fallout 3

[J.E. Sawyer]

I just prefer click-to-move over directional keys, and figured since fallout 1 and 2, and hell even fallout: tactics had it, they just might try to stay true to the predecessors. No idea why I would have had hope they would stay true to the predecessors.

Hmm. Oblivion engine, click to move. Sounds like a totally irrational assumption given what Todd Howard has continually said about their approach to the camera style/view of the world they were considering.

[Oerwinde]

I just prefer click-to-move over directional keys, and figured since fallout 1 and 2, and hell even fallout: tactics had it, they just might try to stay true to the predecessors. No idea why I would have had hope they would stay true to the predecessors.

Hmm. Oblivion engine, click to move. Sounds like a totally irrational assumption given what Todd Howard has continually said about their approach to the camera style/view of the world they were considering.

 

I know. I was just really trying to hold on to hope that they wouldn't screw it up. The fact that Todd Howard contradicted himself all the time didn't help coming to terms with Fallout 3's inevitible ****tiness, because there was always that one little beam of hope when he says "nothing is decided yet" a couple days after saying they aren't going to do turn based.

[mkreku]

Weapon degradation worked well in STALKER so I'm definitely not worried about that part. I wish we'd instead get to see some of the dialogue and writing from Fallout 3, but that's something we won't be seeing until the game is released sometime in 2008. That's my biggest worry. Bethesda still has a lot to prove in the writing category.

[Pop]

Like what the other peoples said, I'm fine with weapon degradation so long as it's not akin to STALKER's, ie, you can't fix your broken stuff.

 

What I'm expecting is a repurposing of the alchemy system in Oblivion towards repairing in Fallout 3. You find certain parts and gadgets and you combine them with a weapon or an item to repair it. That seems like the most straightforward option, besides multitool-like all purpose parts. Honestly, Fallout's applied skills were a little weird in that the vast majority of them didn't need any equipment to work. You could just fix a broken power generator with some know-how and your bare hands.

[Oerwinde]

Weapon degradation worked well in STALKER so I'm definitely not worried about that part. I wish we'd instead get to see some of the dialogue and writing from Fallout 3, but that's something we won't be seeing until the game is released sometime in 2008. That's my biggest worry. Bethesda still has a lot to prove in the writing category.

 

Who needs writing when its open ended!?!

[Pidesco]

Writing is for the weak.

[metadigital]

I like equipment degradation. On conditions:

 

1) No special one-time weapons.

2) If 1, I can repair them completely.

The recoilless M72 LAW bazooka is a single-use weapon.

 

(Of course we like the 8.8-cm Raketenpanzerb

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Writing is for the weak.

 

And reading is for those that lack imagination!

[Aram]

I'll postpone my judgement of the game until I find out if we can load our own ammunition.

[metadigital]

DIY munitions FTW!

[Slowtrain]

Writing is for the weak.

 

And reading is for those that lack imagination!

 

 

Reading is for books.

[Tale]

I like equipment degradation. On conditions:

 

1) No special one-time weapons.

2) If 1, I can repair them completely.

The recoilless M72 LAW bazooka is a single-use weapon.

 

(Of course we like the 8.8-cm Raketenpanzerb

[Pop]

Ah, well, if they're randomizing merchant inventories that shouldn't be a problem. There were only a few one-time weapons in the Fallout games and they had to do with pulse energy, right?

[Enoch]

I wish we'd instead get to see some of the dialogue and writing from Fallout 3, but that's something we won't be seeing until the game is released sometime in 2008. That's my biggest worry. Bethesda still has a lot to prove in the writing category.

I concur. From the article, their heart seems to be in the right place, with the talk about the primarily quest-based XP system, better NPCs, and conflicting questlines. But it remains to be seen whether they can actually pull it off. Generally, I liked most of what I read-- the POV options are fine with me, so long as the combat targeting isn't done in real-time. Plus, I'm a local, so the heresy of the DC setting is a plus in my book.

[Cantousent]

Equipment degradation is fine by me granted that it provides more than boasting rights for the guys who like to play a one legged dwarven thief with sleep apnea. If equipment degradation is based on resource management, I'm down with it. If it's meant to impose some arbitrary line of "realism," then I'm pretty much against it.

 

The big factor, for me, is what it does to the game. If it intrudes on the fun factor by require long detours for fixing equipment or takes away all of my favorite equipment midway through the game, it will cease being fun and become monotonous. If degradation adds to my fun by giving me another factor to consider during my adventures that I can address with sufficient forsight, then I can see a lot of potential in the idea.

 

A lot of games have item degradation, from WoW to STALKER. It's not like this concept has not made it's way into games I've already played. I don't hate the very idea of item degradation, but I'm leery of it.

[Sand]

The two main things that I wanted to see in Fallout 3 is not going to be in the game so I don't see why I should postpone my judgement of the game. Man, I wish Obsidian was doing this game instead of Todd Howard and his cronies. AT LEAST PEEPS AT Obsidian know what Fallout is all about unlike Bethesda.

[Tale]

AT LEAST PEEPS AT Obsidian know what Fallout is all about unlike Bethesda.

 

Post apoc and retrofuture?

Edited June 18, 2007 by Tale

[Sand]

AT LEAST PEEPS AT Obsidian know what Fallout is all about unlike Bethesda.

 

Post apoc and retrofuture?

That is just the surface. I am talking about emulating PnP gaming feel on the PC. That is the main reasons why I loved the first 2 Fallouts. The rules system, the turn base combat, the way how the icons on the screen operated as minitures on the grid, and so forth. That is why I loved Fallout 1 and 2. Bethesda stripped what made Fallout 1 and 2 fun for me. Totally destroyed the PnP flavor of the game.

Edited June 18, 2007 by Sand

[dunniteowl]

Weapon degradation is a tricky subject to "get right". I mean, after all, most of the times in a reality based situation, you find out something is no longer working when you attempt to use it, not during a simple equipment check back where all the parts or replacements are handy, right? It's like getting a flat tire, there isn't really a good time or place to have one, but if it occurs overnight in your garage, it's a lot more manageable.

 

It would be nice to know that, in order for your guns to keep working properly, you had to click a box that said you were going to clean and oil it when it came time to do so. And if you could be aware of the chances of failure of a weapon based on use, repair and cleaning, then the degradation thing wouldn't be so bad.

 

It would be like, say, you knew that every 120 rounds of ammo degraded your M-16 another 2%, increasing the chance of a gun-jam, but after cleaning and oiling the gun, it would drop a tad (like a percent maybe) and as use increases, the percentage rises accordingly. In a future RPG, especially one where you carry a wrist computer, there should be a relatively high chance of you knowing to some close idea when a weapon is likely, or at least more likely, to have trouble via normal wear and tear.

 

Getting knocked ass end over tea kettle by an opponent, though, could end with a catastrophic failure of your currently held weapon (stock breaks in half, firing pin and trigger sear broken, etc.) and nothing can be done about it until later. Having a backup weapon makes a lot of sense like that. Also, with weapons you just found laying around and have to use on the fly, there could be a real sense of failure when picking it up in the middle of a fight, only to find it's out of ammo, or totally busted when you picked it up. Then again, even an empty hunting rifle can double as a mace.

 

As to repair of weapons, I should think that you could do this based on Intelligence and experience, with skills specifically geared to such things that would enhance your ability to repair things. It would also make sense, in this devastated wasteland of a world, that parts wouldn't just be plentiful, though possibly repair materials (which could be either poor, decent, good, fine and excellent in quality) could be jerry rigged from other items pulled from the wreckage that's as often as not, all around you.

 

Maybe something like:

Intelligence +

Scavenging

Weapon Smith (small arms)

General Repair (mechanical)

 

could net you a pretty good bonus on finding replacement parts from the detritus of the years and wreckage and give a better than fair chance of repairing all but the most critically damaged weapons in your possession within the category.

 

Just spitballing, clearly.

 

I have to agree, though, that if it doesn't enhance or create a challenge that is relatively simple to meet, in terms of gameplay, then it could be a total cluster munch and ruin the overall experience. I wouldn't want to have to travel another 20 miles of wasteland just to get a trigger sear to fix my AK-47 would be a bone in terms of gameplay, unless I had a decent backup which made the repair a moot point for the time it takes me to get to a location that can do it for me, or where I can sell the damaged item as scrap for a discount on a working unit. Some system like that would be okie dokie with me as long as there was a way to overcome the challenges on the fly and not make me go way out of my way to do it, or have my character stand there helplessly while the mutant scourges maul me...

 

Game Over, man, game over.

 

If that were to occur, I would wish for it to be from my own miscalculations and not from the fact that the game scragged me in a critical moment by having my last good weapon break -- or having all my useful ones die during the combat before the combat was over. I would be pissed if that happned during the game. I'd be dead if it happened in real life. However, it is a game we're talking about and not a future apocolypse sim to see how well I can survive the series of disasters sent my way.

 

Then again, we really have no idea what kind of degradation/repair dynamic that's going to be thrown in, so all of this is just pure speculation. And being as it's here and not on Bethesda Soft's forums, probably not going to go into the mix for consideration.

 

Time will tell.

 

regards all,

dunniteowl

[Sand]

I don't particularly care for item degradation. It isn't that important. What is important is the setting and the rules system of the game.

 

Nuclear cars. NUCLEAR FREAKING CARS! What the hell are they smoking over there?

[Tigranes]

Item degradation can be done well, yes. The main things it wants to achieve, for me, are:

 

1) Make you carry around back-up weapons; especially melee weapons or more 'mundane' types. So you aren't just carrying around a shotgun roaming the wastes; if it snaps, then you're going to have to resort to backups which are usually worse and force you into more desperate situations, i.e. taking on some gunmen with a backup sledgehammer.

 

2) Impress upon the general atmosphere of resource shortage in terms of food, ammo, money, whatnot. Combined with the fact that the Fallouts have less ammo than the typical fantasy CRPG, you will, not often, but occasionally, be put in situations where you can't just go gung ho with the same weapon / strategy you've used the last 30 battles. I think this kind of thing will help the battles become more interesting and your journey more continuous, as opposed to 'refilling' then coming into the next encounter in exactly the same prisitne condition. It also helps immersion.

 

Obviously, not so much that it becomes a chore. I wonder how everyone thought Oblivion's repair was handled? I thought it was okay but rather dreary.

[Arkan]

Obviously, not so much that it becomes a chore. I wonder how everyone thought Oblivion's repair was handled? I thought it was okay but rather dreary.

 

 

That's exactly why I'm worried...

[Pop]

I think that repairing was one of the many things in Oblivion that wasn't abjectly terrible but could have been a lot better had some time been put into it. The big problem with the game for me was that it seemed like they tried to throw as much as they could into it and never bothered to really explore everything. It came out like a mile-wide kiddie pool. Hopefully they'll focus this time around.

[kirottu]

AT LEAST PEEPS AT Obsidian know what Fallout is all about unlike Bethesda.

 

Post apoc and retrofuture?

That is just the surface. I am talking about emulating PnP gaming feel on the PC. That is the main reasons why I loved the first 2 Fallouts. The rules system, the turn base combat, the way how the icons on the screen operated as minitures on the grid, and so forth. That is why I loved Fallout 1 and 2. Bethesda stripped what made Fallout 1 and 2 fun for me. Totally destroyed the PnP flavor of the game.

 

The only way Bethseda is going to make Hades happy is to send him free copy of Fallout 3, but instead of computer game it holds couple of sheets of paper, dices, and piece of note saying "You

[Pop]

So so sigged.