Gorgon Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 just walking around with dogmeat became quite perilous since radscorpions always come in twos and he would get killed by the second one while holding the first one off in a matter of seconds unless you paused the game by talking to him and fixed him up (really silly feature that betrays a lot of balancing problems) Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Promethean Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 Here's the secret formula for a Fallout plot: Need to find macguffin = Must become fish out of water --> While searching for macguffin, uncover dastardly plot that is the "real" story of the game = Fish out of water becomes inadvertant savior to everyone through fate and circumstance There you go, you've got a background to provide a springboard for the plot, but vague enough to be mutable to the player's experience. Fallout 3 was on the right track, they just bungled the motivations, didn't really consider anything beyond the broad strokes, and did a terrible job at tidying up the loose ends. I do think it would be nice if crpgs could move beyond the standard chase-the-macguffin plot though. Also move beyond the need for ther player character to be savior of the world. Slightly more humble and less grandiose motivations migth actually be more interesting. Well isnt that why games like Planescape or KotOR II are so good. They arent save the world plots. They are personal stories. Its what made the SSs so awesome. You against Shodan. And thats like all it is. Yet its way better than 99% of game stories. Of course thats Looking Glass we are talking about. I dont know if there is a studio like them around anymore, where every game raised the bar.
Morgoth Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 Of course thats Looking Glass we are talking about. I dont know if there is a studio like them around anymore, where every game raised the bar. Well, there's Arkane and Irrational that have slight similarities to LG type games, but seriously: Nobody will ever come close to the genuis that was Looking Glass. Rain makes everything better.
Slowtrain Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 *praises Looking Glass* *is sad* Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Luhaja Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 The question on my mind is - will it have the same quality of writing that the old fallout games had...? The comedy of pissing off an enclave guy from the computer in the posoidon (sp) reactor are kind of the depth that I missed in fallout 3. It had depth in a sense but the writing in fallout 3 destroyed the sense of immersion for me. As in I didnt want to play the game anymore because what is a game without the sense of immersion? The escape from reality means a lot to me. Fallout 1 and 2 managed to do that pretty well even though the graphics were bad. Gameplay has a lot more to say than graphics imo.
TwinkieGorilla Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 The question on my mind is - will it have the same quality of writing that the old fallout games had...? i'd imagine so, judging from Sawyer & Avellone's involvement with past Fallout stuffs and Obsidian's usual style of RPG's i'd at the very least assume it will be focused much more on dialogue than FO3. hopw roewur ne?
cronicler Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Actually I would really like it if Obsidian managed to get rid of the Fallout story-curse FO1 was a great and unique game. FO2 didn't really add much to the game actually. Sure they added about a million quests and tons of text but it was basically FO1: Bigger more and extended. Even the pacing of the main story was the same. Sure all the creativity in the game coupled with the solid gameplay elements meant an upper %80 game but it was still a re-hash. I really want to see a game about personal story someday. Just some hints, some light stories about how you came to be the guy starting the journey. something like Fallout did with the endings; you choose your origin, background skills etc at the char creation and you get a mini slide-show of your past when the game begins: you with your last bullet in your pistol and only determination and madness on your side. Sure there should be an actual "Main Quest" that goes on in the background but I don't really want is to be waggled at my face at every step. Just Imagine: I am a small time guy. I don't play politics or any big **** like modern guns or drugs. Sure I have to work like a dog and do a lot of favors but I am an independent operator. No one tries to take over me. I just want to get a living and some income for myself and some fun. Yea lots of fun and girls and booze. Maybe I want to take over a bar (hey I'm not an angel) or just kidnap that Red haired lass. Man she costs a lot Then on a tricky but just a small time job I happen to find some copies of documents / stuck in the middle of a shootout between some heavy guys / hack an important guys computer to find stuff to blackmail him and get some weird stuff instead / break into a big guys place to steal some dough only to find something really weird. Suddenly I am "persona very non-grata" to some big time heavy organization(s). What the hell is going on? I need to find some intel or I am toast.... And so my journey into the mess begins. Being declared the guy that will hold the bag because he was there at the wrong (right?) time is more intresting than nth rehash of "YOUUU AREEE THEEE CHOSENNNN ONEEE"... Edited April 30, 2009 by cronicler IG. We kick ass and not even take names.
Mikhailian Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 I really want to see a game about personal story someday. Just some hints, some light stories about how you came to be the guy starting the journey. something like Fallout did with the endings; you choose your origin, background skills etc at the char creation and you get a mini slide-show of your past when the game begins: you with your last bullet in your pistol and only determination and madness on your side. Sure there should be an actual "Main Quest" that goes on in the background but I don't really want is to be waggled at my face at every step. Just Imagine: I am a small time guy. I don't play politics or any big **** like modern guns or drugs. Sure I have to work like a dog and do a lot of favors but I am an independent operator. No one tries to take over me. I just want to get a living and some income for myself and some fun. Yea lots of fun and girls and booze. Maybe I want to take over a bar (hey I'm not an angel) or just kidnap that Red haired lass. Man she costs a lot Then on a tricky but just a small time job I happen to find some copies of documents / stuck in the middle of a shootout between some heavy guys / hack an important guys computer to find stuff to blackmail him and get some weird stuff instead / break into a big guys place to steal some dough only to find something really weird. Suddenly I am "persona very non-grata" to some big time heavy organization(s). What the hell is going on? I need to find some intel or I am toast.... And so my journey into the mess begins. I like this idea quite a bit. It has that quality of the insignificant hustler who steps into a big steaming pile of strange but believable misfortune. It'd make a pretty good movie too. But for all of us, there will come a point where it does matter, and it's gonna be like having a miniature suit-head shoving sticks up your butt all the time. - Tigranes
cronicler Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 Not really creative, I think i got most of the ideas from a few faintly remembered movies (B side probably). Still It doesn't have to be totally original or anything to be good. Just a tidy little story that gives us the foundations to start a solid story on and lots of nice little story hooks that we can follow to get to the bones of the story. We probably don't need stuff like GTA4's "take your friend to bowling" parts from modern sandbox games, but it would probably be nice if you could just be yourself instead of a "in your face and on every billboard" announcement that you are the guy that will save the world every minute. Didn't liked it when Overseer sent me back to hunt Cathedral in FO1, Didn't like it in FO2 and certainly didn't like it in the modern games. IG. We kick ass and not even take names.
entrerix Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 yeah i think the movie was star wars and the character was han solo. oh you need a lift, ok. what you need me to save the galaxy from the empire? i guess if i have to... Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
cronicler Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 TBH I was thinking about an English or American film about gangsters/underground but as you mentioned SW is appropriate too IG. We kick ass and not even take names.
entrerix Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Hi everyone. I, in echoing the sentiments of many others, would enjoy, and expect, FNV to be having the same gameplay as F3, but with some mild tweaks, like adding ammo weight, cleaning up VATS a little bit, and maybe including a few outlying areas that require map travel ala F1 and 2. The main difference I'm expecting is the inclusion of characters instead of cardboard cutouts. I would have preferred to have Van Buren, but frankly I'm just happy we're not getting BOS 2. who knows, maybe fallout will become such a successful brand name that we'll get another "side game" that is an above view strategy rpg complete with text box, superb dialogue, and real action points... wouldnt that be amusing in an ironic sort of way. but for this game: i basically want this to be what KOTOR 2 was to KOTOR 1. same gameplay, better characters and dialogue. Edited April 30, 2009 by entrerix Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
GreasyDogMeat Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 Heh, I wont have much to offer in suggestion about how I want Fallout New Vegas. My only real complaint about Fallout 3 were a few voice actors and a few sections of writing and plot points. Things that I'm quite sure Obsidian wont have a problem with. Sure, the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. could be improved etc, but I honestly didn't mind most of the changes. One example being lowering skill maxes down from 200 and 300 (F2) to 100. The numbers were just arbitrary so why not use a nice round number, easy to rationalize like the 1-10 for statistics. One of the many things I love about the Fallout special system it is easy to immediatly visualize what kind of character you have created, as opposed to almost every rpg on the market. Okay, I have a strength of 53. What does that mean? Whats the max? Is that like, really strong? Oh, wait, I'm barely doing any damage to those rats with my sword... so I guess 53 isn't all that great.
Gizmo Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) but for this game: i basically want this to be what KOTOR 2 was to KOTOR 1. same gameplay, better characters and dialogue.That was my sentiments about Fallout 3 to begin with. [FO3:FO2 ~Same Gameplay, better characters and dialogue.] *but with 3d assets. Essentially this >>> Edited April 30, 2009 by Gizmo
Tigranes Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 It's strange. Fallout is the perfect setting for a very personal and small-scale story about a guy in the Wasteland, without the need for regional/national organisations & factions being blown up, the world being saved and the ocean being de-radiated. Yet as we've seen with the latest BOS/Enclave love-fest, each game, to some degree, has fallen for that. I can understand how difficult it would be to make the game compelling without that stuff, at least in the traditional RPG narrative model, and the name 'New Vegas' screams 'New Reno' to me anyway, but... we can hope. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
TwinkieGorilla Posted April 30, 2009 Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) It's strange. Fallout is the perfect setting for a very personal and small-scale story about a guy in the Wasteland, without the need for regional/national organisations & factions being blown up which is, quite frankly, something FO1 executed perfectly. you were a confused lad/lassie walking out into the world for the first time, seeing how civilization above ground had been faring. you went from the sterile to the raw and it was exciting to meet people and see how humanity, when left to their own devices, eked a living in such a world. sure there were factions but damned if they didn't remain mysterious and impossible to join. in FO1 the BOS was more a "wtf are these nutty wankers all about?" than "OMG BIG GUNZZORS AWESOME I CAN HAS POWER ARMORS LET ME JOIN???" i certainly get why Bethie used up every last idea the original devs thought of, though. on the one hand they figured they'd be damned if they "went too far" from beloved canon of the hardcore fan-base (yet in doing so, hilariously stepped on their own feet...losing some major cred-points by not coming up with a single original idea) and on the other hand they must have thought "well, these are such great ideas...we don't have to spend the time coming up with our own ideas...these are tried and true. all we have to do is shine 'em up and introduce them to the "lol'sploshun" crowd and we've got some major greenbacks in our pocket. (and before the Bethie fanboys/girls say "oh, but Todd and Emil and Todd's grandma and his cat all love Fallout, they really wanted to do this game, etc" let me just say "hey. i freakin' love the Velvet Underground but i ain't out there in a VU cover-band. my own music is certainly influenced by them...but hell if i'm going to try and BE them." just because you like something doesn't mean you're the right person for the job. and i can't think of a better example to prove my point than FO3...it's just such an epic example of "yeah, errr...you guys kinda missed the point, eh?") Edited April 30, 2009 by TwinkieGorilla hopw roewur ne?
cronicler Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Actually it is the New Reno bit that gives me hope. Sure NR did not fit the story and setting (Could have if the story and background for it had been more fleshed out pointing out that it was also a trading hub etc...) BUT Gameplay wise it was the most complex and least buggy part of the game. You entered as an outsider with a grudge ( Sulik's Sister, Vic pointing you to "probably" hate slavers then the whole Vault City pains and then the raider caves that pointed Bishop as the head Honcho. ) You hit the scene playing one faction against other while doing some unrelated works on the side for cash and equipment (and making a name for yourself). After some long soldiering sections, You managed to get a gang war started and in the confusion you wiped out most of the vile hats. Sure there wasn't an option to take over the leftovers or anything but if you think about this for a moment you might see some GTA 4 here... 1999 game... And people accuse me of being stuck in 90s' titles and tought patterns IG. We kick ass and not even take names.
entrerix Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 My expectations for fallout 3 was an improved oblivion, which is exactly what I got. My expectations for FNV is an improved fallout 3 (with characters this time). I don't ever expect I'll see a game like the original fallout ever again. I'd be stoked if it happened, but I'm not expecting it. Same goes for Torment (though I thought the charactarization in KOTOR 2 was about halfway to Torment levels). I cant wait till we get some info. how about it JE? E3? Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Kjarista Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 [which is, quite frankly, something FO1 executed perfectly. you were a confused lad/lassie walking out into the world for the first time, seeing how civilization above ground had been faring. you went from the sterile to the raw and it was exciting to meet people and see how humanity, when left to their own devices, eked a living in such a world. sure there were factions but damned if they didn't remain mysterious and impossible to join. in FO1 the BOS was more a "wtf are these nutty wankers all about?" than "OMG BIG GUNZZORS AWESOME I CAN HAS POWER ARMORS LET ME JOIN???" Oh geez, give it a rest already. I bet you wet your pants when you saw those BOS with mini guns, and I bet you went down the glowing hole just so you could get them and PA. And just for the record, stepping out of Vault 101 and seeing for the first time the immense wasteland was one of the best game moments for me. Had one in Fallout too: The intro movie. As far as the dire feeling of wasteland, I think FO3 did taht better than the earlier 2 games.
Pidesco Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 And just for the record, stepping out of Vault 101 and seeing for the first time the immense wasteland was one of the best game moments for me. *achievement sound* "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend.
Kjarista Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 And just for the record, stepping out of Vault 101 and seeing for the first time the immense wasteland was one of the best game moments for me. *achievement sound* What, you like achievements better than anything else? That was one of the best visuals I've ever seen.
HoonDing Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 And just for the record, stepping out of Vault 101 and seeing for the first time the immense wasteland was one of the best game moments for me. *achievement sound* Followed by *level up!* and *Enclave radio signal found*? Hehe. Unfortunately for me, the epic gaming moment of leaving Vault 101 was spoiled as it was plain night time when I got out. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Mikhailian Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 I know I'm not the only one who felt that the achievement, karmic good & evil, and level up ka-ching sounds were a little bit jarring... But for all of us, there will come a point where it does matter, and it's gonna be like having a miniature suit-head shoving sticks up your butt all the time. - Tigranes
Kjarista Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 I know I'm not the only one who felt that the achievement, karmic good & evil, and level up ka-ching sounds were a little bit jarring... Ya, now I get it...that was unfortunate, but it still was one of the greatest gaming moments for me.
TwinkieGorilla Posted May 1, 2009 Posted May 1, 2009 Oh geez, give it a rest already. no. you got your wish in this regard on your home turf. fair's fair. I bet you wet your pants when you saw those BOS with mini guns, and I bet you went down the glowing hole just so you could get them and PA. no. but nice try, trolly. And just for the record, stepping out of Vault 101 and seeing for the first time the immense wasteland was one of the best game moments for me. Had one in Fallout too: The intro movie. sure, i thought that was pretty great. i was hella excited when i first started playing the game. everybody thought i'd be the first person to smash the DVD into itty bitty pieces, and here i was playing for 5 straight hours, skipping work, and loving it. ONLY PROBLEM...is that after Megaton, you've basically seen the game. that is to say, all you get from there on out is some fairly creative copypasta. if Bethie had kept me peaked the way i felt (dialogue not withstanding) from the intro and shortly past Megaton (i.e. if Megaton was Junktown and there was actually more to see on a larger scale from there) i'd have a bit less to complain about (however, none of this solves my greatest complaints (busted-ass SPECIAL and horrible dialogue)). As far as the dire feeling of wasteland, I think FO3 did taht better than the earlier 2 games. i disagree. you'll (knowing you) attempt to argue this, but it's such an obvious argument when one game is an FPS, iso games...like PnP games require the cooperation of the player's imagination and the games resources. personal preference? maybe. i guess i got into cRPG's before FPS existed, so it just never seemed necessary to the genre to me. anyway, i think they all did a pretty great job of this. i have no complaints or praises for either camp more than the other. hopw roewur ne?
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