NWN2: Storm of Zehir is out!

[Lare Kikkeli]

I'm just dissapointed. So very dissapointed

 

What else is so disappointing about SoZ?

 

I'm not provoking, I just really want to know what people think about it.

 

lack of polish, whole thing feels like a fan mod, has more bugs than features. i was expecting for a new IWD, when the whole game is basically overland map + short battles. no interesting areas and the main plot is a joke. add the fact that i have to buff before every encounter makes gameplay extremely tedious.

 

oh and newc, you can try and make fun of me as much as you want but the fact is that the overland map is broken in a way that removes a lot of tactical options from the game and makes a lot of spells completely useless.

[Wombat]

I don't know much of the game development but, considering cost-effect, it seems to me that, nowadays, it is already a bad management just the moment when a 3D D&D game is planned. I believe many of Troika or Black Isle people are talented but have to see good promises have been reduced to be rather sad results. If Dragon Age turns out to be huge success, I wonder if Bioware will give a part of the world and let them develop a role-playing game with a different tone, which shouldn't sound so unfamiliar. I know there are still many D&D fans but they are too demanding for the way today's computer industry works.

[Nightshape]

I don't know much of the game development but, considering cost-effect, it seems to me that, nowadays, it is already a bad management just the moment when a 3D D&D game is planned. I believe many of Troika or Black Isle people are talented but have to see good promises have been reduced to be rather sad results. If Dragon Age turns out to be huge success, I wonder if Bioware will give a part of the world and let them develop a role-playing game with a different tone, which shouldn't sound so unfamiliar. I know there are still many D&D fans but they are too demanding for the way today's computer industry works.

 

They're not too demanding but SoZ is to Aurora what IWD2 was to IE... The end of an engine where it's limitations, issues, and general problems are clearly evident.

[Morgoth]

Yeah, it's time that Obsidian licenses the DA engine and makes DA2!

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Yeah, it's time that Obsidian licenses the DA engine and makes DA2!

 

Dragon Age: Origins: Originer?

[newc0253]

Yeah, it's time that Obsidian licenses the DA engine and makes DA2!

Dragon Age: Origins: Originer?

i believe the sequels to Dragon Age: Origins will be Dragon Age: Heroes and Dragon Age: Villains, in which the main characters from the first game forget their motivations as characters, and engage in increasingly silly subplots involving time travel and eclipses.

[Zoma]

Query:

 

What does intimidate option for Parley exactly do? It says instill fear into enemies but so far it doesn't seem to cause any fear into any enemies I encountered, nor shows whether my intimidation is a success.

 

So anyone has any idea how intimidation works in parley?

[Meshugger]

Query:

 

What does intimidate option for Parley exactly do? It says instill fear into enemies but so far it doesn't seem to cause any fear into any enemies I encountered, nor shows whether my intimidation is a success.

 

So anyone has any idea how intimidation works in parley?

 

Same here. I have no idea whether it actually works or not.

[Deraldin]

Query:

 

What does intimidate option for Parley exactly do? It says instill fear into enemies but so far it doesn't seem to cause any fear into any enemies I encountered, nor shows whether my intimidation is a success.

 

So anyone has any idea how intimidation works in parley?

 

I could be mistaken but I think it removes a few enemies from the encounter if it's successful. I know that I used it on a couple groups of bandits and didn't have to fight any mages in those encounters, but did on several other occasions.

[Volourn]

"add the fact that i have to buff before every encounter makes gameplay extremely tedious."

 

You had to buff every encounter? That seems such a waste of effort. Just great cleave them. or heck, kill them with your mage using a bow. Works for me. *shrug*

 

 

Intimidate weakens enemies. They should have a 'glow' around them if it works for a few rounds (if they last that long, lol).

[Dark_Raven]

Buffs are a waste of time. Just go in and hack away.

[poolofpoo]

the game has been growing on me ever since i met Shylock and Barfunkel in a tavern

 

the trade-bug is kinda huge though, how did one get through? but i guess it's comforting to know that everything i've been sending back to my keep has been stored away...forever

[Marcus]

I'm just dissapointed. So very dissapointed

 

What else is so disappointing about SoZ?

 

I'm not provoking, I just really want to know what people think about it.

 

lack of polish, whole thing feels like a fan mod, has more bugs than features. i was expecting for a new IWD, when the whole game is basically overland map + short battles. no interesting areas and the main plot is a joke. add the fact that i have to buff before every encounter makes gameplay extremely tedious.

 

oh and newc, you can try and make fun of me as much as you want but the fact is that the overland map is broken in a way that removes a lot of tactical options from the game and makes a lot of spells completely useless.

History repeates itself?

 

a. Knights 2 > Is released to the public unfinished. Cut content was rushed for removal, and game elements were possibily-mistakenly edited out due to time restraints.

b. Neverwinter 2: OC & Neverwinter 2: MOTB > Is released to the public in a pretty good polished state. Until you get the first expansion pack, and a group of players experience broken campaigns of the original game. Did the game have problems in the first place, or did the expansion break the original game???

c. Neverwinter 2: SOZ: Groups of players claim it breaks the elements in the second expansion. I personally haven't played the MOTB with SOZ installed, so I can't 100% confirm this.

 

Lets look at the origins of Obsidian. If I remember my history correctly, did not some of these developers create "Vampire the Masqurade: Bloodlines"? Troika Games? Yep. Yes they did. Look at what happened to that game.

 

I guess the overall question is in plain sight. Was LucasArts or Obsidian responsible for the state of Knights 2? We haven't heard a single word about Knights 2 from LucasArts. I think Obsidian has a lot to anwer for, and we have four games that prove there is a collation. These are not seperate issues. This has to do with a company who doesn't know how to create polished games. Four games with four game breaking issues. They now have a track record. Like it or not.

Edited November 27, 2008 by Marcus

[Rosbjerg]

They also have a track record of making some of the most innovative stories. But yeah, I don't think you'll find anyone here who denies that these games came with bugs - I mean, most of us here are probably amongst those who played Obsidian's games the most, as such we probably also found and experienced more of the bugs than the average gamer..

 

That tells you alot too..

[Marcus]

They also have a track record of making some of the most innovative stories. But yeah, I don't think you'll find anyone here who denies that these games came with bugs - I mean, most of us here are probably amongst those who played Obsidian's games the most, as such we probably also found and experienced more of the bugs than the average gamer..

 

That tells you alot too..

You can have a great story, but what good is it if the novel is missing pages? Or, chapters are missing? Or, pages are ripped? Novel writters create great stories as well, but they are not in the game making business. Successful execution of game design and development is important to the overall gamming experience. What good is a story without a functioning game? Right?

 

I'm not saying we should bash Obsidian, but I'm saying we should look at their overall success in game exectution, functionality, and quality. Obsidian is interested in inovation, but it hinders their ability to create a sucessfully polished game. There is an underlying problem here.

Edited November 27, 2008 by Marcus

[Rosbjerg]

They also have a track record of making some of the most innovative stories. But yeah, I don't think you'll find anyone here who denies that these games came with bugs - I mean, most of us here are probably amongst those who played Obsidian's games the most, as such we probably also found and experienced more of the bugs than the average gamer..

 

That tells you alot too..

You can have a great story, but what good is it if the novel is missing pages? Or, chapters are missing? Or, pages are ripped? Novel writters create great stories as well, but they are not in the game making business. Successful execution of game design and development is important to the overall gamming experience. What good is a story without a functioning game? Right?

 

I'm not saying we should bash Obsidian, but I'm saying we should look at their overall success in game exectution, functionality, and quality. Obsidian is interested in inovation, but it hinders their ability to create a sucessfully polished game. There is an underlying problem here.

 

And I'm saying that you are preaching to the choir. I just think people around here focus more on the things Obsidian do well - becaue what is a polished and beautiful book, if the content of that book is the creative equivalent of toiletpaper?

 

Also, we are off topic. Why don't you make a thread about this issue, I'm sure you'll find that people agree with you.

[Nightshape]

They also have a track record of making some of the most innovative stories. But yeah, I don't think you'll find anyone here who denies that these games came with bugs - I mean, most of us here are probably amongst those who played Obsidian's games the most, as such we probably also found and experienced more of the bugs than the average gamer..

 

That tells you alot too..

You can have a great story, but what good is it if the novel is missing pages? Or, chapters are missing? Or, pages are ripped? Novel writters create great stories as well, but they are not in the game making business. Successful execution of game design and development is important to the overall gamming experience. What good is a story without a functioning game? Right?

 

I'm not saying we should bash Obsidian, but I'm saying we should look at their overall success in game exectution, functionality, and quality. Obsidian is interested in inovation, but it hinders their ability to create a sucessfully polished game. There is an underlying problem here.

 

The under laying problem is blatent, both Kotor 2 and NWN 2 + XP inherited a bloated codebase from bioware.

[Tigranes]

i believe the sequels to Dragon Age: Origins will be Dragon Age: Heroes and Dragon Age: Villains, in which the main characters from the first game forget their motivations as characters, and engage in increasingly silly subplots involving time travel and eclipses.

 

I'd bet money on that, yes. I'd also bet money that Origins will end with some ancient crap being awakened, beginning a massive war which changes the world, then there is that war in Heroes, and someone betrays the PC or something at the end of that, which ends in Villains where everything is postapocalyptic or whatever.

 

Ptoing.

 

Lets look at the origins of Obsidian. If I remember my history correctly, did not some of these developers create "Vampire the Masqurade: Bloodlines"? Troika Games? Yep. Yes they did. Look at what happened to that game.

 

Were any of Obsidian's founders working at Troika?

Does the video game industry have one of the highest turnover rates in the entertainment industry?

Is the video game industry also famous for a dearth of talent, which results in said talent being shared across companies?

 

Was LucasArts or Obsidian responsible for the state of Knights 2? We haven't heard a single word about Knights 2 from LucasArts.

 

The second sentence has nothing to do with the first, though. Is there a specific logic you are trying to put forward? LucasArts takes the blame on one issue, and that is forcing an early release of K2. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Obsidian does have something of a track record in buggy games now, but now they are releasing their new IPs with different engines, they have a good chance of fixing that. I think taking the decrepit Aurora was a calculated risk the company took, and it did pay off, overall.

[Nightshape]

Considering the humble beginnings of Obsidian, I think they've constantly as a company managed to go from strength to strength.

 

You have to remember that it wasn't so long ago that Obsidian were just a bunch of guys who'd worked togeather.

 

As critical as I may be of Bioware's technology, Bioware have certainly helped Obsidian get off the ground, but most of the credit belongs in the lap of Feargus and co...

[Gorgon]

Anyone know why my Eldrich Knight can't use the prestige armor. Do I need at least one level in fighter.

[Wombat]

Off Topic

Some people seem to be thinking of KotORII but, in my case, I only meant the possibility of sharing the engine with totally different world setting or a different part of the world setting like Fallouts, Planescape:Torment and Icewind Dales. There are some Bioware/Obsidian fanbo/galism, which itself proves that the targeted players are different. Personally, I'd like to have a game with Bioware's overall technical quality and Obsidian's story/dialog quality.

 

Alternatively, as I wrote above giving an example of Valkyria Chronicles, Obsidian might search for more moderate but effective 2D/3D hybrid. I admit that VC's success is based on Japanese anime game popularity to some extent, though. I'll wait to see till Alpha Protocol and "Aliens RPG" but I think adjusting technologies from movie industry is quite hard for smaller companies. Even the majority may rather prefer stylish 2D products to unpolished 3D ones.

 

As a side note, I wonder if there is Obsidian connection to CD projekt since I think European market is still interested in text-heavy games compared with American market. I admit success in the huge American market is quite vital, though. CD project seem to be quite good at marketing and their still-not-so-bug-free "enhanced" edition seems to have been sold well. This is probably not a good comparison but how much money did Black Isle make with Trials of the Luremaster?

 

PS I hope the mess left from the massive bubble wouldn't hit Obsidian and, of course, our lives hard.

[Volourn]

"Considering the humble beginnings of Obsidian"

 

What humble beginnings? You mean being able to make KOTOR2, and NWN2 as their first games? Those arne't humble beginnings. Espicially, since the Obsidian founders are not exactly rookies. Humble beginnings would be BIO coming from nowhere as ex doctors and medical software developers to now becoming one of the major RPG developers. That's not insulting obsidian. That's just fact.

 

 

"LucasArts takes the blame on one issue, and that is forcing an early release of K2."

 

They did no such thing. from the momemnt KOTOR2 was announced, they were shooting for a Christmas release. Then it got switch to Februaryish then moved back. *shrug*

[Zoma]

Query:

 

What does intimidate option for Parley exactly do? It says instill fear into enemies but so far it doesn't seem to cause any fear into any enemies I encountered, nor shows whether my intimidation is a success.

 

So anyone has any idea how intimidation works in parley?

 

I could be mistaken but I think it removes a few enemies from the encounter if it's successful. I know that I used it on a couple groups of bandits and didn't have to fight any mages in those encounters, but did on several other occasions.

 

Isn't that the purpose of diplomacy parley though? Diplomacy being meant to reduce the number of enemies in the encounter.

[Deraldin]

Query:

 

What does intimidate option for Parley exactly do? It says instill fear into enemies but so far it doesn't seem to cause any fear into any enemies I encountered, nor shows whether my intimidation is a success.

 

So anyone has any idea how intimidation works in parley?

 

I could be mistaken but I think it removes a few enemies from the encounter if it's successful. I know that I used it on a couple groups of bandits and didn't have to fight any mages in those encounters, but did on several other occasions.

 

Isn't that the purpose of diplomacy parley though? Diplomacy being meant to reduce the number of enemies in the encounter.

 

Isn't diplomacy only used to reduce the bribe money you have to pay to get out of the fight altogether?

[Volourn]

Yup. Diplomacy = bribery