Bioware sold out

[Tigranes]

The fact is the developer/publisher makes the rules.

 

Of course, and it's not like we can just change this fact, but some of us sure make it easy for the dev/pubs to set whatever rules they want.

[Sand]

Alan, ME is a single player game thusly it should not even need the Internet to play it, thusly it is accessing the Internet without permission. I am not going oinstall a game like that on my PC.

[Tale]

I'm betting if someone was willing to sue EA, they'd win on the basis of that second hand sales law thingy.

 

Doubtful. I don't know exactly how Bioware/EA 's EULA is written right now, but they can modify it to restrict sales. Novell (and I believe a few other companies) have had eBay pull down auctions of their second-hand software for years and years without being sued.

How an EULA is worded is irrelevant in this regard. No company can deny First Sale doctrine. They can ask ebay to take things down and ebay can deny access to ebay's services at their discretion. Whether or not asking ebay to deny services is a violation is something that has not been tested.

[Nick_i_am]

I just can't belive that Hades wants to buy the same game on two different platforms.

[Dark_Raven]

I don't like it when my computer hooks up totheinternet and starts sending information to other computers without my direct control. I just won't get games with this style of copy protection. If this is the way PC gaming is going, I will stick to console.

I wouldn't go that low. I'll just stick to old games or if I really want it, get it by other means.

[LostStraw]

I'm betting if someone was willing to sue EA, they'd win on the basis of that second hand sales law thingy.

 

Doubtful. I don't know exactly how Bioware/EA 's EULA is written right now, but they can modify it to restrict sales. Novell (and I believe a few other companies) have had eBay pull down auctions of their second-hand software for years and years without being sued.

How an EULA is worded is irrelevant in this regard. No company can deny First Sale doctrine. They can ask ebay to take things down and ebay can deny access to ebay's services at their discretion. Whether or not asking ebay to deny services is a violation is something that has not been tested.

 

 

It's up to the courts though and according to Wikipedia there's still no clear winner when it comes to to the First-sale doctrine and computer software.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_sale_doctrine

[~Di]

Wow. I just found out. Before I get happy, are the changes Bio is promising to make as good as they seem to my techie-not eyes? If they are, I am so gonna get Mass Effect!!

 

I honestly did not expect them to back down on this. Really, I didn't.

[random n00b]

They have removed the 10-day periodic authentication. But you are still limited to 3 installs per purchase, with the possibility for additional installs depending on the thumbs-up from EA customer support, as well as an initial authentication, in the form of the DRM thingy that controls your installs.

 

To me it's as if you got caught stealing stuff from a store and, after much begging, they are convinced to cut only your right hand, as opposed to cutting both, which was their original intention.

 

...only you actually paid for said stuff.

[~Di]

It was the every-10-day "invisible" foray into my computer that was the final straw for me. I suspect I can live with the other stuff. I'm planning to watch the Bio Tech forums for a few days to see if there are hidden problems, but overall I'm pretty pleased by that concession.

[alanschu]

Alan, ME is a single player game thusly it should not even need the Internet to play it, thusly it is accessing the Internet without permission. I am not going oinstall a game like that on my PC.

 

 

Irrelevant. If you know it is going to access the internet, then you are giving it the same permission to be online, the same way you do with your web browser. It's not like they are secretly transmitting data. They are being quite up front about it actually.

 

 

If you were genuinely concerned about stuff being transmitted over the internet without your permission (your reason for your boycott), then you shouldn't even log onto the internet.

[alanschu]

I think the "OMG they are treating me like a criminal" element is remarkably overplayed.

 

People out there are so sensitive that they actually feel like a criminal over this stuff?

[random n00b]

I feel like... a million dollars.

[Kor Qel Droma]

I just can't belive that Hades wants to buy the same game on two different platforms.

 

I can!!

[Humodour]

It was the every-10-day "invisible" foray into my computer that was the final straw for me. I suspect I can live with the other stuff. I'm planning to watch the Bio Tech forums for a few days to see if there are hidden problems, but overall I'm pretty pleased by that concession.

 

 

They removed that huh? Awesome. I think I can deal with the 3 installs thingo (and there will be a crack if I can't).

 

So much for Gromnir calling our rants and boycotts a waste of time.

[~Di]

It was the every-10-day "invisible" foray into my computer that was the final straw for me. I suspect I can live with the other stuff. I'm planning to watch the Bio Tech forums for a few days to see if there are hidden problems, but overall I'm pretty pleased by that concession.

 

 

They removed that huh? Awesome. I think I can deal with the 3 installs thingo (and there will be a crack if I can't).

 

So much for Gromnir calling our rants and boycotts a waste of time.

 

In fairness to Grommy, your rant and my rant probably was a waste of time. It was the thousands of other rants that did it! That and somebody probably got the figures on cancelled pre-orders.

[Humodour]

It was the every-10-day "invisible" foray into my computer that was the final straw for me. I suspect I can live with the other stuff. I'm planning to watch the Bio Tech forums for a few days to see if there are hidden problems, but overall I'm pretty pleased by that concession.

 

 

They removed that huh? Awesome. I think I can deal with the 3 installs thingo (and there will be a crack if I can't).

 

So much for Gromnir calling our rants and boycotts a waste of time.

 

In fairness to Grommy, your rant and my rant probably was a waste of time. It was the thousands of other rants that did it! That and somebody probably got the figures on cancelled pre-orders.

 

True, but any one of those other rants on their own would have done nothing. You need to take these things as a collective - it's the fact that there was such large and widespread resistance to these features which made EA realise they were a bad idea. Kudos to EA for listening to its customers, as well.

 

It's like in voting - any single voter's vote is meaningless, but if you apply that logic to all voters, things fall apart.

[Tigranes]

Wait, are you guys saying they removed the 10-day thing?

[Kelverin]

Wait, are you guys saying they removed the 10-day thing?

Correct!

[aries101]

They have removed the 10-day periodic authentication. But you are still limited to 3 installs per purchase, with the possibility for additional installs depending on the thumbs-up from EA customer support, as well as an initial authentication, in the form of the DRM thingy that controls your installs.

 

To me it's as if you got caught stealing stuff from a store and, after much begging, they are convinced to cut only your right hand, as opposed to cutting both, which was their original intention.

 

...only you actually paid for said stuff.

 

Stanly Woo and Derek French on the Bioware MEPC forums have said that it is three activations. As long as you install the game, MEPC, on the same machine you can install away ---- as many times as you want. The game is tied to your hardware configuration, not the installer. The game requires you to go through a one time online validation process through providing a valid cdkey. I am fine with this.

 

The DRM thingy does not control your installs, it controls your activations. Some people might not be interested in the game, because it requires an internet connection or may not be interested in the game because it has DRM like Securom. And that's fine...

[Tigranes]

The game is tied to your hardware configuration

 

So if you reformat, and/or replace your video card, etc, etc? How are they going to tie it? If it's anything like the original XP Home that's going to be annoying.

[Morgoth]

Well I don't get the buzz about all the DRM measures lately. You just enter your key, connect with servers, done. Easier than eating pancake.

Edited May 10, 2008 by Morgoth

[Sand]

Well I don't get the buzz about all the DRM measures lately. You just enter your key, connect with servers, done. Easier than eating pancake.

 

Its the forcing to connect with a server that is getting people, along with the severely limited amount of activations. Remove the activation limits and the force connect then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

[Moatilliatta]

So if you reformat, and/or replace your video card, etc, etc? How are they going to tie it? If it's anything like the original XP Home that's going to be annoying.

Noone knows exactly what it is tied to and as such the only reply really is that it is tied somehow to some hardware things in your computer. I don't know what will The graphicscard shouldn't be important when it comes to tying it to the PC as Derek French reported being able to switch graphicscard without using another authentication.

Noone really knows anything excpet what we can deduce logically from the very little info that we have gotten so all of these questions are a bit premature.

[Tale]

I'm betting if someone was willing to sue EA, they'd win on the basis of that second hand sales law thingy.

 

Doubtful. I don't know exactly how Bioware/EA 's EULA is written right now, but they can modify it to restrict sales. Novell (and I believe a few other companies) have had eBay pull down auctions of their second-hand software for years and years without being sued.

How an EULA is worded is irrelevant in this regard. No company can deny First Sale doctrine. They can ask ebay to take things down and ebay can deny access to ebay's services at their discretion. Whether or not asking ebay to deny services is a violation is something that has not been tested.

 

 

It's up to the courts though and according to Wikipedia there's still no clear winner when it comes to to the First-sale doctrine and computer software.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_sale_doctrine

 

For First Sale applying to software:

Bauer & Cie. v. O'Donnell

Bobbs-Merrill Co. v. Straus

Circuits 1-6 & 9-13

Softman v. Adobe (2001)

Novell, Inc. v. CPU Distrib., Inc. (2000)

 

Against

Davidson & Associates v. Internet Gateway Inc (2004)

Circuits 7 & 8

 

 

So, while there is a debate, it's pretty heavily sided for First Sale applying to software.

[Gromnir]

1) is nice to see that bio listens to fan base

 

2) is sad that a small handful o' knowledgeable folks managed to create a panic 'mongst less sophisticated gamers.

 

3) Gromnir will repost our thoughts regarding ME on monday... for those that were interested.

 

HA! Good Fun!