Gabrielle Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 30 hours is awesome and so is level 20 characters. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That's right my little green friend, that's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 30 hours is awesome and so is level 20 characters. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree, but not together, unless you start at 15th to 16th level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 30 hours is awesome and so is level 20 characters. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree, but not together, unless you start at 15th to 16th level. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe video games just aren't your thing anymore? "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Of course they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Opus Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 30 hours is awesome and so is level 20 characters. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I agree, but not together, unless you start at 15th to 16th level. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe video games just aren't your thing anymore? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can't speak for The Judge, but I've been wondering the same thing, myself. Where the levels are meaningful in the game system (such as DnD levels) I vastly prefer slow level progression, for a variety of reasons. I prefer games designed around the premise that my character is still part of the world in which events take place, and that my character is bound by the rules of that game world just like everybody else, instead of games that put my character first regardless of any other consideration. I prefer games where it is possible to stumble across fights that are simply too hard for me. I don't expect to be the Moste Powerfule Knyght On Lyfe at the end of my month-long tenure as an adventurer; there should always be somone out there who's stronger than I am. Always. I prefer games with stories that extend to every aspect of that game, from the rumour-mongering peasants to the ruins found in the woods at the edge of town to the placement of the monsters: having combat for the sake of combat isn't what I'm after in a cRPG, and having a deep story that only extends to a handful of NPC, a specific fight or two, and one or two choices in an otherwise repetitive gameplay experience doesn't do it for me anymore. Having combat offer a tactical challenge and nothing more is pointless; combat for the sake of combat, just so that you can fight another fight that will somehow be balanced to provide the exact same level of challenge you encountered 10 levels ago, only there are flashier lights and bigger monsters involved now. There's got to be more behind a fight than an experience point or two and a shiny new weapon. Maybe I'm too picky, maybe I'm just bored with games in general. Or maybe they're just not making the games I really want to play. *shrugs* I suspect all apply with me at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Of course they are. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> They don't seem to be, given that all of them seem to be unfun to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I find many games fun, but not many games balanced. I am looking for a challenging, balanced, and fun game. Being 20th level in 30 hours is definitely not balanced. Frankly that is very lopsided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkan Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I find many games fun, but not many games balanced. I am looking for a challenging, balanced, and fun game. Being 20th level in 30 hours is definitely not balanced. Frankly that is very lopsided. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can it be balanced, though? I say yes, but I don't think any developer is going to put in the time necessary to do so (not completely, anyway). "Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials "I have also been slowly coming to the realisation that knowledge and happiness are not necessarily coincident, and quite often mutually exclusive" - meta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 20 levels in 30 hours using the DnD rules set can never be balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiser_Cain Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Do you even know what 'balanced' means? Yaw devs, Yaw!!! ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.E. Sawyer Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Yep. Considering that people seem to differ on whether or not 20 levels in 30 hours can be balanced, I don't think you share the same definition as some others. twitter tyme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) So? 20 levels in 30 hours is not balance. For proper level advancement there needs to be experience and time. Raw experience for the participation of events and time to reflect on those events to learn from the experience. That is how leveling is balanced in the d20 System, or for any role playing game system for that matter. Rapid leveling removes the instance of time and makes the game an unfun levelmilling. Edited January 13, 2006 by Judge Hades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) Maybe I'm too picky, maybe I'm just bored with games in general. Or maybe they're just not making the games I really want to play. *shrugs* I suspect all apply with me at the moment. I'm idly curious how long you've been playing computer games, since I've been feeling much the same way. I think for me it's the fact that all the games seem the same...not just now, but for a long time. All FPS are like still basically like Doom, only fancier, cRPG's haven't really changed at all for years, they just get prettier, and for action-RPG's, they're all like Diablo. Been there, done that. There's only so many times I can play essentially the same game, even if it's disguised in a shiny new wrapping of creatures, land design, 3D, weird skill names and story. Sadly, for me, I think games and repetitive environments/scenarios etc. aren't as durable at keeping your interest over many years, unlike, say, books, where your own imagination for the visuals helps overcome the fact that there's only so many plots in the world. Edit: To be not so totally off-topic...I think that the above contributes to my not minding shorter games...since it always feels like I've been there before, I don't mind the journey being a bit shorter. Perhaps 10 years ago I would have felt a bit more "cheated" by a short game. I dunno. Edited January 13, 2006 by LadyCrimson “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I find many games fun, but not many games balanced. I am looking for a challenging, balanced, and fun game. Being 20th level in 30 hours is definitely not balanced. Frankly that is very lopsided. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wouldn't "balanced" mean appropriate challenges for the current PC? Or more commonly that no classes have large advantages/disadvantages over others? I've never seen balanced apply to level progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Di Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Y'know, I've scanned this entire thread and I've yet to figure out which game the original post was even referring to. I suppose the word "Ferret" was supposed to be a clue, but being blonde and all, it was a clue I missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haitoku Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I find many games fun, but not many games balanced. I am looking for a challenging, balanced, and fun game. Being 20th level in 30 hours is definitely not balanced. Frankly that is very lopsided. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wouldn't "balanced" mean appropriate challenges for the current PC? Or more commonly that no classes have large advantages/disadvantages over others? I've never seen balanced apply to level progression. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hades is bitching about a number and that fact that you will be fighting higher tier monsters too soon. Difficulty doesn't matter to him, only the fact that you hit 20 too soon according to his precious rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 "Wouldn't "balanced" mean appropriate challenges for the current PC? Or more commonly that no classes have large advantages/disadvantages over others?" Yeah. This is pretty much my defintion as well. But, ehy, it's me so maybe I'm wrong.... Nah. Impossible. (w00t) DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Y'know, I've scanned this entire thread and I've yet to figure out which game the original post was even referring to. I suppose the word "Ferret" was supposed to be a clue, but being blonde and all, it was a clue I missed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's NWN 2 if you need to know. -5 points for reading comprehension. kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiser_Cain Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Well he's insane, I have a job thank you. 40 to 60 hours is pretty good for powering through the main quest. With an equal number of optional side quests. That's a solid game. But for Nwn it matters a bit less since you presumably will be playing mods. This is where I have problem with the level caps. I beat the first OC at level 17, so I don't have a problem playing a standard game, but after 60 hours spread out over a few months, I have a tendency to become attached to my character. This is why I want to continue playing into epic levels. I want to keep playing my character until I'm done with it not when the game peters out or the game says to quit. What's the point of being able to mod the game if you can't run character in it? If you have to keep restarting characters your mod basically is competing with the OC instead of being an extension. Yaw devs, Yaw!!! ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Y'know, I've scanned this entire thread and I've yet to figure out which game the original post was even referring to. I suppose the word "Ferret" was supposed to be a clue, but being blonde and all, it was a clue I missed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think this thread was split off from another one by the "almighty" Shadowstrider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musopticon? Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) To Weiser: Ehmm...who says you can reach level 20 or anything near it in the campaign? The experience flow migh stagnate somewhere around 11-13 for all we know. And I wouldn't mind. There'd be plenty of leveling up, considering you have up to 4 dudes in your party. Edited January 13, 2006 by Musopticon? kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Oops, ignore my above reply, I got my threads confused Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 I've done that before. And I'm pretty sure, in very rare circumstances, the board itself misplaces threads. I've had posts that were replies in a different thread, complete with quotes and everything, end up in a different thread before. I've only had it happen to me twice on this board though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Oops, ignore my above reply, I got my threads confused <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hahaha I should quote it and sig quote it. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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