Guard Dog Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 There's no financial information in that article at all. I'm very doubtful that JE was financially successful given the following factors: * The length of development and size of the development team. * The large advertising budget. * The quick fall-off in price at retail. Games generally don't fall off in price quickly if they are selling well. You can get Jade Empire for $20 new at Best Buy. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Going off at a tangent here. Typically speaking, do developers realize a higher return on console games versus PC games? As a rule, which could be expected to sell more units? Actually are the two even statistically comparable? I read on the Bethesda forums that Morrowwind PC out sold the same console title at something like 3 to 1. Do you know (or can you say) how KOTOR2 for PC did versus the Xbox version? The reason I ask is that the root of these JE discussions (here and at the Bio boards) was that Bioware erred by not making a PC port of JE and cut their audience enough to hurt the game. I doubt that is the case and I also doubt that the JE project lost money but it's market performance seems to have been underwhelming to the folks in Edmonton and Redmond. Also, the desicion to make (or not) a PC port would be made by the publisher right? Anyone want to weigh in on these points? "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Volourn Posted February 10, 2006 Author Posted February 10, 2006 "Gromnir brings up some really good points." Except for the fact that with Troika, their publishers no longer wanted to actually work with them more. Remember, Troika wanted to do an Arcanum ; but the publisher didn't want any part of it. Troika had repeated stated they would LOVE to more stuff with TOEE (eitehr epxansions or sequels); but Atari was apparantly not interested. In BIO's case, MS has no problems working with them again. Afterall, MS is ME's publisher as well.. I doubt that MS would want to work with BIO again if JE financially failed. Not to mention the fact that even though BIO hasn't, MS has already 'announced' JE2. So, comparing BIO and Troika in this instance is rather poor. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
alanschu Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 (w00t) Game over, man! (w00t) Game over! (w00t) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Everytime you quote Hudson, I like you a little more In any case, it's probably no longer prudent for me to actually comment anymore "
Volourn Posted February 10, 2006 Author Posted February 10, 2006 Why? Yoy work for BIO now, Mr. Alberta? DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
alanschu Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) Nope (not yet anyways :D). Though I have been spending a ton of time there as they have a games night once per week. Given I am also a tech-geek computer programmer, they either "forget" that I don't actually work there, or they just don't care. They don't go out of their way to tell me the dirtiest secrets and super inside information, but just in general discussion about things I'm pretty sure they probably say stuff that technically isn't "cleared" for someone such as myself. They probably also realize that I'm not an ass and wouldn't compromise my relationship with them anyways....given that the games nights are fun and I'd like to keep getting invited Plus it would ultimately leave my friend (as well as my new friends) responsible and I wouldn't want to see them get pooched over because of me anyways. Not about to go burning my bridges, so to speak. I did just start an internship on a project (ScriptEase) that does have a relatively close relationship to Bioware, given the nature of the project. Edited February 10, 2006 by alanschu
mkreku Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Keep those lips zipped Mr. Shoe <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes. Telling would be wrong. Unless you told it all in the NHL thread, using only obscure hockey terms! Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish!
metadigital Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 I don't get why Volo even cares if JE was a failure or not...save for rampant fanboi-ism, assuming of course that he doesn't have a stake in Elevation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Certainly isn't worth TWO threads. I think Magical Volo was called on his fanBioism and is just unconsciously stuck justifying one of his egregious claims. " "Gromnir brings up some really good points." Except for the fact that with Troika, their publishers no longer wanted to actually work with them more. Remember, Troika wanted to do an Arcanum ; but the publisher didn't want any part of it. Troika had repeated stated they would LOVE to more stuff with TOEE (eitehr epxansions or sequels); but Atari was apparantly not interested. In BIO's case, MS has no problems working with them again. Afterall, MS is ME's publisher as well.. I doubt that MS would want to work with BIO again if JE financially failed. Not to mention the fact that even though BIO hasn't, MS has already 'announced' JE2. So, comparing BIO and Troika in this instance is rather poor. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Given the woefully bare lineup of games announced and released for the Xbox 360, I wouldn't say that because they've announced JE2 therefore the first game was a shining success. Keep those lips zipped Mr. Shoe <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ... Or is that tongues in your shoes, Mr Zip? " OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
alanschu Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Tell that to George Zip! Bonus points if anyone can tell me the movie!
J.E. Sawyer Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 In BIO's case, MS has no problems working with them again. Afterall, MS is ME's publisher as well.. I doubt that MS would want to work with BIO again if JE financially failed. Decemberish reports put Jade Empire at less than half a million units sold through. And certainly a good portion of that was at reduced cost. I can't even get creative enough with math to make that anything but a big loss. We're talking about something that sold Icewind Dale numbers and conservatively cost three times as much to make. twitter tyme
Darque Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Yikes That sounds really economically painful for them
Draikin Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 I dont think they reduced the price too much. Here are the NPD numbers for USA, i dont have august because i was on holyday April XBX JADE EMPIRE LIMTED ED $5,128,764 103,446 XBX JADE EMPIRE $4,812,583 96,454 May XBX JADE EMPIRE $1,235,291 25,293 XBX JADE EMPIRE LIMTED ED $1,076,697 21,832 June XBX JADE EMPIRE $497,095 10,615 XBX JADE EMPIRE LIMTED ED $608,808 13,851 July XBX JADE EMPIRE $305,140 9,868 XBX JADE EMPIRE LIMTED ED $333,287 10,848 September XBX JADE EMPIRE $182,625 6,442 XBX JADE EMPIRE LIMTED ED $193,241 6,508 October XBX JADE EMPIRE $81,501 3286 XBX JADE EMPIRE LIMTED ED $117,107 4593 Limited: $7,457,904 161,078 (average $46.3) Normal: $7,114,235 151,958 (average $46. Total: $14,572,139 313,036 (average $46.6) For comparison, as of June 2005, Kotor2 Xbox sold 625,637 copies in the US (which is half as good as Kotor1).
Diamond Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Well, at least now the facts are consistent with the title of the thread.
SteveThaiBinh Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Draikin, how do you get these numbers? Are they publicly available? What does LIMTED ED mean? Surely it can't be 'limited edition' when it sold more than the 'normal' game? "An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)
Llyranor Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 (edited) Well, the Limited Edition had extra fluff and cost the same. And wow, those numbers dropped really quickly. Edited February 10, 2006 by Llyranor (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Draikin Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Draikin, how do you get these numbers? Are they publicly available? What does LIMTED ED mean? Surely it can't be 'limited edition' when it sold more than the 'normal' game? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sometimes those numbers are leaked :ph34r: The Halo 2 "limited" edition sold more than 2 million copies, it's an easy way to charge 10$ more In Jade Empire's case it seems it backfired since they couldn't sell them and probably had to reduce the price. Forza Motorsport also didn't sell very well, i think it's because the Xbox was dead at this point (X360 announced at E3).
kirottu Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Total: $14,572,139 313,036 (average $46.6) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wonder how much of that money is Bioware going to see... After shipping costs, shops take their part, microsoft takes it This post is not to be enjoyed, discussed, or referenced on company time.
Draikin Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Usually a contract with Microsoft is not a bad contract. They gave 10$ million to DoubleFine for Psychonauts and didn't even publish it.
Meshugger Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Well, atleast Bioware got my sweet money. I even went as far as purhasing the limited edition of Jade Empire, all because i wanted a extra character to play. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Judge Hades Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 I personally don't care if the game was a success or failure. Its a good game and I like it. That is the only thing that matters to me. I too bought the Limited Edition Jade Empire. They had the normal version and the LE version available and both at the same price.
J.E. Sawyer Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Going off at a tangent here. Typically speaking, do developers realize a higher return on console games versus PC games? As a rule, which could be expected to sell more units? Yes, better on console. Part of that is doubtlessly because PC SKUs are almost always secondary or tertiary SKUs. It's rare for something to be developed for PC and ported to console. It's much easier to build to the specs of the console and port to PC. Actually are the two even statistically comparable? I read on the Bethesda forums that Morrowwind PC out sold the same console title at something like 3 to 1. Do you know (or can you say) how KOTOR2 for PC did versus the Xbox version? Morrowind was a game in a PC franchise taken to console. The Elder Scrolls had a good following on PC so it shouldn't be surprising that it sold better there. When did the Xbox version of Morrowind come out compared to the PC version? I honestly can't remember. The reason I ask is that the root of these JE discussions (here and at the Bio boards) was that Bioware erred by not making a PC port of JE and cut their audience enough to hurt the game. I doubt that is the case It's possible. Then again, playing Jade Empire on PC without a controller would be infuriating. I think BioWare/MicroSoft made the right decision for Jade Empire considering the type of game it was. and I also doubt that the JE project lost money but it's market performance seems to have been underwhelming to the folks in Edmonton and Redmond. I don't think $14M would exceed JE's development, marketing, and distribution costs. Also, the desicion to make (or not) a PC port would be made by the publisher right? Anyone want to weigh in on these points? Yes, it would generally be requested by the publisher. There are occasions where a developer really wants to do one and, if their contract allows, they can take it to another publisher. By the way, this has no reflection on the perceived quality of Jade Empire. It certainly received very high reviews across the board. I think JE's problem was that sadly, not enough people found the Chinese mythological concept interesting in an RPG. twitter tyme
Judge Hades Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 I don't think it was strong enough in the chinese mythology department, but did a decent job representing it. I don't mind CRPGs that follow different mythologies personally. What I would like to see is a CRPG that follows the Hindu mythology. That could be very interesting if done right. I also agree that JE would make a poor port unless they completely rewrite the interface that it can be used properly with keyboard and mouse and I think it is the wrong type of game for that as much as NWN 1/2 (toolset included) would have a wrong feel on console. Oh, I think that Morrowind came out for both platforms around the same time if memory serves.
Llyranor Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 I actually love Chinese mythology and Wuxia, but my main gripe was that JE pretty much bastardized/Westernized it. The main character designs are mindnumbingly awful. Of course, "it's only BASED on ancient China if the legends were true lol", meh. (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it)
Meshugger Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 A CRPG based on the Hindu mythology. I like the idea :cool: Ofcourse, a ninja CRPG would be the best thing since cake. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Judge Hades Posted February 10, 2006 Posted February 10, 2006 Yes, but it was something I would expected from Bioware. Bioware maintains their formula regardless of genre of CRPG, and their formula story writing is completely western in its design. Still, Black Whirlwind is one of my favorite Biowarian characters.
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