Dragon Age

[Hurlshort]

I didn't know Obsidian posters were supposed to hate on Bioware titles. I'll be sure to amend my posts.

 

Seriously though, ME was pretty well recieved on these forums.

[Dark_Raven]

Not really. ME and Bio had all sorts of hatin coming their way when they had that lame copy protection thingy.

 

Lets hope that DA doesn't sink back into that lameness.

[Deraldin]

Not really. ME and Bio had all sorts of hatin coming their way when they had that lame copy protection thingy.

 

Lets hope that DA doesn't sink back into that lameness.

 

Yes, but other than the copy protection, the game itself was well received.

[Hurlshort]

Yep, copy protection really has nothing to do with the game. Plus quite a few folks played ME on the 360.

[Kaftan Barlast]

I didn't know Obsidian posters were supposed to hate on Bioware titles. I'll be sure to amend my posts.

 

Seriously though, ME was pretty well recieved on these forums.

 

 

Thats because ME was an awesome game in an interesting setting, not just some blotch of fantasy smudge that came out 4 years too late. Obsidian has grown out of that dodgy bussiness and are working on some titles that seem very cool, and its a damn shame that Bioware hasnt don the same by throwing DA in the bin and moving on.

[newc0253]

I'm surprised at how negative some of the posts are in this thread.

really, why?

 

this ain't the Bio boards, it's okay to make fun of Bio here.

 

We know pretty little about the game

what do you mean 'we', paleface? from reading this thread, i've discovered that Dragon Age will have ruins!

 

actual no fooling ruins!

 

whoda thunk it?

 

Between Fallout 2 and Dragon Age, we've got a pretty promising future too.

wait, somebody made a Fallout 2? i can't wait to play it!

 

i just hope they keep true to the original. actually, i wouldn't mind if they changed the setting from post-apocalyptic wasteland to bronze age greece, and i also wouldn't mind if it became a PvP griefer game instead of a CRPG.

 

but they better have kept it turn-based with an isometric view, otherwise the entire game will be ruined!

Edited July 6, 2008 by newc0253

[newc0253]

One example is that we do *know* what the classes will be.

you have a full class list for DA?

 

or just the starting 3?

 

yeah, thought as much.

[Tigranes]

I'm quite surprised at all the vitriol. I mean, I can't blame people for being skeptical of a game that has spent 4 years in pseudo-hype-no-info-simmering-pot, but what really is there to hate? Do you really hate anything in any fantasy setting? Really? From the very limited information/promises we have available, I think its quite very clear that they are trying to distance themselves from D&D / FR / LOTR style settings. Whether their 'alternaative' turns out to be any fresher remains unknown, but they are very consciously fronting this different fantasy setting, with elements that a lot of people on this board have wanted (low magic, distinct cultures, backgrounds, customisation within classes, politics, etc).

 

Thats because ME was an awesome game in an interesting setting, not just some blotch of fantasy smudge that came out 4 years too late.

 

Sorry Kaftan, but you aren't doing yourself any favours with this one. Isn't it all about delivery? Mass Effect's setting doesnt' really interest me at all, it feels to me like generic B-grade sci-fi. Now that's subjective and you can argue that, but that's fine. What I'm saying is, sci-fi / futuristic settings are just as overdone and cliche as fantasy ones. It depends on your exact execution, variations within a type, etc. Saying anything is better than fantasy, even sci-fi, is like saying, uh, anything's better than another Bourne, why can't we have another Bond?

[Volourn]

ME is awesome. But, fantasy will always be my favroite. DWARVES FOREVER!

 

 

Newc: there ar eonly 3 classes. the others are 'resitge class'es that only unlock later on. You can't choose them in the usual way.

 

You have 3 choices - Fighter-Caster-Rogue. Period.

 

Again, tons of info to be had. Open your eyes, and don't be tricked by your ignorance.

[newc0253]

I'm quite surprised at all the vitriol. I mean, I can't blame people for being skeptical of a game that has spent 4 years in pseudo-hype-no-info-simmering-pot, but what really is there to hate?

*shrug* who said anything about hating the game itself?

 

i'm just mocking Bio's info strategy.

[newc0253]

Newc: there ar eonly 3 classes. the others are 'resitge class'es that only unlock later on. You can't choose them in the usual way.

so you know what the 'prestige' classes are then?

 

oh, you don't.

 

in other words, you don't know the full class list, like i originally asked?

 

yeah, thought so.

[Volourn]

Actually, I do know all the classes. I don't know the PRESTIGE classes. HUGE difference.

[aries101]

Yes, we know that Dragon Age will be taken place in continent (I think?) called Fereldern. We also know that you can choose your origin story and magic is being mana based.

 

We also know that if you choose to start as a dwarf, or an elf, or a mage, you will start in the dwarven village, the elven village or the mage's village (probably a tower or something). The reason being magic being mana based is simply because magic in Dragon Age is low magic - not the high magic from D&D where every Tom, Joe & Harry seem to know a few spells. Magic in Dragon Age is limited to (from what I remember) mages. Only mages can use magic in Dragon Age. They do this by drawing from nature's surroundings creating fire(balls), drawring from the ether etc. when they do magic. Much more in tune with magic in Lord of The Rings I find, than with the magic used in D&D today.

 

We also know that dwarfes live underground and that elves life in tree-villages. We also know that Bioware's (or maybe David gaider's?) take on say elves are not the high fantay class elves, maybe more in line with the elves in the witcher?? nor are the zombies & orcs going to act like the orcs & zombies in your typical D&D game. We also know that Dragons are a force of nature --- something very few people have actually seen - while many may heard of it. And in a rather lenghty post, David Gaider talked about why this age (in DA) was named Dragon Age, something about 'a chantry' that looked for signs and then gave the age an appropriate name.

 

I'm as exited as the next one for July 9th....maybe we finally get a release date?? or a trailer or something??

 

I'm just curious why Bioware deiced to reveal this on the 9th of July....?? Did they use a clairvyoant to set the date? What's so special about July 9th? Other than it is a wednesday??

Edited July 6, 2008 by aries101

[RangerSG]

I'm quite surprised at all the vitriol. I mean, I can't blame people for being skeptical of a game that has spent 4 years in pseudo-hype-no-info-simmering-pot, but what really is there to hate? Do you really hate anything in any fantasy setting? Really? From the very limited information/promises we have available, I think its quite very clear that they are trying to distance themselves from D&D / FR / LOTR style settings. Whether their 'alternaative' turns out to be any fresher remains unknown, but they are very consciously fronting this different fantasy setting, with elements that a lot of people on this board have wanted (low magic, distinct cultures, backgrounds, customisation within classes, politics, etc).

...

 

Agreed. I think they never should've announced the game before they got serious with it's development. But from everything they've said, they're distinctly moving to a world considerably different from D&D. They've pointed at Song of Ice and Fire for influence on it, which I think is a good thing. Or at least was when they first brought up the game and Martin didn't go into his; "I'll release a book every 5 yrs" funk. Distinct cultures, languages, religion playing a significant influence without divine magic.

 

As for releasing the prestige classes, why in the world would they do that until it's ready? When did Obsidian release the PRCs for MoTB? Almost right before release. And that's for a KNOWN ruleset. Why would Bio tip it's hand on what the world is like by including material that could then be stolen before the game comes out? Sorry, that's an absurd gripe.

 

As for the whole "it's fantasy RPG, it must be crap" thing. Obsidian still does fantasy RPGs, so how is it they're different? Or is SoZ a sci fi game set in the FR? Bottom line, just because you don't like the genre doesn't mean the product is poor. That is YOUR hang-up, not the company's. I hate first person shooters, but that doesn't make Halo or games of that ilk bad games. It just means I will never buy them. If you have a hangup on something, intruding into the discussion just to try to foist that on everyone else is downright disrespectful.

[Gorth]

Sounds a bit like Dragonlance between The Cataclysm and Dragons of Autumn Twilight. Mass Effect didn't appeal to me. Still, room for cautious optimism.

[Hurlshort]

I'm as exited as the next one for July 9th....maybe we finally get a release date?? or a trailer or something??

 

I'm just curious why Bioware deiced to reveal this on the 9th of July....?? Did they use a clairvyoant to set the date? What's so special about July 9th? Other than it is a wednesday??

 

It's almost E3, so it's probably part of their preparation for the show. E3 starts on July 14th. This is just that time of year, I suppose.

 

It definitely doesn't have anything to do with the Diablo 3 announcement. Bioware has likely been planning this for months, just as Blizzard spent months preparing to showcase Diablo 3.

[newc0253]

We also know that dwarfes live underground and that elves life in tree-villages.

well, there's a shocker!

 

thank goodness Bio is taking such big risks.

[newc0253]

It definitely doesn't have anything to do with the Diablo 3 announcement.

definitely?

 

you know that fo sho, huh?

 

yes, i'm sure Bio has been planning this marketing push for months (possibly even years), and that E3 is also a huge factor. but that don't mean that Bio ain't keeping a close eye on Blizzard.

 

after all, Diablo 2 and Baldur's Gate 2 were released within 3 months of one another in 2000. you think it's pure coincidence that, 8 years later & within days of Diablo 3 being announced, we're suddenly getting a whole lot more info on the so-called spiritual successor to BG2?

Edited July 6, 2008 by newc0253

[Volourn]

"yes, i'm sure Bio has been planning this marketing push for months (possibly even years), and that E3 is also a huge factor. but that don't mean that Bio ain't keeping a close eye on Blizzard."

 

I doubt they are worried about what Blizaard does in the sense it won't effect their plans all that much.

 

 

 

"after all, Diablo 2 and Baldur's Gate 2 were released within 3 months of one another in 2000. you think it's pure coincidence that, 8 years later & within days of Diablo 3 being announced, we're suddenly getting a whole lot more info on the so-called spiritual successor to BG2?"

 

Irrelevant. I'm sure they pay attention to Blizzard/D3 just like they would any other; but I seriosuly doubt it effects when theyannounce stuff about DA.

 

Afterall, EA had announced DA impending release early-mid next year BEFORE the D3 announcement. And, E3 is coming up. That's why we're about to get more push in the press - the game is gonna be released about a year from now. It's time to pimp it to the mainstream, and not just the interent geeks of the world who care about stuff like BIO or BIS or Blizzard or Bethesda or other such nonsense.

 

And, it's not really the 'so called spiritual successor to BG2' as you put it. More of your igorance showing. It's a spiritual successor to to multiple BIO games including BG2, NWN, and KOTOR. It also doesn't mean 'copy of' either.

 

If you actually read what the BIO guys say, you'd know this... just like a bunch of other DA info. L0L

 

 

R00fles!

[newc0253]

Irrelevant. I'm sure they pay attention to Blizzard/D3 just like they would any other; but I seriosuly doubt it effects when theyannounce stuff about DA.

oh, sure.

 

p.s. i have a bridge on the river thames for sale. interested?

 

And, it's not really the 'so called spiritual successor to BG2' as you put it.

really? then why did Ray Muzyka say to IGN that "Dragon Age is the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate."?

 

If you actually read what the BIO guys say, you'd know this

indeed.

Edited July 6, 2008 by newc0253

[Volourn]

Dave Gaider wrote: "This is one of those neat phrases that marketing likes to pretend isn't misunderstood by the fans. There's quite a few:

 

What we say: "This game is the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2, NWN and KotOR."

What the fan hears: "This game will be exactly like Baldur's Gate 2. With NWN's toolset. Yay!"

 

 

Game over, MAN, game over.

 

P.S. Do a quick search you'll find a BUNCH of posts and threads talking about what BIO means when they 'spiritual successor' and what games they refer to when saying it.

 

'Tis a shame you ignore the information so eaisly at your fingertips.

Edited July 6, 2008 by Volourn

[Kaftan Barlast]

Sorry Kaftan, but you aren't doing yourself any favours with this one. Isn't it all about delivery? Mass Effect's setting doesnt' really interest me at all, it feels to me like generic B-grade sci-fi. Now that's subjective and you can argue that, but that's fine. What I'm saying is, sci-fi / futuristic settings are just as overdone and cliche as fantasy ones. It depends on your exact execution, variations within a type, etc. Saying anything is better than fantasy, even sci-fi, is like saying, uh, anything's better than another Bourne, why can't we have another Bond?

 

 

Sure. Every genre comes with its own batch of clich

[newc0253]

What we say: "This game is the spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate 2, NWN and KotOR."

What the fan hears: "This game will be exactly like Baldur's Gate 2. With NWN's toolset. Yay!"

*yawn* great, except i never said anything about DA being 'exactly like' BG.

 

i simply said that DA was the 'so-called spiritual successor' to BG.

 

to which you said 'not really'.

 

until i provided you with the direct quote from Muzyka...

 

'Tis a shame you ignore the information so eaisly at your fingertips.

and it's a shame you can't read.

Edited July 6, 2008 by newc0253

[Monte Carlo]

My two copper pieces.

 

A long time ago, on the Bio forums, I had the occasional minor online spat with Dave Gaider over NWN. He was always polite, fought his corner and knew what he wanted to do. Furthermore, he authored some very decent BG2/ToB mod content in his own time for the fans. He loves the genre. Despite my numerous problems with Bioware (I haven't bought anything of theirs since KotOR for the XBox, and I hated that a bunch), I actually think Dragon Age is going to be worth the price of admission.

 

Why?

 

Well, I think Gaider is Bioware's conscience. Whilst Greg and Ray happily took the route they took (more power to their elbows, BTW, I might not enjoy the product but I admire their success), I envison Dave sat on their shoulder whispering "you are only human" and imploring them to keep the magic alive and remember what got them to where they are now. It's like going to a gig where your favourite band understand how important it is to play, masterfully, all those old tunes as well as the new ones. Perhaps it is the case that, down in the broom cupboard, Bioware let Crazy Dave tinker away at his meisterwerk, safe in the knowledge that the latest no-brainer console dreck will fund any loss.

 

As for the DA forum, well Gaider kinda scotches every mainstream request from fans. Which is good. It sounds like it's grim, low-magic, Fafhrd and Grey Mouser style fantasy (which I like. A lot). I suspect the game might slosh over into too-much-damn-background territory and disappear up it's own arse a bit. But I have no doubt that it's all being done with love and good intentions. And it will be interesting.

 

So good luck to Bioware and Dave. I look forward, with interest, to see what will happen. I can only wonder what engine they've got, though, and what this game will look like. It must look better than the re-mastered NWN2 with the Betrayer improvements, at least. In any case, I'll be buying it just to see what on earth almost five years of development produces!

 

Cheers

MC

[RangerSG]

My two copper pieces.

 

A long time ago, on the Bio forums, I had the occasional minor online spat with Dave Gaider over NWN. He was always polite, fought his corner and knew what he wanted to do. Furthermore, he authored some very decent BG2/ToB mod content in his own time for the fans. He loves the genre. Despite my numerous problems with Bioware (I haven't bought anything of theirs since KotOR for the XBox, and I hated that a bunch), I actually think Dragon Age is going to be worth the price of admission.

 

Why?

 

Well, I think Gaider is Bioware's conscience. Whilst Greg and Ray happily took the route they took (more power to their elbows, BTW, I might not enjoy the product but I admire their success), I envison Dave sat on their shoulder whispering "you are only human" and imploring them to keep the magic alive and remember what got them to where they are now. It's like going to a gig where your favourite band understand how important it is to play, masterfully, all those old tunes as well as the new ones. Perhaps it is the case that, down in the broom cupboard, Bioware let Crazy Dave tinker away at his meisterwerk, safe in the knowledge that the latest no-brainer console dreck will fund any loss.

 

As for the DA forum, well Gaider kinda scotches every mainstream request from fans. Which is good. It sounds like it's grim, low-magic, Fafhrd and Grey Mouser style fantasy (which I like. A lot). I suspect the game might slosh over into too-much-damn-background territory and disappear up it's own arse a bit. But I have no doubt that it's all being done with love and good intentions. And it will be interesting.

 

So good luck to Bioware and Dave. I look forward, with interest, to see what will happen. I can only wonder what engine they've got, though, and what this game will look like. It must look better than the re-mastered NWN2 with the Betrayer improvements, at least. In any case, I'll be buying it just to see what on earth almost five years of development produces!

 

Cheers

MC

 

I agree about Gaider entirely. And what you say about Bioware's execs having played a double game with their whole "we're indie/no we're not" game. But Gaider is as good at making a quality RPG as anyone. And it's his involvement in this, and his keeping this a grim, low-magic fantasy that intrigues me too. You cited Fafhrd, I could throw the Black Company and ASoIaF in there too. And I've seen both of those discussed in their forums favorably by him. So I'm confident those are resonating somewhere in this.

 

Kaftan,

 

Once again, that's your hangup. And it didn't answer anything I said. Every genre has it's conventions. If you don't like them, stay clear of them. Saying you've "outgrown" them is at best thoughtless, at worst egotistical. Some of the most intelligent authors in literature write in fantasy today. Steven Erickson and R. Scott Bakker are two of them. You can use the conventions of a genre without coming off as cliche. So to say you're more "mature" or intelligent than people with multiple graduate degrees comes off as hollow to me. There's few works in contemporary literature as darkly humorous as Glen Cook's Black Company. Nothing immature about the genre at all. And once again, in gaming terms, First Person Shooters annoy me, and I think they're good for nothing but blowing off a few minutes steam in mindless aggression. But that doesn't mean I go onto a Halo or Half-life thread and talk crap about it.