Do you prefer the Fantasy genre for CRPG's ?

[Dark_Raven]

So DR, Shadowrun isn't fantasy? <_<

Never heard of it.

 

 

 

@ those who don't know what fantasy is....... :aiee:

[Calax]

Star Wars isn't attached to the fantasy Genre... if it was than you'd have to put everything thats got just a little bit of stuff that doesn't exsist into that catagory (Jak and Daxter, God of War, Ghost Recon, Company of Heroes, Warhammer 40k,Zone of the Enders) while the only ones who don't get jam packed into that catagory are Sports, and Ultra realistic games that come out once in a blue moon.

[metadigital]

Dues Ex is REAL!

[Tale]

Star Wars isn't attached to the fantasy Genre... if it was than you'd have to put everything thats got just a little bit of stuff that doesn't exsist into that catagory (Jak and Daxter, God of War, Ghost Recon, Company of Heroes, Warhammer 40k,Zone of the Enders) while the only ones who don't get jam packed into that catagory are Sports, and Ultra realistic games that come out once in a blue moon.

Star Wars isn't just a little "fantasy." One of the main features of the game are wizards that fling around magic. It's about as much fantasy as D&D, it even has dragons. Though their dragons are a bit more sci-fi appropriate. The Jedi are not.

 

God of War is definitely fantasy.

Warhammer 40k is obviously fantasy, too.

Jak and Daxter is fantasy.

 

Never played Ghost Recon, Company of Heroes, and barely remember ZoE.

 

Most things can fit somewhat into fantasy. Fantasy isn't an exclusionary classification, it's a descriptor.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Tale

[Big Bottom]

So if everything's fantasy doesn't that leave the term a bit meaningless?

[Volourn]

It means it's too broad. That's why you have terms like Medival (D&D type fantasy games), post acoloyptic fantasy (FO, and the like), Horro/Gothic Fantasy (games like BL).

 

Fantasy, to me, is anything that contains soemthing that simply don't exist in RL as far as well. SW, FO, and BL all contain those type of elements to varying degrees. FO is the closest of the three to NOT being fantasy; but squeaks in, imo. BL is the most obvious of the three to be included in the fantasy grouping. SW is in the middle; but closer to fantasy than not mainly because of the 'force' aka Magic.

[Tale]

So if everything's fantasy doesn't that leave the term a bit meaningless?

Not everything is fantasy. All it means is fantasy is popular.

 

Splinter Cell, the Battlefield games, Hitman, are all not fantasy. I'm inclined to include Unreal, but my exposure to that series is limited. Half-Life. Star Wars when it's not focused on Jedi, such as in Republic Commando or Bounty Hunter (never played Bounty Hunter, I'm assuming).

 

Battlestar Galactica, the supernatural aspects don't play that big a role, in my opinion and I don't include hearing sound in space. Firefly/Serenity, and I'm also tempted to include Farscape. Chronicles of Riddick is fantasy, but not Pitch Black.

 

 

Star Wars isn't Science Fantasy. Science Fantasy would imply that science is used for the fantasy. It's Science Fiction & Fantasy. Depending upon what you're looking at, the specific book, game, movie, or whatever, it will lean towards one or the other. Science Fantasy would be the equivalent of technomages, people who fling around otherwise supernatural powers as the result of scientific advancement.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Tale

[Cantousent]

So if everything's fantasy doesn't that leave the term a bit meaningless?

Well, that's the real dispute. One way of dealing with it is using Vol's reasoning, which serves well enough. I tend to view fantasy as a setting. That's in much the same way as a fictional work might be a mystery, a horror, or a drama. All three probably contain more or less similar elements, but the setting and presentation are going to determine the classification.

 

Gothic romance might include vampires, which makes it a fantasy, but the heavy use of romance conventions will make it a romance. That might well be different from a historical romance which is well researched and contains no supernatural elements.

 

Star Wars might be a fantasy if we equate the use of force powers with magic. I think that's perfectly fair. We could also call it science fiction because of the setting and other elements. Someone earlier mentioned science fantasy, which works well enough, but is probably unnecessary.

 

For my own part, I would classify a work as a fantasy if magic, understood as such, is central to the work and provides the structure of the universe. For instance, even though The Chronicles of Amber starts in a modern setting, I would call it fantasy because the magic is not incidental, but central. By the same token, I would call Star Trek science fiction because, even when the series cited supernatural occurances or powers, they are not central to the overarching universe.

 

Of course, my approach isn't perfect, but there is no perfect way to classify fiction. To give an example, I tend to view magic as something different from supernatural as well. We have vampire stories that fit into the genre of horror. If the vampire casts spells in the story, and the story itself revolves more around the element of fantasy than horror, then it's a fantasy novel. If the vampire kills people and the main thrust of the story is put the reader in suspence or scare them, then it's horror.

 

I understand that folks can make equally valid arguments for other systems, but I'm envisioning walking into your local library or book store and going to a section dedicated to a particular genre. Unless it's a small storefront with a mixed sci-fi/fantasy area, you'll probably find Star Wars and Star Trek in the Science fiction stacks and the Chronicles of Amber and the Belgariad in the Fantasy stacks.

[Big Bottom]

So if everything's fantasy doesn't that leave the term a bit meaningless?

Not everything is fantasy. All it means is fantasy is popular.

 

Splinter Cell, the Battlefield games, Hitman, are all not fantasy. I'm inclined to include Unreal, but my exposure to that series is limited. Half-Life. Star Wars when it's not focused on Jedi, such as in Republic Commando or Bounty Hunter (never played Bounty Hunter, I'm assuming).

 

Battlestar Galactica, the supernatural aspects don't play that big a role, in my opinion and I don't include hearing sound in space. Firefly/Serenity, and I'm also tempted to include Farscape. Chronicles of Riddick, but not Pitch Black.

 

In Half-Life's case it features aliens who shoot green lightning from their fingertips, by the reckoning of many in this thread that falls under the domain of fantasy. That's the problem I have with this way of categorising, fantasy/sci-fi goes from being a useful indicator of the feel of a game to a technical exercise in pigeonholing. Star Wars feels way more like traditional sci-fi than it does like traditional fantasy so I will continue to think of it as such.

[Tale]

So if everything's fantasy doesn't that leave the term a bit meaningless?

Not everything is fantasy. All it means is fantasy is popular.

 

Splinter Cell, the Battlefield games, Hitman, are all not fantasy. I'm inclined to include Unreal, but my exposure to that series is limited. Half-Life. Star Wars when it's not focused on Jedi, such as in Republic Commando or Bounty Hunter (never played Bounty Hunter, I'm assuming).

 

Battlestar Galactica, the supernatural aspects don't play that big a role, in my opinion and I don't include hearing sound in space. Firefly/Serenity, and I'm also tempted to include Farscape. Chronicles of Riddick, but not Pitch Black.

 

In Half-Life's case it features aliens who shoot green lightning from their fingertips, by the reckoning of many in this thread that falls under the domain of fantasy. That's the problem I have with this way of categorising, fantasy/sci-fi goes from being a useful indicator of the feel of a game to a technical exercise in pigeonholing. Star Wars feels way more like traditional sci-fi than it does like traditional fantasy so I will continue to think of it as such.

 

These are specifically aliens. We have creatures in our own world that can discharge electricity, and humans can even do a small amount from static discharge. This is not necessarilly magic.

 

That doesn't mean that humans learning how to fire lightning bolts from their fingertips is not fantastic. This is magic.

 

If you refute Star Wars as fantasy, you should probably also refute Final Fantasy VII as fantasy, as the Force providing the Jedi with their powers has a distinct parallel to Lifestream and materia users.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Tale

[Darque]

So DR, Shadowrun isn't fantasy? <_<

Never heard of it.

 

 

Whoa

 

Do you have electricity in that cave of yours?

[Sand]

Darque, she still uses dial up.

 

r00fles!

[GreasyDogMeat]

I prefer a sci fi setting but since it isn't a common setting in CRPGs it usually isn't a choice. Off the top of my head I can only think of a few pure sci fi CRPGs, the old gold box Buck Rogers games, Fallout and Deus Ex. I'm not even sure you can consider Deus Ex CRPG.

 

If the story is well told and it involves you well then it doesn't really matter whether it is Sci Fi, Fantasy or a combination of the two like the KoTOR series or Arcanum. Originally, I HATED fantasy games. Wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot poll. Then Baldur's Gate came out. It was after Fallout and Fallout had convinced me that RPGs could be a fun genre. So I thought, even though it was fantasy and had elves and dwarves, I would give Baldur's Gate a try. Fallout and Baldur's Gate were 2 of the best gaming 'chances' I took and I've been trying RPGs ever since.

 

The reason it has been so easy to keep getting these D&D RPGs like Icewind Dale, Planescape, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights etc, is because I keep finding high quality storytelling and gameplay in these games. However, sometimes a game comes along that reminds me why I used to avoid RPGs and fantasy settings. One particular game was Temple of Elemental Evil. While I enjoy D&D remakes of old modules and games, the storytelling and writing in the game was horrendous. It sucked all of the fun of the fantasy genre out. It did have a few good points... I liked the turn based combat, the graphics and the music... but it was without soul.

 

I think thats one reason I like Sci Fi a bit more than Fantasy. If you take away the good writing and story from a Sci-Fi CRPG, you still have guns and space aliens to blast. If you take away the story and writing from a fantasy game, well you don't have much.

[Darque]

Darque, she still uses dial up.

 

r00fles!

forgot about that.

 

Anywho... I prefer Sci-Fi to fantasy.

 

While it's true many games almost need to add fantasy elements to it to make it work, overall Fantasy is way overdone at this point.

[Volourn]

Overdone? NEVER. One can never have too many dwarves.

[Morgoth]

You know, until now, I always thought that smiley is a cyclop with two big teeth. Looked kinda stupid. But as a turned over smiley, it now makes total sense to me! Yes!

[Oerwinde]

We need more steampunk. And I'm talking the crazy steampunk like in the Steampunk comic book or Rise of Legends, where we have crazy huge clockwork robots and giant towering cities of industry with davinci-style flying machines and steam powered cyborgs and such. Not the wussy steampunk lite that Arcanum was. (not that Arcanum wasn't supercool)

 

I'd also like to see more cyberpunk.

 

I would also like to see some low magic medieval RPGs. Something similar to the Song of Ice and Fire setting where magic is so rare most people don't even believe in it.

[Morgoth]

Maybe Big Huge Games are working on a CRPG in the RoL universe now?

[Cantousent]

You know, that's where I differ. I hate the fact that every crpg these days seems to need to mix sci-fi and fantasy. Sci-fi has to rely on some sort of supernatural gimmick and there has to be sci-fi at the end of every fantasy game. Hell, even BG2 had a damnable space ship. WoW has sci-fi at the end, for crying out loud. Why can't we have a fantasy or sci-fi game? I think Darque's right that we can't seem to get a sci-fi game that doesn't include some mystical element.

[Musopticon?]

I prefer the downgraded steampunk to metropolian visions of steamwork towns. Especially if that downgraded steampunk is seasoned with noir.

[Magnum Opus]

I hate the fact that every crpg these days seems to need to mix sci-fi and fantasy. Sci-fi has to rely on some sort of supernatural gimmick and there has to be sci-fi at the end of every fantasy game. Hell, even BG2 had a damnable space ship.

Seconded. One of the reasons I prefer BG1's setting to BG2's. BG1 was classic high fantasy that didn't mix and match in the way BG2 did, despite being in the same region of the same continent in the same world. Even as overused as fantasy is, it's still refreshing to me to see something so unabashedly low-tech. No space ships or stasis tubes or cloning jars or machines or crazy gnomish inventions; just plain old high fantasy.

[Musopticon?]

I loved the BG 2 brand of ultra-high fantasy. It felt like they really overdid the fantastic aspects, instead of pretending of holding a balance. It bordered on the side of wacky, especially at Warden's and Sahuagin Fortress and I absolutely loved it. I usually prefer low-fantasy, but BG 2 embraced the multitudes of facets the Planes and FR presented and it worked oh-so-well.

[metadigital]

I think if you use a spectrum to describe an arc from fantasy around, through Space Opera, to SF you will do better with categorising genres.

 

Star Wars is waaaay over in the fantasy segment, with some Sciencey-sounding Opera interspersing the high camp fantasy, for example.

 

I prefer my fiction more the other end of the arc, up near nano technology and Total Recall, far away from teleporters, dragons and Tolkein.

[Darque]

We need more steampunk. And I'm talking the crazy steampunk like in the Steampunk comic book or Rise of Legends, where we have crazy huge clockwork robots and giant towering cities of industry with davinci-style flying machines and steam powered cyborgs and such. Not the wussy steampunk lite that Arcanum was. (not that Arcanum wasn't supercool)

 

 

See, this I agree with.

 

I don't have a problem with fantasy, as it were, I have a problem with the fact it's the same thing over and over again.

 

This might also be why I like Dark Sun and Planescape... but loathe the Forgettable Realms and Greyhawk.

[Plano Skywalker]

I think the term Fantasy, left unqualified, suggests something along the lines of Tolkien, D&D, Conan, etc.

Fantasy is "sword and sorcery".

 

While medieval is the most common setting, Fantasy is not limited to that era. Steampunk is Fantasy, for instance, because

magic is manipulating the technology.

 

Star Wars is what I would call "Space Adventure", basically a blending of Fantasy and Sci-Fi but closer to Fantasy in fact.

 

I would also put Star Trek in the Space Adventure category since the technology is so surreal (transporters, food replicators, etc) that

there is no real difference between that and magic.

 

Newer shows like Stargate and the new Battlestar Galactica try for as much immersion as possible while limiting the things that amount to magic. For instance, in Stargate, the Stargate itself is the most fantastical element in the franchise. Everything else trys for present-day immersion. Of course, aliens and supermachines are fantastical elements as well. Hence, I would say that Stargate and BSG are still Space Adventure, as in being somewhere near the middle of that spectrum that Meta is talking about.

 

All Science Fiction depends on something that does not yet exist in fact but may well exist in theory.

I think the show "Sliders" is a good example of traditional, "hard" sci-fi. The show is about parallel realities and

travel between them....has nothing to do with space ships, aliens, or even time travel.

I also think the movie "Groundhog Day" is hard sci-fi (as well as being a romantic comedy).

 

Anyway, I am not aware of any RPG based on hard sci-fi but I would love to see one.