Final Fantasy VII,a game with bad graphics but great gameplay

[Amentep]

I liked Final Fantasy VII; I don't think it was the best in the series (still favor VI personally) but I did enjoy it and played it through several times trying to get all of the stuff (never did beat all the ultimate weapons, but then I was never big on 100% completion).

 

I'm one of the few who favored VIII to VII, and I didn't care much for IX when many loved it. So I'm a bit out of the norm for Final Fantasy players anyhow (and I haven't bothered with XII, so I guess my interest in the series has waned).

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Bach. I'm not sure if I have posted in this thread - but that really doesn't matter. I did not care for the game myself, but I've never been a FF fan.

[Tale]

I'm never quite sure why some people prefer VIII. Though, Amentep, the numbers who do aren't quite "few." They may be a minority among the overall fanbase, however. I thought it was amazingly dull. Except Laguna.

[Pidesco]

VIII was the first FF game to try to change the core gameplay of the series in a meaningful way that attempted to deal away with the level up grind. It was also one of the few FF games that actually asked you to think while playing. Many hardcore FF players didn't take well to those changes. The storyline was complete crap of course, but it really wasn't any worse than in the rest of the FFs. The crap writing just shone through more because of the subject matter.

[Tale]

Storyline, schmoryline, the characters were all a bore. Same background, same backstory, and a villain that doesn't even bother to have that much. At least Sephiroth was himself more than a MacGuffin.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Tale

[Pidesco]

You talk like the characters in other FF games were interesting.

[Tale]

Because they sometimes were. With their own little stories to tell. Same thing that made Baldur's Gate II superior to I.

 

Which is why I like VI and VII. IV I like, but I can't really say too much for many of the characters. The characters managed to make themselves stand out in other interesting ways. Travel the world, meet new people... watch them die. IX also had some interesting characters, but my memories of it are none too fresh.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Tale

[Pidesco]

What, VI? I can see how it was much better than the competition at the time in terms of character development, but it was still pretty dire. That "Terra can kill again" bit in particular, still makes want to do bad things to Square's writers.

 

And as for VII, take away the FMVs and what you've got is a big fat zilch. I'd like to see if all those FFVII fans would've cried for Aeris if the whole thing had been done with FFVI's engine.

[Tale]

Isn't translation and graphics wholly a tanget of the discussion you and I are having? They were interesting characters. Localization, the particulars of the dialogue, and whether or not it's FMV are irrelevant in that regard. If you're not sensitive/obsessive, you can ignore it.

 

VIII had Barret with his story about how he lost his arm and his best friend. Vincent's relationship to the love triangle between the mad scientist and the woman who bore sephiroth. Cloud's true story and how Tifa helped show what it was and that Cloud's story was actually Zack's. The backstory connections between Zack and Aeris. Yuffie wasn't too interesting in her story, but she was slightly fun. Red XIII's story was emotional. Cid just wanted to go into space.

 

VI had little interesting stories for Shadow and Terra. They're the only ones I truly recall, but they were good. Edgar and his brother, but I don't recall much of that. The other female and her father and how she ended up alone and attempted suicide was fairly dramatic.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Tale

[Tigranes]

Localisation for FFVI was pretty horrible; you really had to get past the truncated and poor nature of the writing, and look at the plot and characterisation as it unfolded. In that sense, I thought it did a very good job of giving distinct and fairly interesting personalities to such a wide variety of characters, and have an interweaving story that accommodated them all without being too weird. Certainly, Terra was yet another "Oh Woe Is Me" FF protagonist, and Kefka was awesome only for the name, but the supporting cast is often the highlight of FF anyway.

 

Again with FFVII, the story and characters were pretty good. Sure, they were quite shallow and typical, but they were very well made and represent the best that can be done with the 'mainstream', rather like Oblivion in some ways. BG2 really did the same, though with a bit more spunk and a bit more maturity. There is a reason why FFVII and BG2 both command a huge repertoire of dedicated fan fiction five, six, seven years after their creation; the basis of the cast was very solid in both games, and were fleshed out enough to go on with. I enjoyed one particular long-running FFVII fan fiction and some BG fan fiction when I was in high school. Certainly, you can call them up for their shortcomings, but if you want to slate them as 'shallow trash', then the same criticism could be levelled at most of US television, for example.

[Pidesco]

All of those character stories you've described are just daytime soap opera quality stories. At best. It's like gamers allow game stories to pass through go and collect 2000$ just because they're game stories.

 

Anyway, I'm not saying that shouldn't enjoy whatever plots they want, or that most writing in other mediums isn't as bad or worse. What I am saying is that these kinds of plots shouldn't be made more of that they actually are, and that gamers shouldn't lower their standards just because everything else is so crappy. A similar thing happened with HL, just because the story wasn't told through the readme as was usual in previous FPSs.

[Tigranes]

All of those character stories you've described are just daytime soap opera quality stories.

 

My point wasn't really that they were deep, complex, thought-provoking characters; if they were, they would stay with me now, as opposed to remaining a relic of the teenage years. My point was rather that they aren't particularly any worse than most media characters I see on Hollywood blockbusters, TV programs or even many novels. They were just well polished enough to excel in their own way. I don't really think I'm giving much of a leeway just because they're games - it might just be that I have a lower opinion of existing popular media stories than others.

 

gamers shouldn't lower their standards just because everything else is so crappy.

 

True in theory, but I find in myself and others that it does happen.

[astr0creep]

The whole package of FF7 is better than the simple sum of it's parts.

 

When one puts everything together and looks at the big picture, the achievement of the product, it's an astonishing game.

[Amentep]

I'm never quite sure why some people prefer VIII. Though, Amentep, the numbers who do aren't quite "few." They may be a minority among the overall fanbase, however. I thought it was amazingly dull. Except Laguna.

 

Well I know VIII sold well, but it seemed at the time that most of the diehard FF fans hated the game. I liked that it tried to be a bit more ambitious in what it was doing even if it wasn't always successfull. But then I never really found it dull (and it is one of the few games that I actually spent time doing the minigame on in any significant way!)

 

I remember getting into a long debate before about VIII vs. IX as many people thought IX was a return to greatness and I found it to be a disapointing mish-mash of story elements we'd already seen in the FF series before. That I favored VIII to VII was the like throwing down the gauntlet asking for a flame war!

[Nick_i_am]

Except Laguna.

 

Best thing to come out of the PS era of FF games.

 

I say this because I still consider FFX and FFIV to be genuinely good games and not just 'good for the time' games.

[Tale]

I still consider FFX ... to be genuinely good

You're dead to me, Nick!

 

I hate my father! *stamps foot like a 12 year old*

 

No wait, I really don't, I love my father, I just miss him and wish he hugged me more as a child!

[Nick_i_am]

Don't get me wrong, Tidus was even more annoying than that monkey moron from FFIX, and the english VA was pretty much horrible. There are a hundred other little things that are awful about the game.

 

BUT, there are so many things they did that were a breath of fresh air for the series AND the genre that I have to give it credit. These include an actually tactical (and challanging) battle system that made great use of status effects and buffs/debuffs. Interesting character customisation (on the expert grid, which yanks didn't get iirc, it makes a huge difference) and weapon customisation. Characters that remained a vocal part of the party throughout the entire game, rather than just poping up for their sidequest then being mute for the rest of the thing. Art design that hasn't aged nearly as badly as the PSX era games (sprites are immortal, so pre-PSX hasn't suffered). And finally, a good coherant narrative. Even if the characters were all annoying, the narrative that carried them remained constant and flowed nicely from scene to scene, which gave the game a more polished feel than previous itirations.

 

Basically, that is to say, despite much of it being smoke and mirrors I enjoyed being taken along for the ride even given the flaws. Not that I can blame anyone who hates it, the flaws were there.

[Volourn]

FF8 is the best FF. Only FF6 is close. FF7, and FF4 were pretty good too. FF1. and FFX wer eokay. The others were crap espciially FF5. people go on, and on about the job system which was simply passable and the rest of the game just plain sucked.

 

People who go off on a amd on people who like FF are way mroe emo than those FF fans.

 

 

R00fles!

[Musopticon?]

Crystal Chronicles!

[Meshugger]

I still consider FFX ... to be genuinely good

You're dead to me, Nick!

 

I hate my father! *stamps foot like a 12 year old*

 

No wait, I really don't, I love my father, I just miss him and wish he hugged me more as a child!

 

All the other characters + the whole culture of Spira made FFX into a good game, not Tidus, IMO.

 

And i really don't like the ATB-system, so the turn-based combat system was a welcome change.

 

And the music was top-notch, as always.

Edited March 27, 2008 by Meshugger

[Amentep]

FF8 is the best FF. Only FF6 is close. FF7, and FF4 were pretty good too. FF1. and FFX wer eokay. The others were crap espciially FF5. people go on, and on about the job system which was simply passable and the rest of the game just plain sucked.

 

People who go off on a amd on people who like FF are way mroe emo than those FF fans.

 

 

R00fles!

 

I liked 6 better than 8 and like 7 pretty well. I also like I and II (very much like some old computer games I've played, like Phantasie from SSI). I don't think I ever beat III (but what I played was fun) and V was only "okay" to me, the story kinda made me go "meh". I really didn't like IV that much.