Mask of the Betrayer Redux

[poolofpoo]

Because they don't have the internet, yet.

 

you better not be talking to me

[Tale]

I am. The reason the people of the realms don't know about your fantastic exploits and all the killing is because they don't have the internet. Can't read the report on CNN.

 

Also, your not leaving survivors makes it difficult, too.

[J.E. Sawyer]

The spirit meter is a nuisance. No one likes plot devices that hamstring gameplay.

Personally, I thought it was pretty easy to deal with. Then again, I did the "good" path with it.

[poolofpoo]

I am. The reason the people of the realms don't know about your fantastic exploits and all the killing is because they don't have the internet. Can't read the report on CNN.

 

Also, your not leaving survivors makes it difficult, too.

 

who are you to decide whether they have the internet or not? as far as i'm concerned they all have blackberrys. better yet they have guys who can teleport and portals that blows instant messaging out the water

 

furthermore i can't seem to kill everyone in the game, not even attack them in fact, so there are plenty of survivors

[Gromnir]

any word on when a patch might be forthcoming? sounds as if motb is pretty stable, but is more than a few o' those data entry bugs likes warlocks not able to choose item creation feats and issues with warpriests not getting correct caster level... and many more. not expect all such stuff to be fixed in a patch, but those things is irksome and Gromnir not wanna play til obsidian takes their first crack at fixing.

 

as for codex...

 

*shrug*

 

obsidian reference ain't an homage as much as it is a joke, but Gromnir does enjoy codex in small doses. codex is fine as long as you realize that they is a joke site... kinda like the onion. 'course all the regulars and admins not seem to be in on the joke, which makes joke better. am suspecting that the obsidians get the joke.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Musopticon?]

For further reference, poolofpoo is a known troll idiot. Don't feed him.

 

No, really. It's his style, he always posts the same.

Edited October 26, 2007 by Musopticon?

[Tale]

For further reference, poolofpoo is a known troll idiot. Don't feed him.

hmmm...

 

I am. The reason the people of the realms don't know about your fantastic exploits and all the killing is because they don't have the internet. Can't read the report on CNN.

 

Also, your not leaving survivors makes it difficult, too.

 

who are you to decide whether they have the internet or not? as far as i'm concerned they all have blackberrys. better yet they have guys who can teleport and portals that blows instant messaging out the water

 

furthermore i can't seem to kill everyone in the game, not even attack them in fact, so there are plenty of survivors

Do you like ham on wheat?

[SteveThaiBinh]

Let's keep constructive and on-topic, please.

[Gromnir]

as for epic strangeness... yeah, d&d epic is tough to do. there is an established kinda power hierarchy in the fr setting, so once Gromnir's character hits epic, mundane interactions becomes almost comical.

 

there is many aspects o' the planescape universe that Gromnir disliked, but the kinda environment that sigil made available were ideal for epic. that filthy bunch-backed bum in the alley who seems to be having a heated and decidedly one-sided conversation with a bent soup spoon, could very possibly be the physical repository of the spirits of the 12 Witches of Dis who came ever so close to dethroning Dispater... or some other such nonsense. that guy selling sticky buns out of a cart wouldn't last long if he went to pieces every time some Balor complained 'bout his prices. and heck, the guy who knows the Secret of the Planes might be a very ordinary shipwright who spends all his time working on a boat in spite of fact that sigil gots no bodies o' water. his neighbors thinks he is crazy, and maybe he is, but he got no special powers or magic abilities per se, but he is The Guy. everybody in sigil realizes that the next person they meet could be The Guy.

 

...

 

and having the Lady o' Pain (as silly a construct as she is,) helps keeps excessive behaviors in check. poo would get mazed so fast his head would spin.

 

epic is difficult to make... reasonable. try to shoehorn into the FR setting you makes even more unlikely that it will be reasonable. Gromnir will be curious to see just how well obsidian did at trying to make acceptable, but Gromnir realizes that allowances gotta be made given the setting and the levels.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[aries101]

Just to re-iterate the review from the Codex :

 

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=159

(a good thing can't be said too many times...)

 

I wanted to get this game, after reading about it. Now I feel like I need to have this game

Praise from the Codex isn't something you see everyday. Sadly, I can't afford to get games right now.

But the the day I can, MotB will be the first game, I buying

[Gromnir]

btw, Gromnir only got through the first couple paragraphs o' vd's review. his starting point were too alien.

 

different has no intrinsic value. the reason why Star Wars were so succesful is precise because it followed the formula that vd seems to loathe. maybe vd is a big anime fan, 'cause goal o' anime seems to be making plot as Unique as possible. the thing is that the anime character interactions and plot devices is all formulaic, but the plot itself is almost always bizzare, no?

 

motb is an expansion that starts off with epic characters in the FR setting... so obviously we ain't gonna get the typical fantasy origin. is that a good thing? *chuckle* no. no points from Gromnir simply 'cause motb chose to go with epic wackiness. maybe vd makes some good observations later in review, but given his starting point and the potential for spoilers, we simply could not bring self to read further.

 

regardless, it is nice to see that vd likes motb... for whatever reasons. baby steps for vd.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Pop]

different has no intrinsic value. the reason why Star Wars were so succesful is precise because it followed the formula that vd seems to loathe. maybe vd is a big anime fan, 'cause goal o' anime seems to be making plot as Unique as possible. the thing is that the anime character interactions and plot devices is all formulaic, but the plot itself is almost always bizzare, no?

Funny that you'd say that, because from where I'm standing, most anime seems to take after Akira, NGE, any of the cutesy series (Steel Angel Kurumi?), Ninja Scrolls, or an amalgamation of the 4, pretty closely. Elfin Lied, for example, which was all the rage not too long ago, contained huge bleeding chunks of the first 3. The series that I do like, Cowboy Bebop or Trigun, for example, aren't short on overwrought melodrama themselves but make up for it by not being totally stone-faced serious about the stupid bull**** they contain, ala Lied.

 

But anyway, that's off-topic.

[poolofpoo]

For further reference, poolofpoo is a known troll idiot. Don't feed him.

 

No, really. It's his style, he always posts the same.

 

 

please try to stay on topic you angry nerd

[poolofpoo]

Do you like ham on wheat?

 

you must accept suffering and redeem yourself by it, that's what you must do

Edited October 26, 2007 by poolofpoo

[Cantousent]

Ha! I thought mine was a rave review. I didn't read all of VD's review just yet, as I was just checking out a wireless network, but I only really disagree with him on one point. I think MotB will be well received critically. I think it has the weight to invigorate the modding scene.

 

It's also good to see that VD and I, from what I glanced, have such similar tastes. I should visit the Codex more often. I like abuse as much as the next guy, after all.

[Tale]

Do you like ham on wheat?

 

you must accept suffering and redeem yourself by it, that's what you must do

I already read these boards, how much more suffering do I need?!

[poolofpoo]

but Gromnir realizes that allowances gotta be made given the setting and the levels.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

indeed, and in all fairness most characters that matters do act properly towards you, but non essential npc's don't which is sad coz it would've been such an easy fix

[Gorgon]

By the way, I have these essences that the description says I can enchant using a 'mold sprit ability'. I haven't actually got something with such an ability though, and the stores are fresh out as well.

 

I'm playing throught the game for the first time, and, well, it's not terrible.

 

I still don't like the camera though, and there seems to be a lot of rubberbanding going on when you run past the meatshields to engage the casters in mele.

 

The npc interaction box is a bit dull, and on occasion I have found myself just reading my own questions rather than siving through lengthy uninspiring dialouge, but the game surprises you with quality touches enough to keep it interesting.

[Tale]

By the way, I have these essences that the description says I can enchant using a 'mold sprit ability'. I haven't actually got something with such an ability though, and the stores are fresh out as well.

You get that ability later.

[Gromnir]

different has no intrinsic value. the reason why Star Wars were so succesful is precise because it followed the formula that vd seems to loathe. maybe vd is a big anime fan, 'cause goal o' anime seems to be making plot as Unique as possible. the thing is that the anime character interactions and plot devices is all formulaic, but the plot itself is almost always bizzare, no?

Funny that you'd say that, because from where I'm standing, most anime seems to take after Akira, NGE, any of the cutesy series (Steel Angel Kurumi?), Ninja Scrolls, or an amalgamation of the 4, pretty closely. Elfin Lied, for example, which was all the rage not too long ago, contained huge bleeding chunks of the first 3. The series that I do like, Cowboy Bebop or Trigun, for example, aren't short on overwrought melodrama themselves but make up for it by not being totally stone-faced serious about the stupid bull**** they contain, ala Lied.

 

But anyway, that's off-topic.

 

Pinocchio and Godzilla. viewed broad, virtually all anime goes into these categories... akira was an anime version o' Godzilla with those aforementioned wacky Fantastic elements vd likes so much thrown into the mix. banish all anime that depends on pinocchio and godzilla, and gets rid of any anime with a Buffy character, and there would be very little anime.

 

again, basic themes and characters is all familiar, but the writers of anime plots is all trying so damned hard to come up with some unique twist or spin. different. is akira little more than Godzilla? no, but technically the plot is different.

 

'course a whole 'nother category o' anime is the non-fantastic real life genre that got 0 fantastic elements... but watching those makes Gromnir's brain hurt. either the japanese are seriously f'd up, or we is missing something.

 

regardless, there ain't nothing wrong with doing old stories and familiar plots. yeah, different done well is nice, but different, in and of itself, is hardly a positive.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Cantousent]

I agree with Gromnir. I lose patience when I get the impression the only thing the writer wants is to achieve "unique." Different is not an end. Handling things "differently" is a splendid goal. ...But trying to achieve "uniqueness" is a losing proposition because, in the end, humanity is not unique. Most of us go through our whole lives without reaching a single original thought. That's okay. If the story is good, and the writer tells it well, then that's all that matters.

 

MotB is different, but that's not the strength of the story. The strength of the story, for me, lies in the presentation.

[Gorgon]

The spirit meter is a nuisance. No one likes plot devices that hamstring gameplay.

Personally, I thought it was pretty easy to deal with. Then again, I did the "good" path with it.

 

 

Yes, but I play as a Druid.

 

Apparently trying to minimise the effects of annoying forced plot elements makes me too 'lawful', unless I feed on spirits I will lose my ability to advance in my class.

[Azarkon]

Different does have intrinsic value, though, even difference for the sake of difference, because it represents something new. That something new might not be very good - in fact, it maybe trash, but it's still an addition to the body of tried ideas; at the very least, it shows what not to do.

 

By comparison, a clone is... Worthless. It adds nothing. Sure, you might enjoy it, but if the work is really a clone, you might as well replay the source. It'd have the same effect.

 

Of course, most works considered "clones" are not actually clones, but re-tellings with various degrees of originality, whether they be in plot, writing, graphics, or what-have-you.

 

But if you simply write Star Wars and change the names of characters, what's the point? The worst of new ideas contribute more than the best of clones.

 

So yes, while it's not generally a good idea to be different for the sake of difference, if you can't manage anything else, then at least be different.

[J.E. Sawyer]

Yes, but I play as a Druid.

 

Apparently trying to minimise the effects of annoying forced plot elements makes me too 'lawful', unless I feed on spirits I will lose my ability to advance in my class.

I think this has less to do with the core spirit-eater mechanics and more to do with its ancillary effects. But the same could apply to alignment shifts that occur in conversation. I agree that the alignment shifting can be problematic to deal with.

[Spider]

The special abilities associated with the curse aren't fun to use either, if you play as a caster you can just ignore the meter and use the satiate ability once in a while, you will hardly know the difference, but a mele character is seriously hampered by a forced plot device. That is a really stupid idea.

 

Wait... what... how?

 

How is a melee character more hampered by the spirit meter than a caster? When I played, it was the casters who were taking a beating because I didn't want to rest unless I had to (because resting would usually mean losing more points than satiate would regain). But keeping it full wasn't really that difficult most of the time (and had I bothered to read on Eternal Rest earlier, I don't think it would have been difficult at all).

 

So out of honest curiousity, can anyone explain to me how the Spirit Meter system punishes meleers?

 

I was playing a melee-character by the way.

 

(also for the record, I really liked the Spirit Meter, I think it was a good way to keep resting in check. Now I typically dislike how resting works in D&D games and tend to not rest for as long as I can. Typically I only rest when my casters run out of spells, which in MotB was quite rare since I didn't need to use them much. All in all, I honestly think I rested fewer than 10 times in the game, not counting map travels. Which to me is a good thing)