Want a new CRPG.

[LoneWolf16]

Well, StillLife, continually referring to something somebody likes as garbage tends to draw a bit of hostility. I can respect your opinion that you don't like it, but please, quit calling a favorite game of mine trash.

Edited June 5, 2006 by LoneWolf16

[astr0creep]

Ok I got Wizardry 8 installed, patched, modded and ready to go. So, would any of you who have played it mind giving me some party tips for a first run through? I was going to go with 2 tanks, rogue, healer, mage and a ranger....or something along those lines. Aslo, which skills are really helpful to put points in?

 

I played the demo over the weekend and I must say I enjoyed it. Reminded me of my M&M playing days but with a more in depth character development system. Graphics are so-so but I understand it's a 5yr old game. If the story and gameplay are great then I can deal with the dated graphics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Best advice I can give you is invest in spells like sleep, stop, slow that affect many enemies at once and spells that boost/defend your party. Forget about attack spells like fireball, at least in the beginning, although magic missile has saved my neck a few times.

It's also a good idea to have a bard in your party as they don't use up mp when using an instrument. And instruments can be used over and over again, no ammo needed. And Hobbit bards make good rogues.

You should have a Mook in your party.

You should have a Ranger in your party.

Also, don't forget that you can change classes anytime. But plan ahead for each of your characters because each class has requirements that could make it hard for a tank to turn into a Mage. But it's possible.

 

My starting party is usually made up of:

Hobbit Bard

Dragonic Fighter

Dwarf Cleric

Pixie Wizard

Mook Psychic

Felpur Ranger

 

Except for my Psychic and bard they all switch class to allow more variety in skills/magics.

 

When travelling, stay close to the "walls". When attacked you're much better off in corners than in the open. Sleep in small holes and crevisses and in your formation, keep your spellcasters and long range fighters in the middle/back, keeping your back rows against the "walls" in the environment.

 

Oh and the underwater monster is killable.

 

Good luck.

[LadyCrimson]

@ StillLife

 

If you don't understand why people like certain games, that's fine...I don't understand why some people like brie or fish eggs. But I don't tell them what they 'should' like instead, or that they don't understand the art of culinary pleasure...

 

The same people who like Diabloish games can also often be fans of things like Baldurs Gate types and table-gaming, I've met many who love all three, because they find all three fun in different ways, whatever those ways are for them. I am quite positive that any of those people I've met - some of them who've been table-top gaming before video games were even really around - would be very offended by the notion that they don't understand that 'gameplay should move on,' or whatever, simply because they happen to (still) enjoy one particular game/genre.

 

There are many very old (non-video) games that are all very simple and repetive games rules-wise that are still hugely popular and widely played. Just because time marches on people aren't going to stop liking or wanting certain genres/stuff, assuming they still personally enjoy them.

 

To quote from Star Trek's Shore Leave (groan away...) perhaps sometimes, for some of us, "The more complex the mind (or work/living environment), the greater the need for the simplicity of play."

[Judge Hades]

I don't think I can stomach sp games any more, way too much last century.  I would suggest Eve: http://www.eve-online.com/  I'm sure that will keep you going for quite a while.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The thing is when I want to game on the PC I want to be alone. I don't want to interact with people. I use gaming to escape and get away from people. In some Online games you have no choice but deal with ass-hats or other people.

 

If I want to game with people I go game PnP. Once a week gaming with people is enough for me.

 

As for simple and complex gameplay, Jade Empire was very very simple yet fairly fun to play. KotORs were also fairly simple as well, though a little too simple in some areas, but still fun. Diablo is simple yet dreadfully boring.

 

In the end its the story that will entertain or not for me. Diablo's story was piss poor and lame. Jade Empire's story was decent. Both games had very simple gameplay. In the end Jade Empire > Diablo.

Edited June 5, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Plano Skywalker]

The thing is when I want to game on the PC I want to be alone.  I don't want to interact with people.  I use gaming to escape and get away from people.  In some Online games you have no choice but deal with ass-hats or other epople.

 

If I want to game with people I go game PnP.  Once a week gaming with people is enough for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree. One thing that bothers me in pre-searing Guild Wars is that you HAVE to cooperate with other human beings to do the quests....post-searing is not as bad as you can use hechmen.

 

IMO, Guild Wars *almost* got it right....an immersive, story-driven adventure in which interpersonal interaction is possible but not required.

[Judge Hades]

Yeah, that is one thing I hate about MMORPGs. The People. The market is heading towards MMORPGs and MMORPG like games. I hate MMORPGs.

[Archmonarch]

You should have a Mook in your party.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Awesome.

[Morgoth]

Yeah, that is one thing I hate about MMORPGs.  The People.  The market is heading towards MMORPGs and MMORPG like games.  I hate MMORPGs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's an obvious step, since the rule of thumb still remains:

MMORPGs = socializing with dorks + more Girl powahhh = more money.

SP hardcore CRPGs = Feed your imagination = become extinct.

 

Sadly.

[alanschu]

Preference in games doesn't really reflect on someone's actual character in my book.  Put the strawman down.

 

Then don't go implying how people that play Diablo 2 aren't deep and how people "hold back" the gaming industry. Because it does nothing to dissuade Eldar's claims of elitism.

 

And who's using the strawman? It looks very much like your position is to criticize those that play games like Diablo (even if it was in response to Eldar's statement) Which is exactly the part I challenged. Even if you were just arguing that you didn't like Diablo 2, then there was no need to start insulting the people that play the game.

 

 

...that was kinda the point dude.  Did you miss the fact I used the same three words you did to begin that statement?

 

I figured you were inspired by my use of the English language.

 

Pac Man and Space Invaders have simple learning curves and don't require a large dedication of time, yet they're no longer the smash hits they once were even with modern graphics.  The appeal clearly goes beyond it being easy to get into.

 

Because, as I mentioned, people find it fun. My words specifically were "Because it's a simple game with minimal learning curve for the significantly vast majority of people that don't have hours upon hours to invest into videogaming. More importantly, people find it FUN!!!"

 

Again, you're going off on a tirade that isn't really related to what I said.  I, as in you know...me?  I don't personally see the appeal at all.

 

There are many very popular games that I don't like, but it doesn't mean that I can't see the appeal of it.

 

Yes, I can imagine people play them because they're fun for them - that's kinda obvious.  Why something so simplistic is fun is what I fail to understand, but I get the whole "people have different tastes than you" thing.  Unfortunately, my tastes are superior to everyone's, because they're mine.  :cool:  Regardless, usually I can find something that would be appealing to other people in a game I don't like, but not those kind of games.

 

If you can't figure out what's appealing about it, then I guess that's your problem.

 

Maybe you should take your own advice and grow some thicker skin, and come to grips with the fact not everyone will agree with you one what's good or bad?  You'll live longer.  If someone explains why they dislike a game, it's not something to get offended by.  I just wanted to respond to Eldar's insunation -- which might not have been what he really meant by it --  that people who don't like Diablo are RPG elitists.

 

I have no problems with people disagreeing with me. I have problems when people say stuff like "Dismiss people who don't find games like that interesting as RPG elitists all you want, but it could very well be they're just gamers who understand gameplay should have moved on past fairly mediocre games of the 80's like Gauntlet."

 

 

Ah, outright lying now huh?  You know very well my point was that upgrading a PC for gaming is no longer much more expensive than buying a console(not a Wii) then it has been before, meaning it's becoming a non-factor.  A point which you danced around forever providing nothing to the contrary until you could cling to my reluctance to waste a day bargain hunting around the Internet or stores to fit a figure you threw out there.

 

Sorry if I misconstrued your point (sorry mkreku, but he is calling me a liar):

 

Bingo, but by shelling out a few hundred dollars for a PC, you get everything you get from a PC, plus a gaming system. If you have any interest in both--which a rapidly increasing number of people do these days--might as well get a nice PC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You then modified it to this shortly afterwards.

 

Barebones PC with a decent processor = $400(don't give me the E-Machine crap, few people settle on those as their primary system)

 

Basic Xbox 360 package = $400

 

Upgrades to make a PC fit for several years of gaming = $400-500

 

 

Grow up and don't resort to making things up to make people look bad.  I say enough foolish things without having the things I do say completely misconstrued.  And seriously man, stop holding a grudge over something so silly. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What did I make up again?

[Setzer]

Ok I got Wizardry 8 installed, patched, modded and ready to go. So, would any of you who have played it mind giving me some party tips for a first run through? I was going to go with 2 tanks, rogue, healer, mage and a ranger....or something along those lines. Aslo, which skills are really helpful to put points in?

 

I played the demo over the weekend and I must say I enjoyed it. Reminded me of my M&M playing days but with a more in depth character development system. Graphics are so-so but I understand it's a 5yr old game. If the story and gameplay are great then I can deal with the dated graphics.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Best advice I can give you is invest in spells like sleep, stop, slow that affect many enemies at once and spells that boost/defend your party. Forget about attack spells like fireball, at least in the beginning, although magic missile has saved my neck a few times.

It's also a good idea to have a bard in your party as they don't use up mp when using an instrument. And instruments can be used over and over again, no ammo needed. And Hobbit bards make good rogues.

You should have a Mook in your party.

You should have a Ranger in your party.

Also, don't forget that you can change classes anytime. But plan ahead for each of your characters because each class has requirements that could make it hard for a tank to turn into a Mage. But it's possible.

 

My starting party is usually made up of:

Hobbit Bard

Dragonic Fighter

Dwarf Cleric

Pixie Wizard

Mook Psychic

Felpur Ranger

 

Except for my Psychic and bard they all switch class to allow more variety in skills/magics.

 

When travelling, stay close to the "walls". When attacked you're much better off in corners than in the open. Sleep in small holes and crevisses and in your formation, keep your spellcasters and long range fighters in the middle/back, keeping your back rows against the "walls" in the environment.

 

Oh and the underwater monster is killable.

 

Good luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks for the tips!

 

Wow, you can change classes during the game?! That's pretty cool. Is there any particular reason you want to have a Mook & a Ranger in your party? I know the Ranger has search on "on" all the time and without one you need to turn it on manually which might set you up to be ambushed. Also, I read that if you take a Bard make sure to make it a female but there wasn't a reason why?

[astr0creep]

Thanks for the tips!

 

Wow, you can change classes during the game?! That's pretty cool. Is there any particular reason you want to have a Mook & a Ranger in your party? I know the Ranger has search on "on" all the time and without one you need to turn it on manually which might set you up to be ambushed. Also, I read that if you take a Bard make sure to make it a female but there wasn't a reason why?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I always bring a Mook around because in the beginning of the game you can get some extra info from the Mook base in the first city(don't remember the name). They're are also very good psychics and psych spells are very handy.

 

A ranger is good for the search function. Not only is it always on but the search skill is better if performed by a ranger at the start of the game, which is when you need field items the most.

[Volourn]

Pretty much every one here is an 'elitist gamer'. That includes Still Life, Eldar, Alanshu, and myself. Just admit it - we all look down at those who like games we don't or don't like game we do.

 

Game over.

[alanschu]

I actually try not to.

 

Not a big fan of JRPGs, but don't think less of the many people I know that play them. I absolutely loathe modern fighting games (though I love SF2 and MK2).

 

Different Strokes for Different Folks and all that.

[Llyranor]

I respect people who bought Enter The Matrix too.

[alanschu]

Hehe. People like their licensed products.

 

Though that is bigger and more beyond the scope of just computer games. People did want more of the Matrix. Unfortunately there was just an interest in milking the IP.

 

If someone claims to like Enter the Matrix though, I won't second guess their preference.

Edited June 5, 2006 by alanschu

[Cantousent]

Frankly, I normally don't care what other people like. For example, the worst game I ever played was Timelines. Ugh. Still, I don't look down on others who enjoy it.

 

Same with movies, tv, music, and books. I don't look down on folks who enjoy things I find worthless.

 

However, I have to admit I look down on folks who enjoy the writings of the Marquis de Sade. ...But that's because of the nature of the writing. So, I guess I have to say that I will occasionally hold someone's tastes in disdain, but the threshold is usually quite high.

[alanschu]

*waits anxiously for StillLife's reply*

[mkreku]

Sorry if I misconstrued your point (sorry mkreku, but he is calling me a liar):

Huh? I think my feeble brain must have lost why this would have any connection or relevance to me?

[StillLife]

Well, StillLife, continually referring to something somebody likes as garbage tends to draw a bit of hostility. I can respect your opinion that you don't like it, but please, quit calling a favorite game of mine trash. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Okay, that's fair enough.

 

Then don't go implying how people that play Diablo 2 aren't deep and how people "hold back" the gaming industry. Because it does nothing to dissuade Eldar's claims of elitism.

 

I didn't. Alan, can you not have a discussion without completely mutating someone's words and intent? It's getting old. I said people who buy overly simplistic games in droves, like Diablo, send a message that gamers don't really expect more from developers - and maybe I'm off base in that people don't really need more from their games, or that there's still a desire for games with simple gameplay. I didn't insult anyone's intelligence or "depth."

 

And who's using the strawman? It looks very much like your position is to criticize those that play games like Diablo (even if it was in response to Eldar's statement) Which is exactly the part I challenged. Even if you were just arguing that you didn't like Diablo 2, then there was no need to start insulting the people that play the game.

 

When you twist someone's statements and argue something they didn't really say? That's a strawman, and you're using one in that paragraph. Please, point out to me where I insulted people who play Diablo, and not the style of game itself.

 

Because, as I mentioned, people find it fun. My words specifically were "Because it's a simple game with minimal learning curve for the significantly vast majority of people that don't have hours upon hours to invest into videogaming. More importantly, people find it FUN!!!"

 

And those aspects are available in the classics I mentioned.

 

I have no problems with people disagreeing with me. I have problems when people say stuff like "Dismiss people who don't find games like that interesting as RPG elitists all you want, but it could very well be they're just gamers who understand gameplay should have moved on past fairly mediocre games of the 80's like Gauntlet."

 

And, what was it in that statement that made you upset? That comment was aimed at Eldar, and did he react like you did? I think mainstream games should have moved on in complexity past average games of the 80's...what's the problem? I don't think that qualifies me for RPG elitist status.

 

As for the last part, I don't see a quote there anywhere where I claimed buying a gaming PC is cheaper than a modern console, in fact, you only proved I didn't say that. Nice try bud, but your statement was a completely misleading attempt to make me look crazy and nothing more. And you wanna point the finger accusing me of insulting people - way to go.

Edited June 5, 2006 by StillLife

[alanschu]

Sorry if I misconstrued your point (sorry mkreku, but he is calling me a liar):

Huh? I think my feeble brain must have lost why this would have any connection or relevance to me?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You gave me crap one time for digging into an old post against the Hades.

[astr0creep]

Sorry if I misconstrued your point (sorry mkreku, but he is calling me a liar):

Huh? I think my feeble brain must have lost why this would have any connection or relevance to me?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You gave me crap one time for digging into an old post against the Hades.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And I gave you some for digging into an old post against me.

[alanschu]

That's wasn't so much digging, as it was just remembering "

[astr0creep]

That's wasn't so much digging, as it was just remembering "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fair enough.

Moving on...

:">

[Judge Hades]

Where do you want On to move to?

[Dark_Raven]

Hellgate looks good especially if it's Diablo like.