Mass Effect PC gone Gold

[skuld1]

Piracy will hit the consoles eventually.

 

Piracy has been on the consoles for awhile, but several things make it much more of a hassle. I think most people know the various reasons; not sure if it's appropriate to bring them up here.

[Xard]

It seems that, according to some on this board and others on various gaming boards:

 

-SecuROM = BAD

-Online activation = BAD

-Limiting installs per key to x different hardware configurations = BAD

-Apparently, even making widespread busts of pirates seems to = BAD

 

Apparently, the only thing some folks will accept is the laughably-easy-to-defeat CD-KEY. Anything beyond that and the bitching and moaning ensues, with laughable stories about how copy protection scheme y destroyed their rigs (yeah, sure... AFAIK, no one collected on Starforce's $1000 challenge to prove that their software breaks hardware, and Starforce is probably the most intrusive scheme out there).

 

No one should be surprised if PC gaming really dries up in the next few years. We are sending a loud and clear message to developers: "We do not accept your attempts at curbing illegal use." For now, they listen and tone down the protection. Eventually, they will likely just abandon the PC market (exceptions for MMOs and casual titles) and go over to consoles, where piracy is less of an issue.

 

Yeah, Blizzard has done so badly without those

[karka]

If games with such ridiculous DRM systems sell well, 5 years later we will have game collections that we can't play anymore.

[Hurlshort]

Yeah, Blizzard has done so badly without those

 

Actually, WoW has the most rigorous DRM process of them all.

[Xard]

Yeah, Blizzard has done so badly without those

 

Actually, WoW has the most rigorous DRM process of them all.

 

I talked about pre-WoW era as I have never played WoW

 

But it is telling how easy it is to get cracked WoW and be able to play the game just fine

[alanschu]

Having a single player game that forces you to go online just to say "I got a legit copy, looky" that only gives you three installs in the entire life time of the game makes you smile? That seems to be a strange thing to smile at, but whatever trips your trigger, Alan.

 

I sure as **** don't feel like a criminal for doing it. Not any more than walking into a bank and having security cameras watching me.

[alanschu]

Yeah, Blizzard has done so badly without those

 

Any multiplayer game can be satisfied with CD-Key checks, because in that case a server goes and treats you like a criminal by ensuring that you actually bought the game and thus have a valid CD Key.

 

 

 

Sure, if you really want you can WoW on a pirate server, which is not really the experience that many people are looking for. Same goes with things like Diablo II and Starcraft. Games with heavy duty MP components.

Edited May 18, 2008 by alanschu

[Meshugger]

It seems that, according to some on this board and others on various gaming boards:

 

-SecuROM = BAD

-Online activation = BAD

-Limiting installs per key to x different hardware configurations = BAD

-Apparently, even making widespread busts of pirates seems to = BAD

 

Apparently, the only thing some folks will accept is the laughably-easy-to-defeat CD-KEY. Anything beyond that and the bitching and moaning ensues, with laughable stories about how copy protection scheme y destroyed their rigs (yeah, sure... AFAIK, no one collected on Starforce's $1000 challenge to prove that their software breaks hardware, and Starforce is probably the most intrusive scheme out there).

 

No one should be surprised if PC gaming really dries up in the next few years. We are sending a loud and clear message to developers: "We do not accept your attempts at curbing illegal use." For now, they listen and tone down the protection. Eventually, they will likely just abandon the PC market (exceptions for MMOs and casual titles) and go over to consoles, where piracy is less of an issue.

 

PC Gaming suffers from the distributor's own incompetence on getting more gamers to buy their games. Developers have little to say on copy-protection matters. As we all know, piracy has already destroyed the music and movie industry, with thousands unemployed and studios shut down, leaving only smaller and unknown distributors alive....barely

 

Btw, here is some information for a tracker, from a source i refuse to give. But as you can see, the stats for the amount seeds for Xbox 360, with an install base of ~19 million. And lower, you see the current stats on the PC platform, which has a much, much larger install base than the Xbox 360. This is by no means a repesentational for all piracy, but you see the trend.

 

Xbox 360

 

Game Platform Seeds Leechers

Grand Theft Auto IV NTSC XBOX360 657 15

Grand Theft Auto IV MULTI5 PAL XBox 360 626 12

The Chronicles of Narnia Prince Caspian XBox 360 254 12

 

PC

 

Assassins Creed REPACKRELOADED in Windows 1214 5809

Assassins Creed REPACK-RELOADED in Windows 982 14

GTA San Andreas in Windows 962 2816

 

And oh, look at the titles. As you see, these are the ones that is really suffering from piracy. GTA IV has sold roughly 7.5 million on all platforms so far. Assassin's Creed? Try 4-5 million. We should be feeling really sorry for those guys, look at all the lost revenue!

[alanschu]

The unfortunate thing is concluding the PC Gaming user base is the same (or even representative) of the "much, much larger install base" that PCs in general have.

 

Given the sales data from Electronic Arts (direct from University liaison John Buchanan), PC sale revenues are relatively static, with consoles having significantly higher peaks that only drop due to new consoles coming out, which simply results in a different peak. According to this talk (a recruitment drive by Electronic Arts at my University - University of Alberta), game sales for consoles absolutely destroyed PC game sales (he mentioned this in response to a question for which platforms will be developed for).

 

 

I would guess (since that's all I can really do) that the "installed base" of PC Gamers is actually smaller than the 19 million XBOX 360 users. (It also looks like PC pirates are bigger leechers).

[Meshugger]

The unfortunate thing is concluding the PC Gaming user base is the same (or even representative) of the "much, much larger install base" that PCs in general have.

 

Given the sales data from Electronic Arts (direct from University liaison John Buchanan), PC sale revenues are relatively static, with consoles having significantly higher peaks that only drop due to new consoles coming out, which simply results in a different peak. According to this talk (a recruitment drive by Electronic Arts at my University - University of Alberta), game sales for consoles absolutely destroyed PC game sales (he mentioned this in response to a question for which platforms will be developed for).

 

 

I would guess (since that's all I can really do) that the "installed base" of PC Gamers is actually smaller than the 19 million XBOX 360 users. (It also looks like PC pirates are bigger leechers).

 

From what i understand, the PC install base is abysmal in the US, compared to Europe at least. Look at S.T.A.L.K.E.R., selling 1.6 million within the PAL area, and this is without any anti-piracy mumbo-jumbo.

 

Console players are a stronger segment of consumers when it comes to consuming power, but what has that to do with anti-piracy again? Not much.

[mkreku]

Having a single player game that forces you to go online just to say "I got a legit copy, looky" that only gives you three installs in the entire life time of the game makes you smile? That seems to be a strange thing to smile at, but whatever trips your trigger, Alan.

 

I sure as **** don't feel like a criminal for doing it. Not any more than walking into a bank and having security cameras watching me.

I'm sure you'd be OK with a little anal probing every time you got on a plane too. But some of us don't like that stuff and think it's the pirates who should be jumping through hoops, not us paying customers. These DRM schemes are hitting the wrong end of the spectrum. As I've said earlier in the thread, a reward system is much more effective than a system based on punishment. Basic psychology, but something publishers seem to be missing.

[Pidesco]

PC games regularly top charts here in Portugal, and I'm sure piracy is a much bigger problem here than in the States. Both Mask of the Betrayer and NWN2, for example, spent some time in one of the biggest retailers' charts here.

[alanschu]

The unfortunate thing is concluding the PC Gaming user base is the same (or even representative) of the "much, much larger install base" that PCs in general have.

 

Given the sales data from Electronic Arts (direct from University liaison John Buchanan), PC sale revenues are relatively static, with consoles having significantly higher peaks that only drop due to new consoles coming out, which simply results in a different peak. According to this talk (a recruitment drive by Electronic Arts at my University - University of Alberta), game sales for consoles absolutely destroyed PC game sales (he mentioned this in response to a question for which platforms will be developed for).

 

 

I would guess (since that's all I can really do) that the "installed base" of PC Gamers is actually smaller than the 19 million XBOX 360 users. (It also looks like PC pirates are bigger leechers).

 

From what i understand, the PC install base is abysmal in the US, compared to Europe at least. Look at S.T.A.L.K.E.R., selling 1.6 million within the PAL area, and this is without any anti-piracy mumbo-jumbo.

 

Console players are a stronger segment of consumers when it comes to consuming power, but what has that to do with anti-piracy again? Not much.

 

I just mentioned it since you were talking about installed bases as a preface to your talks about the seeds that you brought up yourself.

[alanschu]

Having a single player game that forces you to go online just to say "I got a legit copy, looky" that only gives you three installs in the entire life time of the game makes you smile? That seems to be a strange thing to smile at, but whatever trips your trigger, Alan.

 

I sure as **** don't feel like a criminal for doing it. Not any more than walking into a bank and having security cameras watching me.

I'm sure you'd be OK with a little anal probing every time you got on a plane too. But some of us don't like that stuff and think it's the pirates who should be jumping through hoops, not us paying customers. These DRM schemes are hitting the wrong end of the spectrum. As I've said earlier in the thread, a reward system is much more effective than a system based on punishment. Basic psychology, but something publishers seem to be missing.

 

 

Because this is totally like anal probing.

 

Verifying my copy of Bioshock is so transparent I didn't even realize it did it before someone told me...just the same as if I were playing a game specifically online. So as for jumping through hoops, I don't really buy it. I suppose I'll understand if people have concerns about the limited installs, because it seems all anyone does on this forum is play old games, but verifying a CD Key (even for a single player game), I'm not really going to buy it. Unless people hold up the same standards for the multiplayer games that do the same thing too.

[alanschu]

PC games regularly top charts here in Portugal, and I'm sure piracy is a much bigger problem here than in the States. Both Mask of the Betrayer and NWN2, for example, spent some time in one of the biggest retailers' charts here.

 

 

I don't know what Europe is like, but from what little I know, it sounds like console piracy is more common outside of the US (especially asia)

[mkreku]

Because this is totally like anal probing.

 

Verifying my copy of Bioshock is so transparent I didn't even realize it did it before someone told me...just the same as if I were playing a game specifically online. So as for jumping through hoops, I don't really buy it. I suppose I'll understand if people have concerns about the limited installs, because it seems all anyone does on this forum is play old games, but verifying a CD Key (even for a single player game), I'm not really going to buy it. Unless people hold up the same standards for the multiplayer games that do the same thing too.

It was used as an example as to how far some people can be pushed and still defend the system.

 

Do you know why MMORPG's are considered worthless by game collector's? Can you see the same issues with games that require an on-line authentication every 10 days? Do you even realize how much you're giving away as a consumer by adhering to these antics? It's amazing to me that you're actually defending this.

 

Where would you draw the line then? When is enough enough for you?

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Because this is totally like anal probing.

 

Yeah, it could be compared to that without too much difficulty.

[Pop]

Do you know why MMORPG's are considered worthless by game collector's?

Wait, what does the accumulated worth of a jewel case 10 years from now have to do with anything?

[Dark_Raven]

Bethesda doesn't seem to have a problem. I just reinstalled Morrowind and Oblivion and was never asked for some lame long assed CD key or any other security BS. I guess they deal with the truth that pirates will always get what they want and its futile to fight them. They accept whatever loses and move along.

 

Its a losing battle like the war on drugs. People want it cheaply, they'll get it.

[Tigranes]

Bethesda are one of the biggest RPG sellers in the world, though, so that may not apply to everyone.

[alanschu]

Because this is totally like anal probing.

 

Yeah, it could be compared to that without too much difficulty.

 

 

And you're a bank robber.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Bethesda doesn't seem to have a problem. I just reinstalled Morrowind and Oblivion and was never asked for some lame long assed CD key or any other security BS. I guess they deal with the truth that pirates will always get what they want and its futile to fight them. They accept whatever loses and move along.

 

Its a losing battle like the war on drugs. People want it cheaply, they'll get it.

I believe the newest releases of Oblivion, id est the "Game of the Year Edition" and the expansion packs, has slightly more security - although I believe that they still do not ask for a CD-key or an on-line activation when you install. However, both of those games do require the DVD/CD to be within the drive when you are playing - something that I sometimes find annoying, but not enough to not buy a product that uses it*. As for Internet verification, I believe the only games that I have bought that require a one-time, on-line activation are Valve products -no, that's not quite correct, I also have two Sam and Max games that I got either as a free sample from Steam or as a gift- and I only bothered to buy them, or, rather, re-buy them, after a free version (thanks again Pop) proved that Steam was no big deal. However, it is true that Steam will allow you to re-install the games on any computer, making it very different from the system proposed for Mass Effect. Also, the fact that Valve spawned Steam tends to make potential customers more stoic about the activation - if only because they know that there will also be some benefits gained from the action. On the other hand, Mass Effect's data rights management system will do nothing but cause problems for the legal players - something that does not make one want to go out and buy the game.

 

 

 

 

*But it is nice when companies, id est Bioware with the original Neverwinter Nights' 1.68 patch, remove the requirement after a few years.

Edited May 19, 2008 by Deadly_Nightshade

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Because this is totally like anal probing.

 

Yeah, it could be compared to that without too much difficulty.

 

 

And you're a bank robber.

 

What? I do not understand your comment, although that might be because it is 1:01 a.m. at the moment.

[Tale]

Bethesda doesn't seem to have a problem. I just reinstalled Morrowind and Oblivion and was never asked for some lame long assed CD key or any other security BS.

To note. Morrowind used Securom. It was actually considered a big issue at the time. I remember Penny-Arcade Tycho ranting then about it.

 

I think they removed it in a later patch, but depending on what version you own, it'll still be in the install.

Edited May 19, 2008 by Tale

[thepixiesrock]

Because this is totally like anal probing.

 

Yeah, it could be compared to that without too much difficulty.

 

 

And you're a bank robber.

 

What? I do not understand your comment, although that might be because it is 1:01 a.m. at the moment.

 

It has something to do with your ridiculous comment.