KotoR 3: Ideas, Suggestions, Discussion, Part 23

[pantherus]

MMO can be discussed, just not in this thread - K3 will not be an MMO - period

[DeathScepter]

New customers to KotOR video game franchise = new KotOR III PC. There is no other option. Besides, it's for the best.

 

 

That is to the hardcore fans vs. casual players.

 

 

 

Most of the Star Wars Eu is flooded with over the top UBER force users. Before too long, Star Wars will become Dragonball Z due to the fact of the over the top Uber fighters can blow up planets.

 

 

Cell, Buu and Goku are within the top 5 DBZ fighters and their abilities would shame even Darth Nihilus.

 

 

By having over the top UBERS, the storyline will start to falter. The Cell Saga was when the DBZ took the dive in story quality because A) the villian was too perfect of a fighter B) too many of the heroes are insanely powerful.

 

 

So ever once in the while having a hero is over powered is alright but in a short time span will get absurd.

 

 

 

Comes down to it, IT is very much cliche' to have your characters too powerful.

[Lazdude]

My guess is Kotor III is the Duke Nukem Forever of Star Wars. It has probably been in secret developement for years - either because they can't keep up or they havn't got a good window of opportunity to release it in.

[SilentScope001]

Most of the Star Wars Eu is flooded with over the top UBER force users. Before too long, Star Wars will become Dragonball Z due to the fact of the over the top Uber fighters can blow up planets.

 

What makes you think Revan and Exile are Uber Force Users?

 

All we know about Revan's skills is that he's a "great" general. I don't believe it, most people do, fine. Revan is a great general. That's it.

 

All the Exile can do is defeat some Jedi Council members and resist Nihilus' drain. Exile has a special talent of Force Bonds, but it is foolish to believe that special talent suddenly makes him a very powerful Jedi.

 

Revan and Exile can both be defeated, and probraly can be defeated by the original Jedi Masters...as long as biases in favor of Exile and Revan (really just biases in favor of the player's egos) are discarded.

 

Neither Revan and Exile are uberpowerful, and I doubt the third KOTOR PC would be 'uber' as well, considering the fact that both Players are only 'powerful' in term of gameplay, and that is being done because the developers want to make the game easy for us to play.

Edited September 11, 2007 by SilentScope001

[Mad_Scientist]

Most of the Star Wars Eu is flooded with over the top UBER force users. Before too long, Star Wars will become Dragonball Z due to the fact of the over the top Uber fighters can blow up planets.

 

What makes you think Revan and Exile are Uber Force Users?

 

All we know about Revan's skills is that he's a "great" general. I don't believe it, most people do, fine. Revan is a great general. That's it.

 

All the Exile can do is defeat some Jedi Council members and resist Nihilus' drain. Exile has a special talent of Force Bonds, but it is foolish to believe that special talent suddenly makes him a very powerful Jedi.

 

Revan and Exile can both be defeated, and probraly can be defeated by the original Jedi Masters...as long as biases in favor of Exile and Revan (really just biases in favor of the player's egos) are discarded.

 

Neither Revan and Exile are uberpowerful, and I doubt the third KOTOR PC would be 'uber' as well, considering the fact that both Players are only 'powerful' in term of gameplay, and that is being done because the developers want to make the game easy for us to play.

 

Revan at least is fairly powerful, at least according to just about every single person in the games who ever knew him in the slightest. It's hard to judge his relative power compared to Sith Lords and Jedi of other times though. That Rodian on the space station didn't think ether Revan or Malak were as strong as Exar Kun, though Exar Kun was apparently really strong, so that's not much of a criticism. Plus the Rodian never knew Revan's strength at his prime. (By the end game, according to Malak, Revan was even stronger than during his reign as the Dark Lord)

 

The exile, it's harder to know. We don't have a KotORIII, so we don't have as many comments about the Exile's strength to go on. He/she defeated 3 powerful Sith Lords, but there were special circumstances involving the defeat of Sion and Nihilus, and Kreia may not have been that strong in pure 1 on 1 combat anymore. Still, the Exile did something fairly impressive.

 

All in all, I'd say both Revan and the Exile were very strong, but I wouldn't say either was super-overpowered uber DBZ force users or anything.

Edited September 11, 2007 by Mad_Scientist

[Lazdude]

But really, how do you define being "strong" or "powerful"? Those are fairly broad terms, because alot of things have to be taken into considderation; their lightsaber skills, force mastery, diplomatic ability, willpower, passion, drive, loyalty, so many things. Its impossible to really compare one Jedi to another as all are unique in their own way, and one person's strength is another person's weakness.

 

To me for example, true "strength" means to be able to resist the dark side at every turn. To another however, "powerful" means being able to kill a Sith Lord. Its all in the eye of the beholder.

[Tale]

Despite Vader's claims about "the power of the Force" being so much immensely more powerful than the Death Star all we really see from the movies is droids being knocked back, lightning firing out of fingers that's almost as good as a taser, and a force choke that, while it has range, seems to only have the choking ability as a normal hand.

 

So, I'd definitely say that force users who with a flick of their hand and barely a thought kill entire groups of people might qualify as "uber." Anyone showing significantly more power than was displayed in any of the movies could reasonably be designated so.

[szioul]

http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=20373

 

No real sources mentioned, so...

[Mad_Scientist]

http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=20373

 

No real sources mentioned, so...

 

I'm highly doubtful about that. KotORIII and KotOR MMO rumors have been going around for ages now, so until I hear something with a really good source (IE and Obsidian exec posting on these boards that they're working on a new Star Wars RPG that will make many people happy, or Bioware posts a press release on their site saying they are doing a KotOR MMO), I'm not going to believe it.

[Omelette]

http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=20373

 

No real sources mentioned, so...

*Yawn*

 

Nothing I haven't seen already. More poppy****.

[Guest The Architect]

^ Poppy ****. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.

 

Yeah anyway, well yeah, there's no questioning people have different interpretations of what power means Lazdude, but as far as Star Wars goes, power, at least as far as Force users go anyway, is about how strong someone is in the Force.

 

Now DeathScepter, I understand your argument, but I don't agree with it, and I'll explain why.

 

Look at it this way, how many Jedi do you think there were around the time of the Mandalorian Wars? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Well either way, at minimum, you

[DeathScepter]

Well Revan and Exile are consider equal but opposites. Revan is consider to be like to the Heart of the Force and the Exile the Death of the Force.

 

 

Also anyone that use the Thought Bomb(Revan developed it and thru Bane, Kaan learned it as well despite there was an interesting designed Flaw in that holocron).

 

 

Vander is just a clone of Yoda and Yoda is a lvl 20 Jedi.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I want Revan to be back as the PC again, so he can get his ass handed to him and the PC part because I like enjoy playing as Revan again. As for the Exile, I have an working idea how she will be an Co PC to Revan.

 

I do have some of their possible relationship work out regardless of alignment.

 

 

Well They are both students of Kreia and they have learned their lessons well from her.

 

 

PM me if you want to further understanding of my insanity.

Edited September 13, 2007 by DeathScepter

[Dark Wastl]

I don't remember any comment from the game where Revan and the Exile were considered equal. Kreia made the heart/death comparison, but she never mentioned anything about them being equal in any regard.

 

I don't think that there are all that many all-powerful characters around, and even if they would be, it's not that unreasonable. As a comparison, think of sports. I don't know how many of you have any idea of hockey, but the two most dominant forwards of all time were around at pretty much the same time. Things like that can happen, nothing can stop talent from coming up at the same time. There is no reason to expect the best in some regard to be distributed equally over time.

 

Though I have to say that many EU-authors came up with some really stupid ideas to make their characters more powerful. KOTOR III wouldn't need such a badguy, nor such a main character, both can be powerful without giving them extreme powers, see the first KOTOR.

[Darth Mortis]

It's not unreasonable to have powerful-or at the least very skilled-individuals as the protaganists in SW games. Using the example given for sports its worth considering that the more skilled sportsmen/woman tend to be better known than the rest of the team they play with, and there are always people who will argue that they in fact are not all that good but just get better press. (David Beckham plays for LA Galaxy, but does anyone know the names of the rest of that team?)

 

While saying that Revan and the Exile were probably quite skilled/powerful would be fair comment, it shouldn't be forgotten that most of the time they were part of a team. (Sticking to cannon for both characters) Revan would never have left Taris without the help of Bastila and Carth, or escaped the Leviathan, or been able to fight his way through the Starforge.

 

The Exile would never have been able to re-learn the force were it not for Kreia, and it was because of Kreia, Atton and T3 that she was able to escape Peragus, Bao-Dur helped them find the Academy on Telos and the Hawk. Without help from the rest of the team the Exile would never have been able to stop the Sith on Duxn from destroying Onderon, and wound in the force or not the Exile needed the help of Visas and Mandolore to destroy Nihius.

 

The best force users in SW tend to the more 'realistic' ones, in that while they might be powerful and able to finish off the threat in the end they either don't do so alone, or they can only get to the final fight with help. Consider the original films, although Luke is remembered for destroying the first deathstar it shouldn't be forgot that he had a lot of help-Wedge and Biggs provided flying shields, and of course Han turned up at the last minute-in both cases they bought time for Luke to be the hero. If we skip forward to return of the Jedi it becomes clear that while Luke did free Han from Jabba, he didn't do so alone and in the end the two major bag guys there (Bobo Fett and Jabba) were taken down by Han and Leia not Luke. Its even clearer later on that the only role Luke had in destroying the last Deathstar was helping to convince the Ewoks to help the Rebels, after this point nothing he did had any effect on the rest of the mission. Even Sith Lords can be considered as part of a team, Vader, Palpatine, Exar Kun and the like had armies to fall back on after all.

 

The problem with EU force users is that to many of the writers forget this, and write force users that work alone or who manage to overcome all problems without any help what-so-ever, this frequently seems to be the case with the Bad guys rather than the Heros. The better writers seem to understand this. After all in real life a single person can't be said to win a soccer match, even if they score all the goals there are other people on the pitch helping them.

[pantherus]

Architect hit the nail on the head with his comment about the Exile - asides from the 'wound' in the force and force bonds things, (s)he was a thoroughly average jedi - remember the recording of Vrook saying this? - who just happens to do uber powerful things because they're the PC of a video game, and you can't have PC's being weak gits now can you?

 

DeathScepter - while the thought of playing as Revan appeals to many, many people; it would be very difficult to realistically implement. Do you start him/her at lvl 20? lvl 1? If anything other than 20 (around where you finish K1 as) then why have you dropped to a lower level? Then of course you'll have everyone booing at some cliche excuse for this: you stopped training for a while and, like, got worse...; captured and tortured and, like, forgot stuff...didn't they already use that one?

 

Finally - who/what IS Revan? Everyone keeps saying "I want to play as Revan!" and "I want to play as the Exile!" - but who are they, really? Do you want to play them having been light-side? dark-side? What companions did they have? Did they make romantic attachments? What gender? What class(es) did they take? There are so many factors to take into account that you might as well play a whole new character...In fact, assuming that K3 will include more classes/races/etc to choose from in character development, what are the chances that the 'Revan' you create/use for 3 will be the same one you used in K1 (and how many different 'Revans' did you make in K1)?

 

Playing as a whole new character (and I stand by my opinion that it should be some generic character who was in the right place to do something great, rather than 'The Chosen One!!!') enables much more streamlined changeover into the new game, and also allows for potential cameo appearances by Revan and/or Exile in the game - which you can either set to be male/female and ls/ds or just use the canon from LA (which a lot of people won't like).

 

I actually rather like the idea of finding them dead along the way - and you are able to do what they couldn't because you were better prepared in some way - that could also eliminate problems of "but MY Revan wouldn't have done that!!!".

 

There are so many different opinions of how to do it, that the developers will just have to pick one and go with it - and deal with the fact that some people might not like it. Let's face it, whichever way they go in nuances like that, it'll still be a great game

 

Finally - I would like to reiterate my earlier request that character development be expanded to NWN levels

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Why strangle someone's neck with the force when you cn simply crack it and kill him easily?

Why Force push droids when you can simply break certain parts of their body, like force choke?

Why push back someone when you can stop his heart?

 

Use of the force through movies and games has been so weak.

[DeathScepter]

Architect hit the nail on the head with his comment about the Exile - asides from the 'wound' in the force and force bonds things, (s)he was a thoroughly average jedi - remember the recording of Vrook saying this? - who just happens to do uber powerful things because they're the PC of a video game, and you can't have PC's being weak gits now can you?

 

DeathScepter - while the thought of playing as Revan appeals to many, many people; it would be very difficult to realistically implement. Do you start him/her at lvl 20? lvl 1? If anything other than 20 (around where you finish K1 as) then why have you dropped to a lower level? Then of course you'll have everyone booing at some cliche excuse for this: you stopped training for a while and, like, got worse...; captured and tortured and, like, forgot stuff...didn't they already use that one?

 

Finally - who/what IS Revan? Everyone keeps saying "I want to play as Revan!" and "I want to play as the Exile!" - but who are they, really? Do you want to play them having been light-side? dark-side? What companions did they have? Did they make romantic attachments? What gender? What class(es) did they take? There are so many factors to take into account that you might as well play a whole new character...In fact, assuming that K3 will include more classes/races/etc to choose from in character development, what are the chances that the 'Revan' you create/use for 3 will be the same one you used in K1 (and how many different 'Revans' did you make in K1)?

 

Playing as a whole new character (and I stand by my opinion that it should be some generic character who was in the right place to do something great, rather than 'The Chosen One!!!') enables much more streamlined changeover into the new game, and also allows for potential cameo appearances by Revan and/or Exile in the game - which you can either set to be male/female and ls/ds or just use the canon from LA (which a lot of people won't like).

 

I actually rather like the idea of finding them dead along the way - and you are able to do what they couldn't because you were better prepared in some way - that could also eliminate problems of "but MY Revan wouldn't have done that!!!".

 

There are so many different opinions of how to do it, that the developers will just have to pick one and go with it - and deal with the fact that some people might not like it. Let's face it, whichever way they go in nuances like that, it'll still be a great game

 

Finally - I would like to reiterate my earlier request that character development be expanded to NWN levels

 

 

 

 

Well my ideas of Revan training would be on the lines of self training and getting back into shape. But there would be no knowledge losted for him. A good year of torture would exhaust even the mightiest of heroes. So the self training would be his own form of leveling up during gameplay. Also he would have many training partners.

 

As for Revan's past, I was thinking about a combination of dialgoue tree during the scene with the prisoner in the next cell and a questionaire during character creation.

 

 

As for the character creation, it will be a tad bit higher for character creation. As in more feats, skill points and force powers to play with.

 

My angst towards the Revan fanboys is quite high and them making Revan a god drives me nuts.

 

 

As for the Exile, She will be introduced in the mid of the game and her character creation like Revans will be more flexible and she will not have any lvl loss but she will be at least the lvl of Revan when they meet up.

 

 

Both of their character creations will be at the start of the game and within the character creation, both of them will have a questionaire within that will influence the dialgoues about their respective histories.

 

 

 

 

Also with the new customer once they get interested will be influneced to get the first two games. Personally I do want Obsidian and Bioware to keep reaping the rewards of both Kotor 1 and 2. For both of them are good games due to story.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For I remain,

 

A kotor fanboy.

[Lord Phoenix]

For I remain,

 

A kotor fanboy.

 

HERE HERE!!

 

All these idea's are getting me drooling amounts i didn't think possible! If KOTOR III does come out anything like half of the ideas here,i'll happily die after playing it

[Sturm]

Now why would you do that?

A lot of these suggestions are limitless and some are really pedantic and incoherent, but on the other hand they do make valued points about what would be good in a story, what would be good eye candy, what would be good for combat etc.

*Hypothetically* If I was a dev for KotOR3 and I had to take all this into consideration, or just make the game free will think of what the fans would be like "Hey they didnt put my magical unicorn on Coruscant! WTF!"

There is quite a lot of things to take into account already, story for one thing would be very difficult, K2 left a lot of things out as it was uncompleted but still managed to feed us a bit about what happened, however it is just making the hole even bigger at some point they are going to have to answer us fans the questions we all seek in one game or another. Alternatively LA could just take the coward way out and not do it at all, and leave us hungry and thats what I see they'll do just 'forget' about it.

But then again, there are a lot of KotOR fans and this is a good franchise, so I dont think they'll overlook it yet.

Edited September 15, 2007 by Sturm

[Zippy4110]

This has probably been suggested before, but I say go to the whole Exar Kun war thing. Maybe play as Exar Kun's friend (kinda like Malak) but choose if you're going to fight him or join him (him turning would happen early on in the game). Another suggestion is (I'm absolutely sure that this has been suggested) playing during the Mandalorian Wars, and maybe play as another general and have Revan and Exile as NPCs. HK-47 could be in this one! Also (most definitely suggested before): Let's go to Coruscant!

 

Non-plot things:

 

Lightsaber colors: Lime green, maroon (my friend actually suggested this to me), rust (kinda like HK-47's body color), Malachor Green (the color of the fog/steam/magical mist coming out of Malachor), light purple (Indigo for name, maybe?), black, and <can't think of name> the color of the exposed Peragus Core

 

Lightsaber Hilt: Maybe Curved (like Dooku or Bane), or some sort of ranged thing, like a blaster that shoots lightsaber bolts. Also, a lightwhip (Legacy of the Force, Lumiya, or Path of Destruction, that one girl), a light-rapier (some sort of thin lightsaber, maybe?), and some sort of long lightsaber (name maybe lightspear, lightlance, longsaber, or something)

 

Blasters: I can't remember if there are any grenade-launching things other than Mira's, so maybe a grenade launcher like hers or an actual gun. Also, some sort of machine-gun blaster, and maybe some sort of heavy-artillery blaster that does lots of damage, but is easy to miss with or gives kickback or something, and for any other suggestions, model a gun of one of the Halo games (Halo people, please don't sue me)

 

Planets: As mentioned before, Coruscant, Hoth, Endor, maybe the other sith home planet (can't remember the name, maybe it starts with a "P" or a "Q", Yavin 4, the Star Forge planet again, Utapau, Naboo, or whatever the Mon Calamari homeplanet is

 

Other: (No chance this hasn't been suggested before) Other species other than human! 'Course, that would make the relationships close to impossible...

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Check out my friend and my story! It's funny! (at least my version of his story is)

 

http://www.freewebs.com/carrotmanfunny

Edited September 19, 2007 by Zippy4110

[Neurion]

to be honest after all these threads and stuff related to all the avid fans of the KOTOR games and the franchise itself - i personally am at a loss as to how dumb lucasarts actually is - KOTOR 1 was awesome and KOTOR 2 was Fantastic - cant that see that we need a trilogy? we have to find out what happens to revan and the exile!! its important to us and damn well should be to lucasarts if they look at their own forums sometime - theres a hell of a load of people on there who would die for another KOTOR to be made - for christ sake GL - just open your damn eyes - we need another game - personally i think that Obsidian and Bioware are some of the best in the world - having worked on some of the image processing (cloud covering and amateur stuff) for some big name games like Lord of the Rings Battle for Middle Earth and wrote some of the triggers for Galactic Battlegrounds - i can honestly say that Obsidian and Bioware are the best in the buisness for this type of gaming

 

so please GL and both brands - just do us all a favour and create us another masterpiece

 

they stopped working on the game because they were laying off employees because they thought the brand was selling itself out too much - did you ever hear us lot complaining bout stuff like that? us who watched the original trilogy for years before Ep. 1 came out? us who queued for 6 hours to watch the premiere of Episode 3 just to let it all fall into place

 

we all love Star Wars, we all remember playing around in the back garden or in the playground as a kid pretending to be Han and perving on Leia in that Metal bikini - star wars is so much past a franchise now - its a whole cult of its own - and we love it. so dont think that by satisfying thousands of kids, you are selling out a brand - your not - you're perfecting a masterpiece of work. I spent 7 hours last week with a huge block of plasticine - i recreated the Ebon Hawk out of it from a pic off the net and its sat in my bedroom - painted up properly and everythin so i can look at it and wish to hear what happens to it.

So tell us, tell me, tell the fans the rest of the story - and dont ever stop a masterpiece like this.

[Neurion]

i think they should have a whole new first person shooter based on the Mandalorian and Jedi civil wars

kinda like battlefront but first or third person, with all the storyline, easy editing for scripters (like me only a hundredfold better lol), and it has to have huge space battles with all the huge cruisers and dreadnaughts

 

They could have a whole new series like that, so like a chronicles of all the eras of Star Wars

Star Wars Chronicles

and in episodes too or eras hehe

 

but defo a mandalorian war one - with basilisks and T-wings - and my fav., hammerhead cruisers like the Endar Spire or Harbinger =P

just a thought but im dead passionate bout Star Wars - loved it for years

 

so lucasarts if you're listening - heres my idea lol

 

whos with me??

kudos anyone? lol

[DeathScepter]

I do think you can start a thread dedicated to Mandalorian Wars and the FPS game.

Edited September 22, 2007 by DeathScepter

[DAWUSS]

we all love Star Wars, we all remember playing around in the back garden or in the playground as a kid pretending to be Han and perving on Leia in that Metal bikini - star wars is so much past a franchise now - its a whole cult of its own - and we love it. so dont think that by satisfying thousands of kids, you are selling out a brand - your not - you're perfecting a masterpiece of work. I spent 7 hours last week with a huge block of plasticine - i recreated the Ebon Hawk out of it from a pic off the net and its sat in my bedroom - painted up properly and everythin so i can look at it and wish to hear what happens to it.

So tell us, tell me, tell the fans the rest of the story - and dont ever stop a masterpiece like this.

 

 

I've kinda wondered what happened to the Ebon Hawk before it came into Revan's possession

[Lord Phoenix]

it belonged to that guy on telos..was it Davik?think so.Revan stole it from him so he could escape telos with bastilla and co'