Cheaters!

[Calax]

While pc gamers have always been able to hack and slash their way though code in order to come up with a trainer or other little toy to make themselves into god incarnate (which several games have said you are but you can still be killed by your average human with a knife... wierd) Console gamers have recently watched as the number of cheats on their systems get slashed again and again (particularly on the 360) And while there are going to be some people who scream in happiness that others won't be able to "illegitimately" get through a game without serious know how (like turning your XboX into a portable computer... of a sort), I think that it's kind of a bad thing. While people won't be able to use the codes to hack and slash their way to fame and fortune online, they can still get what they feel is a fulfilling experience by beating things up faster than a semi can destroy a picket fence.

 

Now I've picked out Consoles in particular because in the console wars Microsoft has recently come out with the idea that people should be rated on what they do and given a number of points for doing a particular stunt or stupid stupid thing, Achievements. This effectively kills cheats because if a company puts in a god mode cheat, they won't be able to have a 'damage taken' 'damage regenerated/healed' achievement and thus ultimately lower the point value of the game. And in a competitive world like ours (earth... not gaming) people will probably only play the game AFTER they've exhausted every other source of achievement points that they can.

 

I will admit I am a bit selfish in posting that cheats be brought back to games. I have ADD, and if I retrace my steps in an RPG or find myself facing guys who put up a hard fight when everything else I've seen in the entire game died as soon as I administered the Fingerpoke of Doom! to them, I tend to just flat out stop playing. This also goes for grinding like a maniac to get a team of people up to par because the leveling system either A) doesn't give people in reserve XP, just arbitrarly raises their levels when you start pushing a limit B) your characters in the party start to gain 1/2 again as much xp as those outside your party C) theres just so many people that your army of followers can be from lvl 8 to lvl 72. or D) the difference between two dungeons in terms of levels is so dramatic that you find yourself using every res item and spell at least once within five fights. (That last one usually happens in JRPG's where you get a period of "hey find everything you can and do it before the final dungeon" time, then you charge down the dungeon only to find yourself facing guys that are 10-20 levels higher than the last major fight you had) (oh and C only really applies to Suikoden but I wish more RPG's would have that many possible members.)

 

 

Thoughts?

[Morgoth]

I haven't read through all this, but yes, cheating is a terrible thing. In games too, btw.

[Tigranes]

Morgoth eats a banana on the way to school.

 

Microsoft's point I think is that they are trying to integrate your single player experience into the realm of online competition, i.e. not just online games but SP games too have the benefit of that extra 'pull' factor on gamers. Though I"m not sure how it all works in particular, youv'e got to wonder why they dont' make it so that saved games which haved used cheats are diqualified from Achievements.

[ramza]

That wasn't his point... (to morgoth)

 

Anyway, cheating is useful to some extent. It all depends on how the player uses this possibility. Of course, there are people who just cheat all their way through ANY game. I personnally don't like this because I like having getting some sense of achievment when I beat a dificult foe. Cheating all the way may even spoil the game for me. But that's a personal preference. I don't think we can blame anyone for cheating in games. It's just a matter of choice. You don't harm anyone. Of course, cheating should be strictly forbidden in MMORPGs since there are so many other people trying to play properly, but that's another matter.

 

When it comes to the usefulness of cheating, I see 2 main points:

1) Does anyone remember how hard nintendo and sega games were in the 80's and 90's? I had so many games that I could never complete because of them being so hard. That was really frustrating. Another reason I could never complete them was because you couldn't save. Cheating would have helped me in this situation.

 

2) I have been rather busy since I entered university and I haven't has so much free time for gaming. Thus, when I play a game, it is mainly for its storyline. I will mention the IE games and NWN1 as examples here. I love d&d, but if i was playing those games in a honest way, it would have taken ages for me to complete them. Carefully planning how I must spend my money, picking up every non-useful piece of armor or weapon in order to sell them, resting every so often, etc is extremely time consuming. I play the game for its story, so I want to be done with it as fast as possible. I thus give max level to all my characters from the start (I never used a level cap remover though), a lot of gold and a few rare magical items (depending on the game). Of course I raised the difficulty level too, and I have to say my gaming experience was not too much spoiled. The BG and IWD games remain challenging. NWN was a chore on the other hand. No matter what class I make, I end up never using spells and end up hacking through hordes of enemies with my melee weapons. When I say "hordes", I mean it. The number of enemies was 5 times superior to the normal, and sometimes (especially in crypts), they were a lot tougher than in the normal game. For example, I had to face 10 liches with time-stop at the same time! I never managed to kill them, so I used stealth instead.

 

As for other games (let's take WC3 for example): I played the human campaign and some missions of the undead campaign without cheating. Thes rest of the game and the expansion were beaten by cheating because I had enough of doing the same thing over and over again. I just wanted to see the endings and couldn't afford wasting hours in order to achieve this.

 

In other words, I do not condemn cheating. I use under specific circumstances. I don't care what other players do, it is just a matter of taste.

Edited June 7, 2007 by ramza

[Calax]

That wasn't his point... (to morgoth)

 

Anyway, cheating is useful to some extent. It all depends on how the player uses this possibility. Of course, there are people who just cheat all their way through ANY game. I personnally don't like this because I like having getting some sense of achievment when I beat a dificult foe. Cheating all the way may even spoil the game for me. But that's a personal preference. I don't think we can blame anyone for cheating in games. It's just a matter of choice. You don't harm anyone. Of course, cheating should be strictly forbidden in MMORPGs since there are so many other people trying to play properly, but that's another matter.

 

When it comes to the usefulness of cheating, I see 2 main points:

1) Does anyone remember how hard nintendo and sega games were in the 80's and 90's? I had so many games that I could never complete because of them being so hard. That was really frustrating. Another reason I could never complete them was because you couldn't save. Cheating would have helped me in this situation.

 

2) I have been rather busy since I entered university and I haven't has so much free time for gaming. Thus, when I play a game, it is mainly for its storyline. I will mention the IE games and NWN1 as examples here. I love d&d, but if i was playing those games in a honest way, it would have taken ages for me to complete them. Carefully planning how I must spend my money, picking up every non-useful piece of armor or weapon in order to sell them, resting every so often, etc is extremely time consuming. I play the game for its story, so I want to be done with it as fast as possible. I thus give max level to all my characters from the start (I never used a level cap remover though), a lot of gold and a few rare magical items (depending on the game). Of course I raised the difficulty level too, and I have to say my gaming experience was not too much spoiled. The BG and IWD games remain challenging. NWN was a chore on the other hand. No matter what class I make, I end up never using spells and end up hacking through hordes of enemies with my melee weapons. When I say "hordes", I mean it. The number of enemies was 5 times superior to the normal, and sometimes (especially in crypts), they were a lot tougher than in the normal game. For example, I had to face 10 liches with time-stop at the same time! I never managed to kill them, so I used stealth instead.

 

As for other games (let's take WC3 for example): I played the human campaign and some missions of the undead campaign without cheating. Thes rest of the game and the expansion were beaten by cheating because I had enough of doing the same thing over and over again. I just wanted to see the endings and couldn't afford wasting hours in order to achieve this.

 

In other words, I do not condemn cheating. I use under specific circumstances. I don't care what other players do, it is just a matter of taste.

I have a kindred soul...

 

And for the record. I think that getting through a Campaign after beating it once (like say your HD just got skragged by a magnet so you got a new one) is also a "legit" cheat.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Calax

[Oerwinde]

I tend to cheat a lot in games because I don't like certain parts of games. RPGs for instance, I tend to cheat and give myself crazy equipment or stats because I don't like combat and want to get through it as fast as possible so I can get on with the story.

[Kaftan Barlast]

Games used to be alot harder, but these days, publishers are very concerned not to frighten away this mysterious group of people dubbed "casual gamers". So what used to be normal difficulty 5 years ago, is now hard, and todays easy is really just a cakewalk

[SteveThaiBinh]

Making cheats available through a 'console' (as in Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights, for example) is one way for PC gamers to get around bugs/glitches until a decent patch comes (if it ever does).

[metadigital]

Games used to be harder, yes, but that was back when the next level of Pacman or Space Invaders was just the same as the last level, only a bit faster and with less margin for error for the player; games didn't really "end", one playing was just able to play past the point where the developer was able to reasonably place the most difficult starting point, and "clock the game". This emphasized the whole point of the game: to provide an amusing diversion that continually challenged the player.

 

Also, the gaming industry has (necessarily) broadened to include people who have next to no shared traits with nerds. This means that there are ability levels wider than just "obsessive" and "obsessive AND compulsive".

 

If you don't like how easy a game is, just ramp up the difficulty. Or don't use a particular feature that you feel makes the game "too easy".

 

As for cheats, I recall being able to crash the Apple ][ and edit the machine code address space to give my avatar 99 of every little silly ingredient (tassels anyone?) so that the PC could create whatever spells in Ultima ][.

 

As I see it, Calax, from your post you aren't against using cheats and don't have a problem with the new competition dimensions ("damage taken" etc), and would even participate eventually if the game was of significant interest to you (I'm thinking an RTS).

 

I agree.

[Dark_Raven]

Cheats and cheating, nothing wrong with that. Whatever it takes to win or get the upper hand.

 

 

 

Except godmode, that is boring.

[Volourn]

"Games used to be alot harder,"

 

Nah. i simply disagree.

 

Anyways, cheating doesn't bother me. It's not a big dal. if you playu M,P, and someone cheats, don't play with them. People whine too much about what others are doing.

[Xard]

"Games used to be alot harder,"

 

Nah. i simply disagree.

 

Anyways, cheating doesn't bother me. It's not a big dal. if you playu M,P, and someone cheats, don't play with them. People whine too much about what others are doing.

 

Yeah, that's exactly what you can do when public servers are all full with cheaters

 

And games were harder. Just pick any old Mario, Castlevania etc. and you'll notice it

[Tale]

My sister beat the original Mario. I can't say they were harder.

 

Some of the old Castlevania games weren't simply "hard" they were retarded. They expected you to throw Holy Water on every little block you came across. Considering you were walking on them, that's a lot of blocks. I recall there was one, where to progress through the game you had to do some silly complicated move that is never referenced anywhere and makes no contextual sense.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Tale

[metadigital]

There was no save game (or even pause) on the earlier games ...

[Xard]

One link tells more than 1000 words

 

Although that is VERY retarted, I have to admit

[Volourn]

"And games were harder. Just pick any old Mario, Castlevania etc. and you'll notice it"

 

That must explain how little kiddies could beat old games. L0L

[Deraldin]

One link tells more than 1000 words

 

Although that is VERY retarted, I have to admit

 

That was the funniest movie I've seen linked in a long time.

[Xard]

"And games were harder. Just pick any old Mario, Castlevania etc. and you'll notice it"

 

That must explain how little kiddies could beat old games. L0L

 

Age =/= skill

[ramza]

One link tells more than 1000 words

 

Although that is VERY retarted, I have to admit

 

That was the funniest movie I've seen linked in a long time.

 

HAHAHA, OMG, that was so hilarious and so familiar at the same time!!!

 

There's one thing he didn't know though... there is a way to avoid all the obstacles and move through the entire level by walking on the ceiling. It's amazing I remembered that after all this time...

[Musopticon?]

That was some Korean-made fan video, the guy just talked over it.

[Wistrik]

I never had to cheat on games in the 1980s and early 1990s, but since then some games seem to target hardcore players with heroic gaming skills. I, being a casual gamer looking to relax/escape after a long day of work and traffic, am not interested in beating a contrived time limit, discovering the secret to beating an impossible creature, finding a way to deal with an insta-kill cheese feature (the latter two usually accomplished by means of repeated death and reloading), or making my way up some competitive ladder. Games that use the save/reload crutch as part of their difficulty setting quickly become tedious. Therefore, if I can't easily modify what irks me about a game, I'll use cheat codes.

 

I've become somewhat proficient with picking warning words out of reviews and box covers, thus avoiding games more likely to give me a headache than a fun time. When a reviewer says combat is "challenging", that means it'll probably be tediously difficult for me in some respect. If I really like the game's story and environment, and cheat codes are published, then I may purchase a copy anyway and play it my way. Otherwise I pass and look for something potentially less annoying.

 

Games that emphasize non-combative problem solving, questing, adventure, and story tend to be my favorites. I never have to resort to cheats or modifications to enjoy them.

Edited June 7, 2007 by Wistrik

[Qwerty the Sir]

Cheats:Hans()/Ctrl-J and CLUAConsole:ExploreArea() are just necessities when you're replaying those Infinity Engine games, and sometimes it's fun to give a small stat boost or get an nice item.

[Dark_Raven]

That they are. The most used cheat for me is CLUAConsole:ExploreArea(). I don't like the pretty scenery being blacked out.

[Volourn]

"Age =/= skill"

 

Sorry; but games that can be beat by a 2 year with no help from an adult are easy.

[Calax]

Meta:

 

Your not dead on in your assumptions, but then your not completely off base.

 

My main problem is that with the advent of the Achievements cheat codes and such have been all but eradicated in order to allow for achievements that would be invalidated by cheats. And while the idea is FANTASTIC for fostering desire in your system (by having people match their gamer scores against one another) It's also what's leading the charge to remove any method of easy victory other than grinding your bum off early on so your a good sight stronger than most of your opponents.

 

Volo:

there is not a two year old in this world who can actually play a game of the complexity of those old NES games and expect to beat them. Hell an 8 y/o would probably have a problem beating them. The easing of game difficulties was done in an attempt to get more people to get into games. And despite what your ego would tell you, you aren't the center of the universe. Nor are you typical of a gamer of any kind.