NWN2: Forumite Impressions

[Dark_Raven]

...hehehe...now some putz poster o'er at BIOweenia HQ wants ta sue Obsidz...aaahhh, how I's missed this fun...

 

 

...WHO LUVS YA, BABY!!...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stupid kids talking tough is all they are. It is fun to pick on them though.

[kumquatq3]

Pros

Great visuals.

 

Really?....Really?

 

I mean, their not bad enough to get in the way of the game play, but "great" is reallllly stretching it.

 

 

As as been said, aside from it being a system hog compared to graphics, the path finding and NPC AI are pretty bad.

 

I'm enjoying it so far tho, but the game can frustrate you.

[Jorian Drake]

another bug:

Duelist Int bonus to AC is not being applied properly

[Kaftan Barlast]

The only bug that Ive really noticed(I dont bugchase when enjoying a game) is that enemies who get paralysed by sleep effect spells such as "colour spray" will get right back up again in the next round, except theyre still marked as sleeping so you can "coup de grace" them. And if you do, no death animation plays, they just fade away.

 

 

Pros

Great visuals.

 

Really?....Really?

 

I mean, their not bad enough to get in the way of the game play, but "great" is reallllly stretching it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Unless youre running it in atleast 1280x1024 with maxed graphics, you're not seeing the game as its supposed to look and you cant really judge the graphics. I think it looks great, espcially the light effects and speculars on the characters. Some things look kind of NWN1 though

[mkreku]

overclocking reduces lifespan, period.

Uh.. yes, you are correct. Unless you're overclocking with serious voltage increases, you're as likely to "wear out" a power cord as you are a CPU by overclocking it. I'm sure moving all those electrons in the end will wear out the material, but, to be honest, I'm not really worried about that since it'll be time to upgrade (about a thousand times over) before that happens.

 

The motherboard I am using is an Abit AW9D-Max, which is designed for heavy overclocking. Solid state capacitors, and all that. Overclocking may decrease the length of life for your hardware, but it's not a problem since you're bound to upgrade long before that ever happens (unless you actually burn something, one way or another).

[Jorian Drake]

overclocking reduces lifespan, period.

Uh.. yes, you are correct. Unless you're overclocking with serious voltage increases, you're as likely to "wear out" a power cord as you are a CPU by overclocking it. I'm sure moving all those electrons in the end will wear out the material, but, to be honest, I'm not really worried about that since it'll be time to upgrade (about a thousand times over) before that happens.

 

The motherboard I am using is an Abit AW9D-Max, which is designed for heavy overclocking. Solid state capacitors, and all that. Overclocking may decrease the length of life for your hardware, but it's not a problem since you're bound to upgrade long before that ever happens (unless you actually burn something, one way or another).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you're not a newbie in it, then I guess you won't burn yourself.

[Volourn]

"biggest problems for me is that you can't really put anything useful in all those quickslots"

 

Potions. They are the bets to place there.

 

 

"Unless youre running it in atleast 1280x1024 with maxed graphics, you're not seeing the game as its supposed to look and you cant really judge the graphics."

 

What kind of bull are you spewing now? That's absolutely nonsense. What you meant to say unless one is wearing rose coloured glasses; one isn't fit to judge the graphics. Right?

 

Anyways, I agree with K. The graphics are good for the most part; but 'great'? I think not. And, oh, I have settings on max too so it's not my computer. LOL

Edited November 6, 2006 by Volourn

[Setzer]

Well, I get 70-90 FPS playing WoW @ 1680x1050 w/ settings maxed. I get 100/40+ FPS Indoors/Outdoors while playing Oblivion @ 1680x1050 w/ settings maxed. So, I don't see how this could be a problem with my LCD monitor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

a) those are different games. comparing one game to another is naive and/or short sighted. WoW ain't an rpg, and oblivion has much different style graphics (actually, so does WoW for that matter).

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yah, those are different games but both are graphic intensive and I have no problems running them at high resolution with my LCD monitor. I was trying to point out that my monitor is not the problem which you stated was.

 

Also, where do I come off saying WoW is an "RPG"??? I wasn't comparing the games genre's here, buddy.

[Wistrik]

I have some impressions though I've not played the game very much.

 

1. Installation

 

This was a breeze. It took me all of 17 minutes from the time of inserting the DVD until I was able to play the game, and that includes downloading and installing the patch. I had no issues whatsoever. Important points to keep in mind that may have allowed this to happen: my software drivers were up to date, my firmware (motherboard BIOS, video card BIOS, DVD-RW flashrom, etc.) was up to date, my system is very stable, and I have 93% free space on a 500Gb hard drive.

 

2. Game Manual

 

It reminds me a lot of the manual format used in Baldur's Gate 2 Shadows of Amn. In general I like the layout, though it's too bad what happened to the warlock at the start.

 

3. Opening Movies

 

Awesome, especially seeing the warlock movie on widescreen. I usually click past the other movies and watch that one. The videos don't stutter a bit on my system, which is always a nice plus.

 

4. Character Generation

 

I'm not spoiled on other systems like those apparently found in Oblivion, so I thought it was very nice. Certainly an improvement over what NWN offered. The game manual specifically states that Obsidian was trying to improve on NWN; nowhere did it say they were trying to make the best character generator on the planet. I was able to create a character that looks a lot like me, which will no doubt add to the game's immersiveness. I felt there was balance in the number of options for customization, and I was happy to see some of NWN's soundsets recycled for NWN2. The reserved guardian is my favorite, and sociopath is good for laughs.

 

5. Gameplay

 

I haven't completed the tutorial yet, thanks to being caught up in Dreamfall, but I did get some quick impressions.

 

The interface is certainly improved over NWN. Though the radial menu is gone, there is still a context menu, though I had to shorten its delay as the default setting is way too long; I didn't even know there was a context menu because nothing happened instantly when I right-clicked on the character. Oops.

 

I like that Obsidian kept the user notes section of the journal. I used this a lot in NWN to keep track of various things.

 

The camera is certainly a bit more touchy, but otherwise functions just like NWN. That is, I prefer the top-down mode, using the wheel to zoom in/out and adjust the camera. Except for adjusting to faster movements, and adjusting them where possible, it's been easy going. So far I haven't noticed any dialog camera issues, it looks very nice.

 

I do have one complaint regarding the archery test... Though I can understand missing the target by a few inches once in awhile, it was utterly ridiculous when one of my shots somehow hit Annie who was standing off to the side, completely out of the way. It actually left the crossbow at an angle of 90 degrees from where I was aiming! Oops. Given that my character has a 16 dexterity, that seems a bit uncalled for. I could see this happening if he was a bumbling idiot with 3 dexterity.

 

6. Graphics.

 

Very well done overall. The trees blowing in the wind are a nice additions. I found that there's no substitute for running with the high quality textures. Since I couldn't run with everything enabled, I sacrificed environment shadows in order to keep the textures. Though I'm pleased to see the realistic environmental effects, I hope future patches will attempt to improve performance.

 

I do take issues with some of the trees, however. Those trees with a single trunks and sparse, bottle-brush-like fans protruding upward at 45 degree angles are rather hideous. There are also areas where the same tree was pasted multiple times so it looks a bit like a clone forest. This is a minor point, however, as the full scene is usually worth more than the individual components.

 

There are instances of objects clipping into each other, but I've yet to see a 3D game get this perfect, and nothing will beat Ultima IX's humorous errors in this regard, so it's a minor issue. (If my character ever runs himself through while yawning, I'll start having flashbacks.)

 

7. Sound/Music

 

So far so good, and the tutorial music is a catchy tune. Voicing is well done, but I'm no VO expert. I feel it's realistic enough, unlike NWN which made me shudder sometimes, like with Aribeth would go from low, calm voice to high-pitch yelling from one sentence to the next. Ack. Thankfully I haven't experienced that harshness in NWN2 yet.

 

 

Well, that's all for now.

[Jorian Drake]

Pleade some DEV look into thzis, i don't have the 3.5 version of Weapon Master so i can't.

 

Agent of greater will

Game Owner

Profile: Agent of greater willNWN

NWN: SoU

NWN: HotU

SW: KotOR PC

 

 

Joined: 06 Oct 2003  Posted: Monday, 06 November 2006 10:02AM

The Weapon Master class hasn't even been updated for 3.5

 

 

If its true then the WM in NWN2 has to be updated.

[Gfted1]

A few of my impressions on the game:

 

Ive been really busy so Im still playing in the tutorial. The character movement and control seem clunky as hell to me and screwing around with the camera angle every two seconds so you can see what the hell is going on is annoying.

 

I do like the graphic and it runs like a champ with everything I could find to max out, maxed. This will probably make the majority of you clutch your chests and knash your teeth, but I also really like the "recommend" buttons on character creation. Im sure once I get the hand of 3.5 or subsequent playthroughs Ill manage it manually but its nice to have at this point because nothing suck more then realizing you just invested all that time in a level 10 turd and have to start over.

[The Named One]

Bah, the game won't work again because of this "disc can't be found or authenticated" error. D-Tools is definitely unmounted and off but still it won't work. Any other suggestions?

[taks]

Uh.. yes, you are correct. Unless you're overclocking with serious voltage increases, you're as likely to "wear out" a power cord as you are a CPU by overclocking it. I'm sure moving all those electrons in the end will wear out the material, but, to be honest, I'm not really worried about that since it'll be time to upgrade (about a thousand times over) before that happens.

sorry dude, but you're wrong about this. you are correct, however, that most folks will upgrade before real problems arise, though not "a thousand times over."

 

The motherboard I am using is an Abit AW9D-Max, which is designed for heavy overclocking. Solid state capacitors, and all that. Overclocking may decrease the length of life for your hardware, but it's not a problem since you're bound to upgrade long before that ever happens (unless you actually burn something, one way or another).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this i agree with... at least from a mobo standpoint. many are designed with overclocking in mind (ASUS make several that i know of). not all CPUs, however, are capable of withstanding OC stresses (this gets into a "binning" discussion, btw). all of your peripheral components, however, are not designed with serious overclocking in mind (granted, just a simple OC on the CPU core should not effect peripherals).

 

and contrary to previously posted opinions (not sure who said this), it's not outright failure that will occur. it really can slowly die. i can also guarantee that testing something designed to handle OC, one that is not OC'd will last longer over all.

 

taks

[taks]

Yah, those are different games but both are graphic intensive and I have no problems running them at high resolution with my LCD monitor. I was trying to point out that my monitor is not the problem which you stated was.

again, NO, I DID NOT SAY YOUR MONITOR WAS THE PROBLEM. please re-read what i said. twice now, btw. as with ANY LCD (read: ANY, not just yours or your brand or model), graphics look best IN NATIVE RESOLUTION MODE. with NWN2, that resolution is too much for the graphics card to handle so you have to pair it down to get the frame rates to acceptable levels. once you do this, the LCD is running out of native mode, and no longer looks that great. ANY LCD.

 

Also, where do I come off saying WoW is an "RPG"??? I wasn't comparing the games genre's here, buddy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wow, this is a big DUH. i did't say you said that either. the fact that WoW is not a crpg means it has a different overall structure, which stresses your system differently. really, this is not rocket science.

 

the reason that the type of game matters is the type of engine running it. engines are different. oblivion is more of a FPS type engine. WoW is something else (not sure exactly). NWN2 is a D&D crpg with a completely different engine (and requirements) than either of those. you're comparing performance of NWN2 to WoW or oblivion is pointless because THEY ARE DIFFERENT ENGINES ACCOMPLISHING DIFFERENT TASKS! sheesh...

 

taks

Edited November 6, 2006 by taks

[Lare Kikkeli]

Yah, those are different games but both are graphic intensive and I have no problems running them at high resolution with my LCD monitor. I was trying to point out that my monitor is not the problem which you stated was.

again, NO, I DID NOT SAY YOUR MONITOR WAS THE PROBLEM. please re-read what i said. twice now, btw. as with ANY LCD (read: ANY, not just yours or your brand or model), graphics look best IN NATIVE RESOLUTION MODE. with NWN2, that resolution is too much for the graphics card to handle so you have to pair it down to get the frame rates to acceptable levels. once you do this, the LCD is running out of native mode, and no longer looks that great. ANY LCD.

 

Also, where do I come off saying WoW is an "RPG"??? I wasn't comparing the games genre's here, buddy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

wow, this is a big DUH. i did't say you said that either. the fact that WoW is not a crpg means it has a different overall structure, which stresses your system differently. really, this is not rocket science.

 

the reason that the type of game matters is the type of engine running it. engines are different. oblivion is more of a FPS type engine. WoW is something else (not sure exactly). NWN2 is a D&D crpg with a completely different engine (and requirements) than either of those. you're comparing performance of NWN2 to WoW or oblivion is pointless because THEY ARE DIFFERENT ENGINES ACCOMPLISHING DIFFERENT TASKS! sheesh...

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

whoa, snappy.

he was just wondering what makes NWN2 so special, since he can run both wow and oblivion in high resolutions. iirc what makes NWN2 so graphics intensive is the 100 % dynamic lighting. turn it off and voila, it runs like the wind. repeat woith shadows.

[taks]

i'm finally in act II, btw. probably took 20 hours or so. so far i'm having a blast. definitely glued to my computer the past few days. fittingly, the "political intrigue" portion of the story is underway now. at least, now it is more obvious what is going on and how they intend to accomplish their goals (they being the baddies).

 

taks

[taks]

whoa, snappy. 

sometimes you just get tired of repeating the same thing. particularly in the morning after only one cuppa joe.

 

he was just wondering what makes NWN2 so special, since he can run both wow and oblivion in high resolutions. iirc what makes NWN2 so graphics intensive is the 100 % dynamic lighting. turn it off and voila, it runs like the wind. repeat woith shadows.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i realize that, and i've tried to explain why. LCDs are just plain quirky, and this engine is definitely a hog, with plenty of "features" that will degrade performance. but comparing it to WoW or oblivion is pointless because they are different engines doing different things. oblivion, in particular, seems to have all of its effort focused on graphics. i get the standard FPS "feel" from it, with an rpg thrown on top. certainly that's just my opinion as i program with neither engine.

 

curious, does WoW have dynamic lighting and shadows? i need to check oblivion (i have it installed) to verify the same.

 

taks

Edited November 6, 2006 by taks

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

whoa, snappy. 

sometimes you just get tired of repeating the same thing. particularly in the morning after only one cuppa joe.

 

he was just wondering what makes NWN2 so special, since he can run both wow and oblivion in high resolutions. iirc what makes NWN2 so graphics intensive is the 100 % dynamic lighting. turn it off and voila, it runs like the wind. repeat woith shadows.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i realize that, and i've tried to explain why. LCDs are just plain quirky, and this engine is definitely a hog, with plenty of "features" that will degrade performance. but comparing it to WoW or oblivion is pointless because they are different engines doing different things. oblivion, in particular, seems to have all of its effort focused on graphics. i get the standard FPS "feel" from it, with an rpg thrown on top. certainly that's just my opinion as i program with neither engine.

 

curious, does WoW have dynamic lighting and shadows? i need to check oblivion (i have it installed) to verify the same.

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

NWN 2 is a system hog period, the effects can be gotten cheaper than currently implemented.

[taks]

NWN 2 is a system hog period, the effects can be gotten cheaper than currently implemented.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

perhaps, but neither of us are actually working with the engine itself to know exactly what it would take. the detail with this game is beyond anything i've seen with oblivion, and certainly the D&D rules implementation is hurting CPU performance, which means less help for the GPU.

 

taks

[Maedhros]

Bah, the game won't work again because of this "disc can't be found or authenticated" error. D-Tools is definitely unmounted and off but still it won't work. Any other suggestions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...forum=116&sp=45

 

There's a fix somewhere in that thread. Worked for me.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

NWN 2 is a system hog period, the effects can be gotten cheaper than currently implemented.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

perhaps, but neither of us are actually working with the engine itself to know exactly what it would take. the detail with this game is beyond anything i've seen with oblivion, and certainly the D&D rules implementation is hurting CPU performance, which means less help for the GPU.

 

taks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I dunno, I wasn't every really impressed with the engine.

 

Ruleset Calculations are nothing, randomness CAN occasionally be expensive. All in all the D&D ruleset shouldn't be that painful, most of it is integer based, I've never seen it's innards, I suppose I could look as the ASM, but that wouldn't answer the question much and it'd waste alot of time.

 

What i see, for the cost hardware wise, doesn't balance out!

[Volourn]

"whoa, snappy."

 

What did you expect? You are talking with a fanboy. Arguing with Taks over NWN2 is wasted energy. I am sad.

 

The bottom line is NWN2 has some major problems that effects quite a few people. And, I say that despite the fact that my computer runs it rather well.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

"whoa, snappy."

 

What did you expect? You are talking with a fanboy.   Arguing with Taks over NWN2 is wasted energy. I am sad.

 

The bottom line is NWN2 has some major problems that effects quite a few people. And, I say that despite the fact that my computer runs it rather well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

My machine has no issues at all.

[taks]

Ruleset Calculations are nothing, randomness CAN occasionally be expensive. All in all the D&D ruleset shouldn't be that painful, most of it is integer based, I've never seen it's innards, I suppose I could look as the ASM, but that wouldn't answer the question much and it'd waste alot of time.

 

What i see, for the cost hardware wise, doesn't balance out!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this is contrary to developer comments that i've seen. it is actually a pain with so many checks. checks result in many if/then statements, case statements, loops with branches, etc. this is time consuming. particularly when these checks have to access relatively large tables, which means memory accesses which are very slow (not every table fits into cache). also, the fact that it is mostly integer based does not change the fact that the CPU can only issue so many instructions per cycle. granted, most high-end CPUs are out of order, but that only helps a bit (high-end means anything intel, AMD or PowerPC).

 

while it may not seem to balance out, not knowing the underlying code prevents anyone from making an accurate assessment. certainly it may be possible to streamline the engine to handle graphics better, but i don't know that for sure.

 

taks

[taks]

What did you expect? You are talking with a fanboy.   Arguing with Taks over NWN2 is wasted energy. I am sad.

and somehow i'm the troll. this statement is pretty ridiculous even for you, volourn. none of these comments to setzer have anything to do with defending NWN2. they are simply facts regarding using any LCD with what appears to be a graphics hog of a game.

 

The bottom line is NWN2 has some major problems that effects quite a few people. And, I say that despite the fact that my computer runs it rather well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i never said anything different. all i've noted is that this game runs great on my rig, on which many othe games do not. quite often, people that have issues with any game are victims of their own setup, intentional or otherwise.

 

taks

Edited November 6, 2006 by taks