelverin]

Sure it does, try to analyze this. You can't please all of the people all of the time. Or is that you can't please everyone anytime?

My experience is nowadays no one makes their game as good as possible on the first "try" without some fan feedback.

There are so many variables though, I mean what you like I might dislike and vice versa, what indicates your dollar is worth more than mine? Than again the majority of your target audience does not even visit this forum or others like it so how do you give them what they want. Let's take fallout 3 for example I hated that piece of garbage, does beth regret not listening to me? Hell no their laughing their ass off and countin the $$$$$$$$$

[Llyranor]

OMG JE SAWYER POSTED IN THIS THREAD

 

LEGENDARY THREAD

 

WE'RE MAKING HISTORY RIGHT NOW, GUYS

 

PLEASE MARRY ME JE SAWYER

 

PLEASE MARRY ME AND FALLOUT NEW VEGAS TOO

[Aristes]

Oh Sawyer posts in all sorts of threads. Some of them are not legendary, I assure you.

[Syraxis]

This thread got me thinking. 8 million people bought FO 3, most(?) of them [deleted] and shouting best gaem evar!!, and..where are those people?

 

"Those" people don't care enough about what changes occur in the next game, they're too busy playing the next heavily marketed "triple AAA" title to post on the fourms.

 

[sent from phone. Because im still on an island in a hotel that tries to get away with charging $15.00 for 24 hour limit om wifi.]

[Oner]

Sure it does, try to analyze this. You can't please all of the people all of the time. Or is that you can't please everyone anytime?

My experience is nowadays no one makes their game as good as possible on the first "try" without some fan feedback.

There are so many variables though, I mean what you like I might dislike and vice versa, what indicates your dollar is worth more than mine? Than again the majority of your target audience does not even visit this forum or others like it so how do you give them what they want. Let's take fallout 3 for example I hated that piece of garbage, does beth regret not listening to me? Hell no their laughing their ass off and countin the $$$$$$$$$

Well, take HL 2 for example. Some people liked it the way it was. Others said it was boring. So Valve put more details into it to keep your brain busy (Alyx chatting, puzzles, environmental puzzles while you are fighting ant lions, sitting in a house that's stormed from 3-4 directions, etc). Those who liked it will like it even more, those who found it boring won't find it boring anymore, and those who still find it boring...well, their loss. But the game still got better.

[Maria Caliban]

As we're supposed to limit ourselves to the three 'official' New Vegas threads, I'm going to give this one a proper title and one that broadens the topic a little.

 

Sow's ear. Silk purse.

[Gromnir]

As we're supposed to limit ourselves to the three 'official' New Vegas threads, I'm going to give this one a proper title and one that broadens the topic a little.

 

comes across as a bit paternalistic. kill the thread? sure, but put words in twink's gob just not seem right. gonna change the title and genesis post o' thread, then aught to change author too. . attributing your words to somebody else, even with good intentions, is wrong.

 

as to current thread... am not too concerned by silence. after all, josh is probable still in mourning over his aliens game. am not sure how many killed projects josh has now been part of, but it must be somewhat discouraging.

 

...

 

am kinda curious to know 'bout relationship 'tween bethesda and obsidian. am betting that there is loads o' stuff the obsinaties would like to change 'bout fallout 3. how much freedom has obsidian to alter fallout 3?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Slowtrain]

am kinda curious to know 'bout relationship 'tween bethesda and obsidian. am betting that there is loads o' stuff the obsinaties would like to change 'bout fallout 3. how much freedom has obsidian to alter fallout 3?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

lol. I asked this question several times over the last few mionths. Needless to say, yet to receive an answer.

 

 

It's all very hush-hush apparently.

 

 

Anyway, I think ideally there can be a balance between the devs interacting with the fans of their games who take the tinme to post, but without getting down on their knees to the fans either.

 

 

In the past, Josh has always been pretty good with that balancing. This is the quietest I've ever seen him during az game's development.

 

Maybe Grommy is right and the aliens cancellation had some impact.

[Hurlshort]

I think it is neat to have a community manager, or at least someone on the inside giving the occasional scoop (like when Cantousent did his testing.)

 

I don't think developers should feel the need to spend much time on the forums. They have better things to do, and forums really represent a very minor part of the player base they are making games for. In other words, we aren't very important, developers made wonderful games before forums existed.

[Slowtrain]

I think it is neat to have a community manager, or at least someone on the inside giving the occasional scoop (like when Cantousent did his testing.)

 

I don't think developers should feel the need to spend much time on the forums. They have better things to do, and forums really represent a very minor part of the player base they are making games for. In other words, we aren't very important, developers made wonderful games before forums existed.

 

 

I dunno if Iagree with that, hurlie. I mean, yes, the devs real work is making the game not interactuing with the fans, but I don't think there is any need to set those two things off as mutually exclusive.

 

IIRC, and maybe I am just misremembering, years ago there used to be a lot more interaction between developers and fans. It felt like it was two sides of one commmunity. Nowadays, it often feels like the devs are up in their ivory towers making games, while hoi polloi (us) sort of mill around aimlessly in the streets far below.

[Llyranor]

NWN2 had Rob McInnis, AP has Matthew Rorie. New Vegas will have its PR face as well. Boohoo.

[mkreku]

Actually, we are important. People like us have played a lot of games. We have seen the most of what can go right and wrong in game development over the years. The problem is trying to distil something valuable from the GB's of tosh we end up typing here in our eternal boredom.

 

The New Vegas suggestions thread is a great idea, but participation from the developers is necessary. Otherwise it quickly degenerates into a "In how many ways does Bethesda and Fallout 3 suck? Let me count them!" fest.

[Slowtrain]

NWN2 had Rob McInnis, AP has Matthew Rorie. New Vegas will have its PR face as well. Boohoo.

 

 

I think Matthew does a great job. But its pretty formal.

[Niten_Ryu]

Actually, we are important. People like us have played a lot of games. We have seen the most of what can go right and wrong in game development over the years.

 

I have to disagree with this. Majority of regulars in this board care only what they want. It's understandable but at the same time it's useless info for the developers. To make matters even worse, this many in this board are interested of niche games or design choices that are financially extremely risky.

 

Budget, development time or resources mean very little for the board members, but are just about everything for the developers. We DEMAND that developers listen to us but at the same time have barely any idea what going on. It's best that developers ignore us.

[Slowtrain]

Actually, we are important. People like us have played a lot of games. We have seen the most of what can go right and wrong in game development over the years.

 

I have to disagree with this. Majority of regulars in this board care only what they want. It's understandable but at the same time it's useless info for the developers. To make matters even worse, this many in this board are interested of niche games or design choices that are financially extremely risky.

 

Budget, development time or resources mean very little for the board members, but are just about everything for the developers. We DEMAND that developers listen to us but at the same time have barely any idea what going on. It's best that developers ignore us.

 

 

See the thing is interaction between fans and developers didn't used to be just about getting what you want. That's where I see the loss nowadays.

[Aristes]

I can't help but think that exchanging ideas and discussing possibilities is good for any developer. On the other hand, there might not be a lot of time for this sort of thing. The developers who like talking about games and who enjoy the company of the members on their own forum undoubtedly do benefit from interaction. However, the benefit isn't great enough to devote actual man hours to it.

 

Otherwise, the community is just something to manage. They just don't want folks getting too unruly or out of hand lest they create negative hype about the title. There are only two things that a fanbase can really do for a publisher. They can create negativity about a title, which is bad. They can create positive hype about a title, which is good. If you think that the potential hype will be a significant advantage, then it's worth it to invest in the community. If you think that the community will not significantly add to the hype or even have a negative impact on it, the community is simply not worth it.

 

As far as our input as experienced gamers? *shrug* I'm sure that's true, but that experience is uneven, narrowed by tastes, and even contradictory between members. Like I said, discussion is generally good across the board for any endeavor, but developer message boards are not necessary for these discussion and, in some cases, might be a worse place to hold them.

[Hurlshort]

Actually, we are important. People like us have played a lot of games. We have seen the most of what can go right and wrong in game development over the years.

 

I have to disagree with this. Majority of regulars in this board care only what they want. It's understandable but at the same time it's useless info for the developers. To make matters even worse, this many in this board are interested of niche games or design choices that are financially extremely risky.

 

Budget, development time or resources mean very little for the board members, but are just about everything for the developers. We DEMAND that developers listen to us but at the same time have barely any idea what going on. It's best that developers ignore us.

 

 

See the thing is interaction between fans and developers didn't used to be just about getting what you want. That's where I see the loss nowadays.

 

I almost feel like the issue here is too much access between fans and developers. Sure, a small developer with a small following can spend some time communicating on a forum, but Bioware and Bethesda boards are overloaded, and many of the regular posters are frighteningly out of touch with reality.

 

I don't mean to make it sound like we can't make a difference in the development of a title. If we have a bunch of people all asking for the same feature, then it will probably get through to the developer. But they aren't going to respond to it often because they have to weigh other factors, and in the end if it doesn't make the cut, that isn't something they want to explain.

[Zoma]

J.E seemed to be carrying a (No offence) grumpy, bitter outlook these days due to the cancelled Aliens RPG.

 

Its understandable though. But I think he ought to have taken a vacation first instead of jumping into another Lead Designer role immediately.

Edited August 22, 2009 by Zoma

[Hell Kitty]

As far as our input as experienced gamers? *shrug* I'm sure that's true, but that experience is uneven, narrowed by tastes, and even contradictory between members.

 

Majority of regulars in this board care only what they want.

 

Yep, and that's true of every board. Knowing what you like and don't like is not the same as knowing what is right and wrong in game development. Consuming a lot of products doesn't make you an expert.

 

While individuals will occasionally post good ideas and points, there is a whole lot of whiny crap to wade through to get to them, and often it's just not going to seem worth it.

[Bos_hybrid]

I almost feel like the issue here is too much access between fans and developers. Sure, a small developer with a small following can spend some time communicating on a forum, but Bioware and Bethesda boards are overloaded, and many of the regular posters are frighteningly out of touch with reality.

 

Quoted for truth. But add NMA and the codex to the list, hell add almost every game forum in existence. Sure sometimes there will be a diamond suggestion amongst all the muck, but is really worth the smell you come out with afterwards? I think devs as a whole for better or worse don't.