What are you playing now?

[fastpunk]

I'm playing good old Thief: The Dark Project. It didn't age a bit and it's been 11 years since it was released. Plus, the atmosphere is thick enough to cut with a knife. Mucho respect to Looking Glass for their groundbreaking work.

[Hurlshort]

I wouldn't call Doom groundbreaking. It was great fun, of course, but it wasn't particularly new or original.

 

I couldn't disagree more. Doom created the FPS market. Before Doom, you had a couple shareware titles that raked in a few bucks. Doom was a huge financial success in a market dominated by adventure games.

[Moatilliatta]

Not to mention that it was a technological marvel for the time, if I remember correctly.

[Dark_Raven]

Kotor 1. Too be lightside or darkside? So far I am grayside.

[taks]

Not to mention that it was a technological marvel for the time, if I remember correctly.

yeah. according to wiki, it was "... widely recognized for pioneering immersive 3D graphics, networked multiplayer gaming on the PC platform, and support for custom expansions (WADs)."

 

groundbreaking is an understatement, if anything.

 

taks

[Tale]

Not to mention that it was a technological marvel for the time, if I remember correctly.

yeah. according to wiki, it was "... widely recognized for pioneering immersive 3D graphics, networked multiplayer gaming on the PC platform, and support for custom expansions (WADs)."

 

groundbreaking is an understatement, if anything.

 

taks

The Aliens TC was incredible.

 

I also have fond memories of running around with Imps and zombie soldiers replaced with Beavis & Butthead and the Cacodemon replaced by Bill Clinton's head.

[Walsingham]

Company of Heroes. I've somewhat rediscovered it lately, and managed to tackle some of my lameness issues. Basically excessive timidity. PM me if anyone fancies a game.

[Pidesco]

As far as I can recall, Doom didn't do anything that wasn't done in Wolf3D before, apart from multiplayer. The difference was in the scale of its success.

 

Its graphics certainly weren't pioneering, except in the sense that the game had relatively low hardware requirements.

 

Ultima Underworld had a much more feature rich 3D engine than Doom, even if it ran like ass.

[Moatilliatta]

Are you serious?

 

Doom had such EXTREME next-gen things as (taken from wikipedia):

• Height differences (all rooms in Wolfenstein 3D have the same height)
  
• Non-perpendicular walls (all walls in Wolfenstein 3D run along a rectangular grid)
  
• Swaying of the weapon (in Wolfenstein 3D the arms stay fixed in front in the screen no matter what the character does), this gives the impression of fluidity while walking or running
  
• Full texture mapping of all surfaces (in Wolfenstein 3D, floors and ceilings are not texture mapped)
  
• Varying light levels (all areas in Wolfenstein 3D are fully lit at the same brightness). While contributing to the game's visual authenticity by allowing effects such as highlights and shadows, this perhaps most importantly added to the game's atmosphere and gameplay; the use of darkness as a means of frightening or confusing the player was an unseen element in games released prior to Doom.
  

 

I don't know how many of those things were pioneered by Doom but to say that it was technologically the same as Wolf3D except with multiplayer has no bearing at all.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

In my opinion John Carmack's engine is the reason Doom could be considered revolutionary.

[taks]

As far as I can recall, Doom didn't do anything that wasn't done in Wolf3D before, apart from multiplayer. The difference was in the scale of its success.

 

Its graphics certainly weren't pioneering, except in the sense that the game had relatively low hardware requirements.

 

Ultima Underworld had a much more feature rich 3D engine than Doom, even if it ran like ass.

"as far as i can recall" == "i don't know but i'll talk like i do anyway."

 

a quick check at the wiki dispels 99% of these statements. i'm not sure what "feature rich" means, but it certainly was not used nearly as much as the doom engine, nor was it given any credit other than being rather advanced for 1992.

 

taks

[Pidesco]

Are you serious?

 

Doom had such EXTREME next-gen things as (taken from wikipedia):

• Height differences (all rooms in Wolfenstein 3D have the same height)
  
• Non-perpendicular walls (all walls in Wolfenstein 3D run along a rectangular grid)
  
• Swaying of the weapon (in Wolfenstein 3D the arms stay fixed in front in the screen no matter what the character does), this gives the impression of fluidity while walking or running
  
• Full texture mapping of all surfaces (in Wolfenstein 3D, floors and ceilings are not texture mapped)
  
• Varying light levels (all areas in Wolfenstein 3D are fully lit at the same brightness). While contributing to the game's visual authenticity by allowing effects such as highlights and shadows, this perhaps most importantly added to the game's atmosphere and gameplay; the use of darkness as a means of frightening or confusing the player was an unseen element in games released prior to Doom.
  

 

I don't know how many of those things were pioneered by Doom but to say that it was technologically the same as Wolf3D except with multiplayer has no bearing at all.

 

 

I should stress that in the comparison with Wolf3D I was talking about gameplay. Anyway, all those things on the wikipedia list had been seen before in Ultima Underworld.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Anyway, all those things on the wikipedia list had been seen before in Ultima Underworld.

 

O RLY?

[Moatilliatta]

I should stress that in the comparison with Wolf3D I was talking about gameplay. Anyway, all those things on the wikipedia list had been seen before in Ultima Underworld.

Noone said anything about gamplay except Hurlshot who correctly atributed the birth of the FPS genre to Doom.

 

I'm personally not clever enough to say whether Doom did anything new compared to ultima underworld or how its gameplay was new and innovative.

[taks]

I should stress that in the comparison with Wolf3D I was talking about gameplay.

"Doom didn't do anything that wasn't done in Wolf3D before, apart from multiplayer."

uh huh.

 

Anyway, all those things on the wikipedia list had been seen before in Ultima Underworld.

doom was miles ahead of ultima underworld, which is why it had such great success. in spite of being released on shareware, it still managed to garner over a million copies sold (10 million shareware versions). you can apply subjective assessments all you want, but technologically, id won the day.

 

taks

[Pidesco]

Subjective? Ultima Underworld had fully textured worlds, height differences, different light levels, non perpendicular walls, and an actual 3D world(unlike Doom). I don't think it had weapon swaying.

 

Also, Doom didn't start the FPS genre, Wolf3D did.

 

The reasons Doom was more successful than UW were that it had much tamer system requirements and the gameplay was much, much simpler. Doom didn't have dialogue or a complex magic system. It was all about accessibility, which is something Ultima Underworld didn't really have.

[Nightshape]

Not to mention that it was a technological marvel for the time, if I remember correctly.

yeah. according to wiki, it was "... widely recognized for pioneering immersive 3D graphics, networked multiplayer gaming on the PC platform, and support for custom expansions (WADs)."

 

groundbreaking is an understatement, if anything.

 

taks

ultima underworld used true 3d, it was far superior to doom in terms of technology. Doom on the other hand is 2d. That may sound stupid to some people as the result looks 3d, the effect is caused through bitmap manipulation.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Yeah, the objects rotated to make it appear 3d.

[Hurlshort]

Also, Doom didn't start the FPS genre, Wolf3D did.

 

As I said earlier, it was the financial catalyst to the genre. Wolf3D was great, but it didn't sell millions. There were also FPS games before Wolf3D, but none achieved any recognizable fame.

 

The guys at id all bought Ferrari's after Doom hit it big (ok, maybe not all, but I remember two of them did!.) It raked in major moolah for them. Every genre needs a financial catalyst. Sure, Dune II might be the first RTS game, but Command and Conquer kicked the genre into the big time.

[Nightshape]

Yeah, the objects rotated to make it appear 3d.

 

The level representations are 2D and place upon a plane. it's through the use of trickery and BSP techniques that the final result is constructed.

 

edit: The link explains it better than I was doing... regardless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doom_engine

 

Ultima Underworld used 3D textured polygons in the same kind of vain as we're used to now. It was more akin to what we see now than Doom ever was.

 

Doom is a technological marval from many perspectives, it faked 3D that well. In terms of the more advanced and forward thinking technology it's impossible not to realise that UW was more a forerunner to quake technologically than doom was.

 

That's said it's all gravy really.

Edited September 16, 2008 by Nightshape

[taks]

ultima underworld used true 3d, it was far superior to doom in terms of technology. Doom on the other hand is 2d. That may sound stupid to some people as the result looks 3d, the effect is caused through bitmap manipulation.

i realize this, but that does not make UU superior in any way. what carmack did was genius, and set the stage for the future.

 

taks

[Nightshape]

ultima underworld used true 3d, it was far superior to doom in terms of technology. Doom on the other hand is 2d. That may sound stupid to some people as the result looks 3d, the effect is caused through bitmap manipulation.

i realize this, but that does not make UU superior in any way. what carmack did was genius, and set the stage for the future.

 

taks

 

I don't think anyone is saying that Carmack didn't commit an act of genius, in terms of his approch, and the development of his approch he did just that.

 

The problem is that Carmack managed to fake it so it'd run on lower end machines, hence limitations of the engine.

 

UW engine produced a superior result, which came at a superior cost.

 

BOTH deserve kudos, but the reasons for that kudos are different.

[Rosbjerg]

Playing a cool multiplayer game in Hearts of Iron 2.

 

We're 3 and playing the Axis powers.

 

But I think we are gonna try a different approach. Going Germany, USSR and USA - and then aiming for a Cold War between the three.

[Moatilliatta]

Playing X-COM on my third ufo-crash mission and only lost 3 men.

 

I'm really gonna recomend the steam version of X-Com 1 as it holds up well today even if its interface is a thing of nightmares.

[Slowtrain]

XCOM is fab.

 

I'm replaying WIz 8 at the moment. I've moved it up to one of my top 5 games of all time. It really is great.