Judge Hades Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 If you soloed BG1 yeah, it is easy to reach the cap and if you solo NWN 2 OC then you should reach higher levels than if you had a party. I am not saying to cap the game at 8th level. They should cap the game at 20th, but design the Official Campaign that if you are going to have a full party then you should end the OC somewhere between 6th to 8th level. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah, but I did solo NWN. I'm pretty sure most people came pretty close as well. The funny thing is, when I played the game with my roommate, we finished the game around level 15 instead. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am talking about NWN 2 not NWN 1 here. When I played NWN 1 I was 20th level at the beginning of chapter 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atreides Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Gee, share the couple of times in which one kills a player character and you get labeled a Killer DM that enjoys killing PCs. Whatever, beleive what you want. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'm pretty sure you said you'd have a branch "randomly" break and crush the PCs if you felt like they were pissing you off. Either that or have a series of improbable, if plausible events to finish them off. Spreading beauty with my katana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) No I don't. For the most part I only kill player characters due to combat where running away is an option, they do something stupid like put on a necklace of strangulation without properly identifying it, go into a house mimic then waking it up, or follow a kobold named Killit Kwik or a goblin named Squashie Menow. Most of what happens to the player characters, good or ill, is really up to the players. I don't plan out much in my camapigns except for a few key individuals and general themes of which I am using. Beyond that the PCs are free to do whatever they want and if that gets them in trouble that is where the fun begins. If a bunch of 1st level characters want to go to the dragon's lair who am I to say no. Edited January 12, 2006 by Judge Hades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atreides Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I think it was related to your story about the corridor with kobolds firing arrows of explosion through the cracks in the walls. Spreading beauty with my katana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aVENGER Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I thought IWD2 was a little too long, as well. It was a reaction to criticism about HoW. If we had cut a few maps from that game and made the rest of the game better, I think the end result would have been superior. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It was still a fine game and I had a lot of fun playing and even re-playing it a few times. I clearly remember having much more fun with IWD2 than with the NWN1 OC back in 2002. Party tactics + well designed combat encounters >>> moronic AI + a bunch of randomly placed enemies. I found the 'party vs. party' battle for the holy avenger sword particularly challenging and very well designed. Hopefully, we'll see something similar in NWN2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 They weren't using arrows of detonation, but wands of fireballs. Okay the scenerio was what I got out of the Dragon Mountain adventure. A group of kobolds raid a village the PCs were in. They used one shot wand of fireballs (5d6) as the initial surprise round attack. A lot of villagers died but the party was on average still had half their hit points left. After the wands were used they kobolds switched to crossbows to pick off anyone still alive. At the end of the combat 2 PCs were down but not dead while the rest were in sad shape. They could have easily ran away since the goal of the kobolds were to destroy the village and if people ran away that meant less work for them. In any case one kobold was captured by the party and that kobold was named Killit Kwik, which I thought it would be a good clue for the party but it wasn't. The monk of the group stood up for Killit and even gave its unused wand of fireballs back to him. They told Killit that if he leads the party to where the kobold came from they would let it live. The kobold readily agreed. Well, that lil' Kobold led the party to the lair alright. The kobolds were servitor of a great wyrm half fiend red dragon and led them right to an ambush where 1 party member was indeed killed and the monk had a fireball hemmorroid. 3 other party members were down and 2 of the survivors picked up their friends and ran away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 My favorite line was when the group was going down the corridor and the paladin was using his detect evil ability. The kobold glowed. Paladin: Get out of the way Killit, I'm trying to detect evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Back on topic here. Rapid leveling is bad and the game should be longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atreides Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 In any case one kobold was captured by the party and that kobold was named Killit Kwik, which I thought it would be a good clue for the party but it wasn't. The monk of the group stood up for Killit and even gave its unused wand of fireballs back to him. They told Killit that if he leads the party to where the kobold came from they would let it live. The kobold readily agreed. It would have been cooler (if not more disturbing) if the Killit Kwik shot off a fireball right then and killed everyone. Spreading beauty with my katana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 If I was really a killer DM I would have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I think they need to revise the design doc and take a few lessons from japanese game designers. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wish I had the design doc for Final Fantasy VII so I could learn the exact formula required to make 40% of the gameplay hours consist of random encounters and summon effects. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> (w00t) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 "You do know FR is a high-level campaign setting?" No. And, IWD2's combat was not that challenging. IWD combat was challenging. As for Hades killing PCs. Outside of his sticking a fireball up some monk's behind; big deal. I allow my players to make dumb mistakes too that end up killing them. The DM shouldn't control the players. The DM's job should be allow the players to explore the world as they see fit. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellester Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Actually I though IWD2 was the perfect length for a game. If NWN2 was the same length I would be very happy. Honestly I think its one of those games that was just the perfect length. You got lots of gameplay hours out of it so you could get attached to your characters and immersed in the story, but it didn Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 An excellent point by Monsieur Sawyer. I must admit that the 20th time I'd seen Knights of the Round and its minutes long summon, it kind of lost its charm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llyranor Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I earned my levels in KOTOR2, Hades! I EARNED THEM! (Approved by Fio, so feel free to use it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 No one earned their levels in KotOR 2. It was too freaking easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathaniel Chapman Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I always have a difficult time understanding complaints about length... wouldn't you prefer a shorter overall game that had deeper content rather than a longer, less polished game? I mean, for example, Fallout was not a very long game, honestly. 10-15 hours probably my first time through. If it had been 30-40 hours but didn't have as many choices or as much branching content, I think that would have been significantly worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Nathaniel for the win! P.S. Of course, FO2 was significantly longer and still had lots of branching stories, plots, and quests... DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhruin Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Has anyone actually confirmed the anticipated character levels for the OC? Just because the cap is 20 doesn't mean they have to hit it. I'm not sure how anyone could see the levelling in BG as "fast". I think the game took me >50 hours and the cap was 8, right? I see to recall plenty of complaints about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darque Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I always have a difficult time understanding complaints about length... wouldn't you prefer a shorter overall game that had deeper content rather than a longer, less polished game? I mean, for example, Fallout was not a very long game, honestly. 10-15 hours probably my first time through. If it had been 30-40 hours but didn't have as many choices or as much branching content, I think that would have been significantly worse. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Can't we have it halfway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellester Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I always have a difficult time understanding complaints about length... wouldn't you prefer a shorter overall game that had deeper content rather than a longer, less polished game? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 Again they are dodging my question.l What is the end level of the character with an average play through with a full party will be? Will it be a around 7th level? 15th level? 20th level? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellester Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 I'm hoping for level 14-15. After that is just gets ridiculous. Life is like a clam. Years of filtering crap then some bastard cracks you open and scrapes you into its damned mouth, end of story. - Steven Erikson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 For a 30 to 40 hour game, anything above 10th is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weiser_Cain Posted January 12, 2006 Share Posted January 12, 2006 (edited) I always have a difficult time understanding complaints about length... wouldn't you prefer a shorter overall game that had deeper content rather than a longer, less polished game? I mean, for example, Fallout was not a very long game, honestly. 10-15 hours probably my first time through. If it had been 30-40 hours but didn't have as many choices or as much branching content, I think that would have been significantly worse. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wouldn't mind if the OC was sort except there isn't much to do besides that, with the level cap you basically have to start a new character every time you start a new game. Reach for that spell, oh wait you don't know that spell anymore. It's really frustrating to start characters over and over again, especially when you're playing spellcasters. Normally this'd be the time to go looking for mods but wait, with the level cap you're more than likely going to have to start a new character. Rinse, repeat. I wish I'd been in on just one of those planning sessions. Edited January 12, 2006 by Weiser_Cain Yaw devs, Yaw!!! ( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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