Obsidian making Fallout: New Vegas

[Gromnir]

But at the very least, FO3's writing is a ****ton better than the alleged writing that went into ToEE. That game's dialogue and storytelling was memorable for all the wrong reasons.

 

lulz. ok, yeah. i always forget about that abortion of a game.

 

 

@grominir: see above sentence. also, please answer my question...and don't do so by asking a question yourself. also, i'm not trying be clever and the intended irony isn't what i'm commenting on. rather that your posts read like the attempts of a third-rate Joyce fan at best.

 

clarify your specific question.

 

already responded to the superior troika writing nonsense suggestion

 

you is curious as to where we has seen good writing in games... crpgs specific maybe?

 

ps:t were very good and very bad. ravel, as an example, were one o' the best developed crpg characters we can recollect... no doubt that is why chrisA keeps using aspect o' her in every game... kreia and seer and cat lady from iwd2, etc. ps:t dialogues were often terrible with the philosophical introspection that came off as campy., although the planescape setting made easier to swallow. nwn actually had some bright spots... charwood is often overlooked. kotor and some excellent characters, and the intentional mirroring o' the original star wars movies was a clever approach that seems obvious only in retrospect. kotor 2 were typical o' an obsidian project with some good stuff and some real terrible... that blind sith character? who wrote her dialogues? felt bad for kelly hu having to read that dreck. iwd were actually 'bout as good as it gets as far as fantasy plot is concerned. fantasy plot is always hokum, but at least you gots some genuine heroic sacrifice thrown into the mix. along those lines, me deserves some credit for creating genuine heroic sacrifice and making meaningful with contemporaneous gameplay sacrifice. me, much like kotor, had some ok character development... and some real terrible character development. already mentioned that we liked some aspects o' bloodlines. bg2 had a good villain that were underdeveloped... the macbeth allusions and foreshadowing were excellent, but lack o' irenicus focus results in a villain that ends up feeling not much different than the typical cliche fantasy baddie. what a shame.

 

more?

 

there is good crpg writing out there, but hardly any of it came from troika. black isle's original fallouts had intriguing quests... actual craftsmanship o' writing were suspect. to blast fo3 for writing... then to hazily recollect the glorious original fallouts seems more than a bit unfair, no?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Purkake]

But at the very least, FO3's writing is a ****ton better than the alleged writing that went into ToEE. That game's dialogue and storytelling was memorable for all the wrong reasons.

 

lulz. ok, yeah. i always forget about that abortion of a game.

 

In it's defense, they copied almost word for word the original written PnP game, so the blame for quality writing/story telling goes elsewhere. They could be held accountable for not changing, or improving it. But then it would not remain true to the source. It was hard for them to win.

 

I agree, the engine had tons of potential for a real PnP game. Too bad they didn't have the time to squish all the bugs. The game felt like a tech demo.

[Redfield]

PC gamers tend to be a lot more anal-retentive. Thus any game that's less anal-retentive is automatically guilty of consolitis and being dumbed down.

 

this works both ways, you know. i could say "well, console gamers tend to be easily amused. thus any game that looks shiny is automatically awesome!"

 

 

(point being, this is strawmanning. nothing more.)

 

Yes, PC gamers could say that, and they do--CONSTANTLY. The strawman defense is pretty much the M.O. of PC gamers when talking of consoles. Sure, occasionally you'll see somone throw out a PC elitist jab here and there, but its usually in defense against a strawman remark made against console gaming, which is much more prevalent (see cute terms such as "EXBAWX", "console kiddies" "console tards", etc.)

[TwinkieGorilla]

clarify your specific question.

 

what is a good game in Gromnir's world? i can't for the life of me figure out your angle here. you have thousands of posts though, so you must at least think you have an angle.

 

Yes, PC gamers could say that, and they do--CONSTANTLY. The strawman defense is pretty much the M.O. of PC gamers when talking of consoles. Sure, occasionally you'll see somone throw out a PC elitist jab here and there, but its usually in defense against a strawman remark made against console gaming, which is much more prevalent (see cute terms such as "EXBAWX", "console kiddies" "console tards", etc.)

 

right, and they're strawmanning too. doesn't make what you said any less of a strawman, though. there is certainly weight to the argument that there was a shift of gaming style when next-gen consoles began taking over the market.

[Malcador]

PC gamers tend to be a lot more anal-retentive. Thus any game that's less anal-retentive is automatically guilty of consolitis and being dumbed down.

 

Console gamers seem to loathe thinking, if we want to play that, heh. From what consoles have done to my beloved Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six, I can pretty much say games do get dumbed down. They have to appeal to a broad market after all.

[Gromnir]

But at the very least, FO3's writing is a ****ton better than the alleged writing that went into ToEE. That game's dialogue and storytelling was memorable for all the wrong reasons.

 

lulz. ok, yeah. i always forget about that abortion of a game.

 

In it's defense, they copied almost word for word the original written PnP game, so the blame for quality writing/story telling goes elsewhere. They could be held accountable for not changing, or improving it. But then it would not remain true to the source. It was hard for them to win.

 

am gonna call bs

 

1) is not almost word for word... pick up actual copy o' toee

 

2) vol deserves an apology

 

there were a couple o' folks on the toee boards pre release (including vol) that noted that toee were a big module, but a crappy one. beyond general crappiness, it were noted that if troika didn't flesh out the skeleton, toee would be a damned lifeless and dull experience. the troika faithful (and even a troika developer) responded that of course toee would be fleshed out... the old modules were simply a framework upon which the clever and imaginative dm would add his own personal touches to bring to life. the troika faithful had supreme confidence in the ability o' tim cain to be the dm who would breathe life into toee.

 

after toee release THEN we start hearing excuses 'bout how troika simply followed the old ad&d module and how they couldn't be criticized for being faithful. what a crock. the apologists and revisionists really changed their tune after release.

 

don't buy the line o' bull 'bout faithfulness o' toee.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 7, 2009 by Gromnir

[Nightshape]

Not this again...

Edited May 7, 2009 by Nightshape

[Promethean]

PC gamers tend to be a lot more anal-retentive. Thus any game that's less anal-retentive is automatically guilty of consolitis and being dumbed down.

 

Console gamers seem to loathe thinking, if we want to play that, heh. From what consoles have done to my beloved Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six, I can pretty much say games do get dumbed down. They have to appeal to a broad market after all.

 

It started because the Xbox brought in PC devs to consoles. Controllers are much more limited then the kb/m setup, so games are streamlined. The console also cant handle the same kind of games as PC can. An obvious example would be Thief III. They upped the graphics, but in order to fit it on Xbox, the level were smaller, more linear. A PC could have handled that jump in graphics while retaining the larger areas of Thief 1&2.

 

Though that doesnt explain crap like Deus Ex 2. That was just stupid design decisions that they thought would work better for a console audience, but no one ended up liking.

[Gromnir]

game we thought were good.

 

panzer general 2, shadow of the horned rat, dark omens, mechwarrior 2, bg2, mdk2, iwd, battlezone, grim fandango, silent hunter 3, tie fighter, madden football franchise, total annihilation, ps:t, half-life 2 (not Gromnir's kinda game, but it was good even so) fo2, pong... and others

 

am not certain what you thinks such a lit reveals, and is not complete by any stretch o' the imagination, but you asked...

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Nightshape]

LMFAO@Gromnir... Must have been a few years since you had fun with a game.

[TwinkieGorilla]

am not certain what you thinks such a lit reveals, and is not complete by any stretch o' the imagination, but you asked...

 

just trying to figure out what position you're playing, homer.

[Gromnir]

Not this again...

 

is a new group of nma/codex refugees at obsidian... so you gotta expect the deja vu.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

am not certain what you thinks such a lit reveals, and is not complete by any stretch o' the imagination, but you asked...

 

just trying to figure out what position you're playing, homer.

 

catcher in baseball.

 

strong safety or fullback in football

 

usually play prop or flanker in rugby.

 

*shrug*

 

is few things more useless than a list, but you is welcome to it. wanna figure out our culinary leanings from our most recent shopping list?

 

onions, carrot, celery root, short ribs (english cut) ketchup, etc.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 7, 2009 by Gromnir

[TwinkieGorilla]

banned for double-posting.

[Promethean]

Guess I just joined at the wrong time then.

 

I just followed a couple people here from NeoGAF.

[Fionavar]

*getting exasperated by bating and considers just blindly placing people in Mod Status ...

 

So, while my inner monologue dances to and fro aloud, please do try to post with some civility, as I really do so hate having to do anything of note ...

 

FLoSD/ObE

[Gizmo]

LMFAO@Gromnir... Must have been a few years since you had fun with a game.

Not directed @ me... but, I haven't enjoyed any non RTS game made past 2003; but I find games that I like all the time.

 

I made the dire mistake of buying FO3 and the original Max Payne (both for the first time, at about the same time). I installed both, and played both, then FO3 sat neglected for 3 weeks

 

~Odd but similar thing happened when I bought Oblivion. See I bought Oblivion [CE] sight unseen, because I wanted to see what those guys could do with a native IP... and I was impressed ~it lost some luster after the tutorial, but I was still impressed and had hopes for FO3. Never once did it occur to me that they'd actually clone Oblivion for FO3

 

But the odd thing that I mentioned was that I found a retail (2nd hand) copy of "Stone Prophet" and played that too ~and I liked it a hell of a lot more than Oblivion, and liked the voiced dialog better too

~structurally they are not that different.

 

Graphics are not the end all panacea for a great game, and what's true for comic books is not always true for games. (* That good art can save a crap story, but that a great story can be ruined by crap art).

 

*In this case both games had a crap story, but Stone Prophet was more fun to play.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Gizmo

[Promethean]

Have you tried Max Payne 2 with the cinematic mod?

[Gizmo]

Have you tried Max Payne 2 with the cinematic mod?

Not yet. I don't have MP2. I did try MP1 with the kung-fu mod though

[Promethean]

Cinematic mod is much better. I just found out about it a couple days ago, loaded up the game, tons of awesome.

[Hell Kitty]

Without breaking it down to pointless unanswerable nitpicking... yes you can make another 'true' Fallout, it's not a forlorn or pointless hope.

 

Then explain what makes a "true" Fallout game, and why Beth's FO3 isn't one.

 

In pretty much every discussion in internet land about DX3, there is at least one person who'll say "It might be a good game, but it won't be a DX game." Why? Because as a fan of the original you now have the right to determine what makes a true DX game? What if what you think makes a true Fallout is different to what they think makes a true Fallout? Which Fallout is the true true Fallout?

 

There are 3 numbered Fallout games and 2 spinoffs. Like it or not, they are all Fallout games. Just like there are 2 Deus Ex games and soon there will be a third. "True" is just a label people apply to game or games in a series they prefer. And when that preference could be down to any number of things (it's the first in the series / it's the first one they played / it's the most important / it features x, y & z / it's the prettiest / it's the most awesomest / whatever), then arguing what makes for a "true" or "proper" game is ultimately a pointless exercise.

 

"This is what I'd like most in a Fallout game" doesn't really have the authority of "This is what makes a true Fallout game".

[Gizmo]

Cinematic mod is much better. I just found out about it a couple days ago, loaded up the game, tons of awesome.

A cinematic mod would seem to fit the Max games very well.

(IMO the same does not fit so well with FO, but that's a preference I guess).

[Promethean]

In my experience, true is applied to the first game (or the peak in a line of similar games), and any major deviation from that game create a reactions amongst those that dislike the drastic changes, like old RE versus post RE4 fans. Its the same thing as people not counting a black sheep, i.e. DMC 2, Deus Ex 2, Escape from Monkey Island, Ultima IX. Though I think all those are different from Fallout 3 in that they are universally panned. Still FO3 was a drastic change in the formula, that wasnt a spinoff and meant to establish itself as the true successor.

 

And sometimes I think its just fear that they will never get another game like that, or anger at the fact that the new group of fans doesnt appreciate the originals or dont think the original formula is worth anything anymore. It rare for a series to revert unless the change is a commercial **** up like DMC 2 .

Edited May 7, 2009 by Promethean

[Gromnir]

(self-pruned/edited... 'cause we is all about the love)

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited May 7, 2009 by Gromnir

[Promethean]

Cinematic mod is much better. I just found out about it a couple days ago, loaded up the game, tons of awesome.

A cinematic mod would seem to fit the Max games very well.

(IMO the same does not fit so well with FO, but that's a preference I guess).

 

I wouldnt count excessive slow mo and ****ty camera angle as cinematic. A game like Vagrant Story or FFXII had a good cutscene camera. Most games with cutscenes dont seem to know the first thing about camerawork.

 

If you are gonna do it, do it right please.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Promethean