entrerix Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 stone age and medieval are different. medieval was a lot less healthy than the hunter-gatherer lifestyle Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Purkake Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) I think the point is that IF people managed to live well into the 60s in a time where filth was thrown on the streets & diseases were mostly treated by tapping blood, the people must have had heartier constitutions than people nowadays... I'd say they were the lucky ones. There were certainly less old people then. Edited August 26, 2009 by Purkake
RPGmasterBoo Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 They even did it here in Tallinn. Quite a few people lived in cities by that time and cities were pretty much super gross. People in villages were probably somewhat healthier, but they still died because of diseases etc. The smaller part lived in cities, and it couldnt be much different given middle ages agriculture dominated economy. people die because of diseases today as well. I'm not arguing that it was a mythical golden age of any sort, but the dark ages viewpoint was redundant a long time ago, and from the start it was enlightenment propaganda. Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life
Purkake Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 They even did it here in Tallinn. Quite a few people lived in cities by that time and cities were pretty much super gross. People in villages were probably somewhat healthier, but they still died because of diseases etc. The smaller part lived in cities, and it couldnt be much different given middle ages agriculture dominated economy. people die because of diseases today as well. I'm not arguing that it was a mythical golden age of any sort, but the dark ages viewpoint was redundant a long time ago, and from the start it was enlightenment propaganda. There is a difference between 30-60% the population of Europe dying because of disease and the situation today.
RPGmasterBoo Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) I very much doubt 'healthier surroundings and diet' - you have a point about infant deaths, but I think you're overcompensating. It is true that the idea of medieval people dropping dead at 30 is bogus (you had a better chance of that in industrial London), but they certainly were smaller and less healthy than the modern man. There was only one large city for hundreds of years and that was Constantinopole, (500000 people) all the rest were practically village size - hence pollution of the sort you describe is a small issue. Not counting Islamic regions or anywhere else (how's that for implicit Eurocentrism ), the failure to construct proper urban infrastructure in terms of public health was a concern for 'smaller' cities such as London and Paris from at least the 15th-16th century. Look, I don't even know how you can make such a claim when at the very least, the Black Death is staring right in front of you and picking your nose. Now, about their immune system, you could possibly make a case. I think the interesting thing is that most high fantasy settings don't consider the lifespan / health issue, and the demographic is pretty much what you'd expect from modern society. There're always decrepit old men thrown around, etc. Smaller, yes, less healthy - well that depends. They let diseases take their toll for the most part, but since they survived the toughest childhood period, they had a well developed immune system as you yourself note, and hence were equipped to deal with them to some extent. They couldnt treat the common, more disgusting conditions such as toothache or skin issues, but the body itself functioned dominantly through physical labor in an unpolluted countryside as is in fact natural to human beings. the result, while perhaps dirty, and disgusting on first sight is a very tough and adaptable individual, with a likelyhood of living a long life. The western european city life in the medieval ages went through the black death, yes - however there were other medieval civilizations which didn't. So that just shows that the european model was inferior in sanitary issues to the rest but it doesnt invalidate the entire era. Edited August 26, 2009 by RPGmasterBoo Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life
RPGmasterBoo Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 I think the point is that IF people managed to live well into the 60s in a time where filth was thrown on the streets & diseases were mostly treated by tapping blood, the people must have had heartier constitutions than people nowadays... Yes. Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life
alanschu Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 ^ Many medieval physicians maintained, well into the 15th Century, that washing weakened the skin and made a person more vulnerable to disease. They also believed that bloodletting would cure/prevent diseases, and in fact killed George Washington doing so. I am often suspect of medical doctors today, but back then physicians had nothing resembling substantial empirical study to support their assertions.
Slowtrain Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 Most interesting derailment on this board for a while now. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
alanschu Posted August 26, 2009 Posted August 26, 2009 I won't dispute that medicine doesn't have much of an impact. It is overstated by a significant amount. Medicalization has taken over a lot of different aspects of our lives, much of it for worse.
RPGmasterBoo Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) Most interesting derailment on this board for a while now. Yeah, one forgets that there are more interesting things to argue with random strangers about than lukewarm, not yet published, videogames. Edited August 27, 2009 by RPGmasterBoo Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life
Monte Carlo Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 I didn't intent to derail the thread, but medieval life expectancy has proved to be more interesting than the ongoing Dragon Age debate...
Maria Caliban Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 I'd say half of all the Dragon Age threads are talk about something other than DA. Why apologize now? "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
RPGmasterBoo Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 And why apologize anyway since I was the one to derail it all the way The problem with Dragon Age is that we all know what its going to be like. Sure we don't know the details, and what kind of overall impression it will leave but we know the experience through and through, since we sat through it 4 TIMES ALREADY ... Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life
Purkake Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 And why apologize anyway since I was the one to derail it all the way The problem with Dragon Age is that we all know what its going to be like. Sure we don't know the details, and what kind of overall impression it will leave but we know the experience through and through, since we sat through it 4 TIMES ALREADY I still don't have a clue, but I can totally wait until I get to play it myself.
Slowtrain Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 MOAR Dark Ages death and plague talk! Plz. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
HoonDing Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 MOAR Dark Ages death and plague talk! Plz. Let's apply it to Dragon Age: what is the big deal about this "Blight"? Is it some kind of disease that turns people into mooks? Or do the limitless hordes of evil just pop up from the ground every x years? The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Guest Slinky Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 (edited) Let's apply it to Dragon Age: what is the big deal about this "Blight"? Is it some kind of disease that turns people into mooks? Or do the limitless hordes of evil just pop up from the ground every x years? "The Chantry teaches that it is the hubris of men that brought the darkspawn into Thedas. Mages sought to usurp Heaven, but were cast out, twisted by their own corruption, only to return as monsters, the first of the darkspawn." Some sort of disease I guess. Full war starts every time a dragon gets corrupted by the Blight and it starts to lead the rest of the toxic avengers. Edited August 27, 2009 by Slinky
Monte Carlo Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Let's apply it to Dragon Age: what is the big deal about this "Blight"? Is it some kind of disease that turns people into mooks? Or do the limitless hordes of evil just pop up from the ground every x years? "The Chantry teaches that it is the hubris of men that brought the darkspawn into Thedas. Mages sought to usurp Heaven, but were cast out, twisted by their own corruption, only to return as monsters, the first of the darkspawn." Alternatively, it could just be the result of poor food hygiene, perhaps as the result of leaving some particularly ripe cheese out too long.
Syraxis Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 "The Chantry teaches that it is the hubris of men that brought the darkspawn into Thedas. Mages sought to usurp Heaven, but were cast out, twisted by their own corruption, only to return as monsters, the first of the darkspawn." So.... they started as a group of mages who made pacts with demons to serve them in exchange of power?
Guest Slinky Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 So.... they started as a group of mages who made pacts with demons to serve them in exchange of power? I understood it so that it was a group of mages who tried to open a door to some sort of heaven plane and got screwed because they were impure. Who knows? What really happened will likely be found out in game.
Bos_hybrid Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Some of Dragon Age voice cast Can be considered to contain spoilers. To sum up, Tim Curry, Kate Mulgrew, Tim Russ, Claudia Black and Steve Valentine, make up some of the VA cast.
HoonDing Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Why give Tim Curry the role of some minor villain? He has already quite some experience as Archdemon: The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Maria Caliban Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Let's apply it to Dragon Age: what is the big deal about this "Blight"? Is it some kind of disease that turns people into mooks? Or do the limitless hordes of evil just pop up from the ground every x years? They're a bit like mystical, hive mind locusts. If a regular person/creature/plant catches the blight they usually die, though a few people live as ghouls and then die. The dwarves are constantly fighting darkspawn, but when an archdemon leads them, they become a Blight and attack the surface in numbers. I believe it "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
RPGmasterBoo Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 Let's apply it to Dragon Age: what is the big deal about this "Blight"? Is it some kind of disease that turns people into mooks? Or do the limitless hordes of evil just pop up from the ground every x years? They're a bit like mystical, hive mind locusts. If a regular person/creature/plant catches the blight they usually die, though a few people live as ghouls and then die. The dwarves are constantly fighting darkspawn, but when an archdemon leads them, they become a Blight and attack the surface in numbers. I believe it Imperium Thought for the Day: Even a man who has nothing can still offer his life
Maria Caliban Posted August 27, 2009 Posted August 27, 2009 The Borg with swords! "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
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