I got to play AP yesterday :-)

[Kelverin]

Well, nice that Obsidian likes their own games.

I have to say I like that the story seems to be immersive with all the cutscenes.

Cutscences are immersive? That's a new one for me, the exact opposite in fact. All I want to do is cycle through them to move on when I can play the game.

[fastpunk]

Well, nice that Obsidian likes their own games.

I have to say I like that the story seems to be immersive with all the cutscenes.

Cutscences are immersive? That's a new one for me, the exact opposite in fact. All I want to do is cycle through them to move on when I can play the game.

 

I agree about cutscenes in general, but in this case I wouldn't worry about it too much. They are probably dialogue moments, hence interactive.

 

Btw, Jean-Eric, how was the AI while you played it?

I imagine you're not going to answer, but it doesn't hurt to try.

[Bos_hybrid]

Cutscences are immersive? That's a new one for me, the exact opposite in fact. All I want to do is cycle through them to move on when I can play the game.

 

Guess we're lucky you aren't a dev.

[SpaceAlex]

Cutscences are immersive? That's a new one for me, the exact opposite in fact. All I want to do is cycle through them to move on when I can play the game.

 

Guess we're lucky you aren't a dev.

 

Indeed. Maybe he should stick to FPS like Half Life, for example; there are only two short cutscenes (one at the end and one at the beginning).

Edited July 18, 2009 by SpaceAlex

[Kelverin]

Cutscences are immersive? That's a new one for me, the exact opposite in fact. All I want to do is cycle through them to move on when I can play the game.

 

Guess we're lucky you aren't a dev.

 

Indeed. Maybe he should stick to FPS like Half Life, for example; there are only two short cutscenes (one at the end and one at the beginning).

Don't play FPS in my 30+ years of gaming, only ever played COD, not my cup of tea. If I want a movie I'll go see one. Developers have ZERO on filmmakers and should stick to what they know? best, and it aint cinematics.

[Bos_hybrid]

Developers have ZERO on filmmakers and should stick to what they know? best, and it aint cinematics.

 

*cough* Uwe Boll *cough*

[J.E. Sawyer]

Don't play FPS in my 30+ years of gaming, only ever played COD, not my cup of tea. If I want a movie I'll go see one. Developers have ZERO on filmmakers and should stick to what they know? best, and it aint cinematics.

Game development teams often have "REAL" (movie) cinematographers working on them and a large number of concept artists and animators who alternate between working on games and movies. I don't know what would qualify a game cinematic as elevating them as MORE THAN ZERO relative to filmmakers, but the execution of cinematics in (especially) Capcom and MGS games is incredible. If you don't like the content, that's one thing, but it's extreme to say that game developers can't execute cinematics well.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Cutscences are immersive? That's a new one for me, the exact opposite in fact. All I want to do is cycle through them to move on when I can play the game.

 

Guess we're lucky you aren't a dev.

 

Indeed. Maybe he should stick to FPS like Half Life, for example; there are only two short cutscenes (one at the end and one at the beginning).

I remember some very annoying cutscenes in Half-Life 2. Most of them useless.

[Kelverin]

Don't play FPS in my 30+ years of gaming, only ever played COD, not my cup of tea. If I want a movie I'll go see one. Developers have ZERO on filmmakers and should stick to what they know? best, and it aint cinematics.

Game development teams often have "REAL" (movie) cinematographers working on them and a large number of concept artists and animators who alternate between working on games and movies. I don't know what would qualify a game cinematic as elevating them as MORE THAN ZERO relative to filmmakers, but the execution of cinematics in (especially) Capcom and MGS games is incredible. If you don't like the content, that's one thing, but it's extreme to say that game developers can't execute cinematics well.

Some other games I don't play. Maybe I was harsh, but many of those who get into game development and other forms of entertainment jump into the industry as a stepping stone to get to movies, bottom line is they are two different forms of entertainment and I have a problem when they are blended together and to be truthful I like your companies games and the games you worked on in the different studio and reason #156 would be quality of cinematics not a strength of BI or OBS. I don't buy games to be a spectator, quality writing will always tell a better story anyway, players should be involved in the action and don't even get me started in cutscences that take place when MY character is elsewhere and would have no business knowing about what just occurred.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Kelverin

[alanschu]

Cutscences are immersive? That's a new one for me, the exact opposite in fact. All I want to do is cycle through them to move on when I can play the game.

 

Guess we're lucky you aren't a dev.

 

Indeed. Maybe he should stick to FPS like Half Life, for example; there are only two short cutscenes (one at the end and one at the beginning).

I remember some very annoying cutscenes in Half-Life 2. Most of them useless.

 

 

I think the point was that you were always in character in Half-Life 2.

[Mr. Fob]

Some other games I don't play. Maybe I was harsh, but many of those who get into game development and other forms of entertainment jump into the industry as a stepping stone to get to movies, bottom line is they are two different forms of entertainment and I have a problem when they are blended together and to be truthful I like your companies games and the games you worked on in the different studio and reason #156 would be quality of cinematics not a strength of BI or OBS. I don't buy games to be a spectator, quality writing will always tell a better story anyway, players should be involved in the action and don't even get me started in cutscences that take place when MY character is elsewhere and would have no business knowing about what just occurred.

 

OK, well, I like cutscenes and I like the two genres of games and film merging together. For me a game means nothing if ti is not telling a good story. The story for me is the main motivation to play the game in the first place. Cutscenes are one way to do it, cinematic dialogue like in Mass Effect is another. They are both good (if well written and executed of course, but there are examples for that and I hope AP will be another one).

More than that in cutscenes - by taking control away from the player - you can do things with the characters ,which the player cannot do due to limitations of game mechanics (like things as simple to a change of perspective to special moves, etc. etc.). That may be good for the pacing of the game and the storytelling aspect.

I guess in the end, there are enough reasons for or against cutscenes and it boils down to a matter of taste. I personally do not play a game for its mechanics and therefore support the skilled use of cut- and dialogue scenes.

[Joseph Bulock]

[ Don't play FPS in my 30+ years of gaming, only ever played COD, not my cup of tea. If I want a movie I'll go see one. Developers have ZERO on filmmakers and should stick to what they know? best, and it aint cinematics.

 

I actually take a bit of offense here. I went to film school, have a degree and worked on a lot of shorts of both my own and many other students. The animators on the cinematics crew typically study animation to work on animated features as well as game play animations and they all do some amazing work. Personally, I enjoy Avellone's writing as much or more than that found in any feature.

 

Blanket statements like this simply aren't accurate with current video game production teams.

[kreese12]

I wouldn't take too much offense! I think Kelverin is not writing from any actual experience on the subject, he is just writing his assumptions.

 

I really doubt the truthiness of "those who get into game development and other forms of entertainment jump into the industry as a stepping stone to get to movies." This might be the case from time to times, but I see it as false generalization. If you'd care to cite actual examples, or reasons why you feel this Kelverin, then I'd like to hear'em.

 

Personally I don't think that statement is true at all. I've personally worked in film, and done a touch of game design (though I'm not professing to be an expert at either), and personally if I had the choice, I rather be a game cinematic designer than a film cinematic designer. For many reasons -- perhaps the first being working in film is a rough lifestyle (yeah, even worse than games), and the future of narrative development lies in games, not film.

 

While there is a lot of cross-over, the goals and tools of the game cinematic designer and the film cinematic designer are different; one is not a stepping-stone to the either; they are similar avenues taking slightly different routes to the same destination: the effective delivery of a story.

Edited July 21, 2009 by kreese12

[Nepenthe]

[ Don't play FPS in my 30+ years of gaming, only ever played COD, not my cup of tea. If I want a movie I'll go see one. Developers have ZERO on filmmakers and should stick to what they know? best, and it aint cinematics.

 

I actually take a bit of offense here. I went to film school, have a degree and worked on a lot of shorts of both my own and many other students. The animators on the cinematics crew typically study animation to work on animated features as well as game play animations and they all do some amazing work. Personally, I enjoy Avellone's writing as much or more than that found in any feature.

 

Blanket statements like this simply aren't accurate with current video game production teams.

 

I concur. 'Cept I went to law school.

 

All kidding aside, there's more than a few Hollywood blockbusters that could have benefited from some serious script doctoring by Chris Avellone. Happily, in the game format, I get to enjoy the writing for a lot longer than the ~2 hours.

 

On the animation side, I think that it's been the side in gaming that has most developed over the past few years, as the medium becomes less of the limiting factor. I believe a lot of people are going to be blown away by what some of the AAA titles this year and early next year will be offering.

[Jaesun]

Ceiling cat watches you play Alpha Protocol.

[Jean-Eric Khalife]

Did Matt Rorie step down from marketing and a take full-time producer position? Are you the replacement?

 

Nah, I'm just a lowly techincal artist that really enjoyed playing the game, also I apologize for being vague in my desciption, I don't know what I'm allowed to share and what I'm not allowed to share, that's Matt's job .

 

I primarily play RPG's for their story and I think that's one of AP's greatest strengths, the gameplay was a blast too, but stories are what I love and it really drew me in and made me want to keep playing.

 

p.s. It's Jean-Eric not Jean, sorry it's a little pet peeve of mine.

[Cl_Flushentityhero]

Blanket statements like this simply aren't accurate with current video game production teams.

 

Agreed. Blanket statements in general are problematic . . . including the one I just made.

Edited July 21, 2009 by Cl_Flushentityhero

[Kelverin]

I actually take a bit of offense here. I went to film school, have a degree and worked on a lot of shorts of both my own and many other students. The animators on the cinematics crew typically study animation to work on animated features as well as game play animations and they all do some amazing work. Personally, I enjoy Avellone's writing as much or more than that found in any feature.

 

Blanket statements like this simply aren't accurate with current video game production teams.

I'll see your degree and raise you 38 years and over 20,000 movies viewed

 

As someone who is a movie fanatic and will go toe to toe with anyone regarding film I will disagree with you, but I would not get offended and game design is getting closer to films in terms of quality but movies have been around a hell of a long time while games are still a relatively a new form of entertainment. Movies are also suffering from a lack of originality that games do not have at this time. But my argument still stands that cut scenes and cinematics take away immersion from ME playing an RPG other genres maybe they work well just not in RPG's.

 

I never criticized Avellone writing or any writing in an OBS game

[Joseph Bulock]

I'll see your degree and raise you 38 years and over 20,000 movies viewed

 

I

 

 

I wasn't saying I have a degree to establish my authority on the matter, only as a counter point to the idea that the people that create movies are somehow more qualified or more talented. My point is that the people that are in our cinematic team are getting the same training as the film industry, but came into the game industry because that is what we love most of all. The implication that the people who make game cinematic sequences are somehow a step below people working in feature films is simply not true.

[Kelverin]

I wasn't saying I have a degree to establish my authority on the matter, only as a counter point to the idea that the people that create movies are somehow more qualified or more talented. My point is that the people that are in our cinematic team are getting the same training as the film industry, but came into the game industry because that is what we love most of all. The implication that the people who make game cinematic sequences are somehow a step below people working in feature films is simply not true.

We will just have to agree to disagree then. There are hundreds of films I could name where the cinematography blows away anything any game studio have ever come close to obtaining, now that might be more a game engine limitation then the developers talent, but it's true nonetheless.

[alanschu]

There's probably more instances that you can name where the cinematography of a movie is absolutely hideous.

 

It sounds like a supply issue. There's more movies.

[Nartwak]

and... I had a blast playing it. The game was super fun and I didn't want to put it down. Everyone has done a great job on the project and I can't wait to get my hands on the final product. My favorite part of the game was the story and all the cutscenes, I got really into it and I kept playing just one more mission so I could see what happens next. This game is gonna be a great RPG.

 

okay I'm all done rubbing it in

Well I'm sold. When's it coming out, October? Looking forward to it.

[213374U]

Whoa, blast from the past.

[SirPetrakus]

Well, I wouldn't mind a comment on the game's 'feel' and atmosphere. What game did it remind you of the most, Jean-Eric?

[alanschu]

Whoa, blast from the past.

 

 

Yes the Nartwark has rejoined us.

 

All hail the Unity.