NWN2: Toolset Creations

[Dark_Raven]

 

In BG2 you can make a new joinable npc and release it as a mod for the masses to download. Or you can make a store clerk who sells your new custom made items in down town Neverwinter. You can do this for NWN2?

[Volourn]

It seems so... Just like NWN1...

[Tigranes]

You can do it and you always could do it. I dont know what DR's on about.

[Oerwinde]

 

In BG2 you can make a new joinable npc and release it as a mod for the masses to download. Or you can make a store clerk who sells your new custom made items in down town Neverwinter. You can do this for NWN2?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yup. Only its waaaaaaay easier to do than in BG2.

[Dark_Raven]

Obviously I know nothing about NWN modding which is why I ask. Why aren't there item packs or new npc mods out there? All I see (my view is at Bioware FYI), are modules that have nothing to do with the original game/story/whatever.

[Pidesco]

Because no one would ever touch the original NWN OC with a fifty foot pole?

[Spider]

Isn't NWN modding module based? So the toolset allows you to create modules rather than add stuff to the official campaign. You CAN add stuff to the campaign by making it a separate module, but you can't add mods from two different people like you can with BG2.

 

So basically, it's more a way to create your own adventure than to build upon an already existing one.

 

Or am I getting something wrong?

[Dark_Raven]

I don't care about making my own world or another module. If I was going to do any modding I want to add new content to the original story like you can for the BG series and release it to people so they can get it.

 

If you edited an original game "module" (area in BG modding terms) like the Sunken Flagon so it spawns a new npc you can pick and add to your adventure to destroy the King of Shadows.

 

The game has an Override folder like the BG games. If you edited an original game module and placed the edited version in the Override folder it should add the new content to the original game I would guess.

[Volourn]

"Because no one would ever touch the original NWN OC with a fifty foot pole?"

 

wRONG. people have. Why do people make stuff up? The most noteable being the AI= Henchmen Mod that someone made.

 

 

"Why aren't there item packs or new npc mods out there? All I see (my view is at Bioware FYI), are modules that have nothing to do with the original game/story/whatever."

 

You can, and there are. But, for the most part, NWN modders don't focus on that stuff. Check out neverwintervault. It has all sorts of downloadable stuff.

Edited November 14, 2006 by Volourn

[Morgoth]

Those screens look great Oerwinde! Although you should check out the UVs of the terrain, it looks like they're over-stretching a little bit. Also make sure to keep the vegetation realistic. I.e. the grass shouldn't flow in some strange patterns on the top of the hill, then vanish again.

I know within the UnrealEditor I could place a TerrainActor, specify some properties and then use several layers of textures, with alpha channels to determine where grass should be applied and where not. Is that also possible within NWN2?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm guessing you're talking about the cliff face with the texture stretching. I don't know how to avoid it while getting the sheer cliff I want. With hills that aren't so steep I can get it to look nicer, but then I lose the steep drop effect. With the grass, its just a paint tool, both for the base texture, and the actual 3d grass tufts.

 

If you want, you can edit the pics with some arrows and text and stuff if you want to show me how to improve some stuff. I went to art school so criticism is welcome.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ok, I've edited one picture, most of that stuff can also be applied to the others.

 

 

 

 

Most of my complaints are devoted to the landscape and the vegetation. The stretching of the hills looks very unnatural (probably the toolset lacks the feature to edit UVs). Also use a different texture for the terrain, something tileable in order to avoid the patterns. If you don't know how to do that, you could send me the texture and I could make it tileable in ZBrush.

Also use more vegetation like moss, weeds, bushes etc. around the river borders. With that you avoid the abrupt intersections between green and brown ground, and it makes sense to have more plants and stuff where water flows nearby.

 

Otherwise, it looks very professionally so far. The buildings are placed naturally, not too tight, I also like that you rotate them here and there a little bit. The castledistrict looks awesome! Also make sure to place buildings, trees etc more often on different heights. A path mustn't need to have the same levitation, making a road or avenue going 10-15 degrees up/down adds much to the realism.

 

 

I'm sure I'll have something to add when you get to the lighting process.

Edited November 14, 2006 by Morgoth

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

I don't care about making my own world or another module. If I was going to do any modding I want to add new content to the original story like you can for the BG series and release it to people so they can get it.

 

If you edited an original game "module" (area in BG modding terms) like the Sunken Flagon so it spawns a new npc you can pick and add to your adventure to destroy the King of Shadows.

 

The game has an Override folder like the BG games. If you edited an original game module and placed the edited version in the Override folder it should add the new content to the original game I would guess.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Don't assume things....

 

I have a feeling you could make NPC's and such and perhaps export them as ERF's, which could then be imported into any mod...

[Tigranes]

I would agree with Morgoth's comments, but it does look like Oerwinde hasn't yet finished with details such as grass and other little things.

 

Anyway, hakpaks offered a nice way to merge different things and it got better as NWN got older. I assume a similar thing is possible in NWN2.

 

Still, gameplay mods are a bit rarer because they are swamped by the sheer number of OMGMYOWNMODULE.

[Oerwinde]

Ok, I've edited one picture, most of that stuff can also be applied to the others.

 

 

 

Most of my complaints are devoted to the landscape and the vegetation. The stretching of the hills looks very unnatural (probably the toolset lacks the feature to edit UVs). Also use a different texture for the terrain, something tileable in order to avoid the patterns. If you don't know how to do that, you could send me the texture and I could make it tileable in ZBrush.

Also use more vegetation like moss, weeds, bushes etc. around the river borders. With that you avoid the abrupt intersections between green and brown ground, and it makes sense to have more plants and stuff where water flows nearby.

 

Otherwise, it looks very professionally so far. The buildings are placed naturally, not too tight, I also like that you rotate them here and there a little bit. The castledistrict looks awesome! Also make sure to place buildings, trees etc more often on different heights. A path mustn't need to have the same levitation, making a road or avenue going 10-15 degrees up/down adds much to the realism.

 

 

I'm sure I'll have something to add when you get to the lighting process.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The street texture looks better up close, you only notice the checkerboard effect when you're super high like that and don't see the detailed cobblestones, so in game it will look much nicer. I started working on the hills there so the textures look nicer, smoothing some of it out, I had to sacrifice some of the steepness of the cliffs to make the texture look better, but not too much. Yeah, I haven't added any vegetation and such yet, need to paint in the grass and such. The placeable shrubbery in the game is very limited, you have a choice between holly and ferns and thats it. No bushes or anything. Also I didn't blend the texture between the shore and the grass very well which is why its so abrupt, I need to work on that.

 

I don't know how to add new textures and such, I'm just using the ones that come in the toolset. Also, the part where you said to have a darker texture under water, the light part is actually a reflection of the lighter texture above water.

 

 

Thats what it looks like under daytime lighting. The other pics were in sunset lighting because it made everything show up better in the pictures. I wish I could set it for like afternoon lighting so I can get some cast shadows. But none of the settings really show off any shadows because its either sunset, so its just soft reflectedlight, sun is directly above, casting shadows directly underneath, or its night.

 

 

 

Heres the beginnings of my graveyard. Holy crap is this a lot of work. Adding in all undefinedthose tiny freaking gravestones. If I wanted it to look like a modern graveyard it would be easy, all in nice even rows, but I want it medieval looking so it needs to be unorganized. And making it unorganized and looking good takes a lot of work.

 

 

 

Here's an updated shot taken in sunrise light rather than sunset. Looks much different even with just the lighting change. I had already gone and changed the textures on the hill a bit, still looks off but its tough. It will look better once I add some more trees and grass and such. Also everything looks nicer up close.

 

 

 

Heres a closeup of the market. I turned on the day/night cycle and tried to get a shot where theres some decent shadows. You can see the cobblestone texture up close.

 

EDIT: Also to putting paths on different levitation - I've only found out how to rotate placeables on the Y axis, so placing them on inclines gives you one corner underground, the other floating in midair. If someone knows how to rotate on x/z it would allow for some nice effects. I originally wanted to place houses on the sides of the street going up the hill towards the castle district, but it doesn't work too well. I had to do some creative placing of the city walls to get them to go over hills.

Edited November 15, 2006 by Oerwinde

[Darque]

^ Awesome stuff.

 

would you say the tools are easy to use?

[Oerwinde]

^ Awesome stuff.

 

would you say the tools are easy to use?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The learning curve is steeper than the old toolset, since you can do so much more with it, but once you get the hang of it, it is much nicer to use. You can make much nicer looking areas almost as fast.

 

 

 

I've completely restarted my slums area. Its mostly cut off due to the boundary, but you can see it from the avenue to the castle district, so I might as well build it. I'm building right into the boundary areas to the north and south and I'm just going to copy the area and cut out the south end of the map while extending the north for the slums, and vice versa for the docks. That way when I transition maps, I end up starting in the area I could see from the other map. Semi-seamless transition.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Looks impressive Oerwinde. How long did it take you to do all of that?

[Oerwinde]

Looks impressive Oerwinde. How long did it take you to do all of that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I started working on it like 3-4 days after I got the game, on and off. Probably around 8-10 hours total so far. Maybe more.

[Darque]

Wow.

 

That last city pic looks really cool.

 

Have you learned all of this via trial and error or are you using guides?

[alanschu]

I think he's just playing with it. I believe he is also an artist as well though, so that will help with the creative aspect.

 

I played around with the toolset for about an hour, and manipulating the terrain is actually quite simple. The only real problem I can see is that there's no support for Undoing your changes to the terrain, so I suggest saving very frequently.

Edited November 15, 2006 by alanschu

[Wistrik]

I like the screenshots, but have to ask how does this perform on your computer? I can see mine chugging a bit with all that architecture, especially once the fluff is added.

 

My only module-creating limitation is giving voice to characters, so my modules will be silent in this regard. I'll still use cinematic dialog so long as the characters' lips aren't moving to the silent text; that'd be too distracting. (Even worse than the odd way

Neeshka's

lips move... yikes.) On that note, it's too bad Obsidian couldn't get some help from the guy who animated the faces for Half Life 2; when they speak it looks downright real, if you can ignore the fact that their virtual larynx doesn't move.

Edited November 15, 2006 by Wistrik

[Llyranor]

Messing around during the preorder toolset phase, there was a learning curve - somewhat steep, but anyone with a good amount of motivation should be able to learn the basics very easily. The documentation is simple and does the job well enough.

 

I see dialogue and scripting as still being the more labor-intensive parts of modding for NWN2. Also with somewhat of a learning curve, but definitely something that can be learned with the proper will, and the proper tools.

[Tigranes]

Crappie crappers.

 

Opened toolset for the first time today, crash.

 

[Oerwinde]

I think he's just playing with it.  I believe he is also an artist as well though, so that will help with the creative aspect.

 

I played around with the toolset for about an hour, and manipulating the terrain is actually quite simple.  The only real problem I can see is that there's no support for Undoing your changes to the terrain, so I suggest saving very frequently.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The undo function is completely useless in the toolset. It only works on a very limited number of things, so when you actually screw up and want to undo something, it undoes the last thing its allowed to, which is likely something you did like a half hour prior.

 

Yeah, I'm a modeller, but I think what really helps is how much I love maps. My room is covered in the maps from the various Birthright sets, Baldur's Gate 2, Grand Theft Auto, etc.

 

Anyway, now I'm having a problem. I edited the walkmesh and baked the level so I could walk around in it, and in game all I can see are the placeables, the terrain is gone.

 

The layout of the buildings and such looks way cooler in game though with all the effects.

Edited November 16, 2006 by Oerwinde

[Dark_Raven]

Crappie crappers.

 

Opened toolset for the first time today, crash.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First time I opened mine it just stood there and did nothing. Second time, worked like a charm.

[Maria Caliban]

I am working on my first mod and learning the toolset through trail and error. So far, I'm enjoying myself though the toolset is a system hog. No crashes yet but the whole thing freezes and I have to get up and make myself a cup of tea while my system gets back on track.

 

Morgoth:

" Oh well, since I'm sitting here in a toolset thread: Could you hardcore NWN-modders tell uncle Morgoth what a 2DA and a Hakpak is?"

 

I'm rather un-hardcore but I'll take a crack at that question. The 2DA files contain what you might consider the 'game rules.' The module I'm working on is designed to be an adventure game in a setting I've developed. It would be inappropriate for the player's character to be a demihuman in this setting so by going to a 2da file called 'racialtypes' I was able to make humans the only selectable race in the character creation screen. Likewise, I've edited a 2da file called 'classes' and made fighters, paladins, bards, rangers, and rogues the only classes available for players.

 

If I wanted to do so, I could also alter the properties of these classes. I could remove spellcasting from bards, give fighters the barbarian's feats, change skillpoint allocation, or even create my own classes.

 

So, if a 2da file changes elements of the game, a Hakpack adds new ones. Say I've decided that the hero's penultimate battle with the big-baddy can only be done justice if Wagner's "The Ride of the Valkyries" is blasting from the player's speakers. I can stick a BMU of that song into a hakpack, the player can download it, and when the final battle between good and evil happens, that resourse will now be available for their game.

 

At least, that's what I think. If anyone wants to add/correct please do so.