Plano Skywalker Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 right....one of the problems is that you are already a Jedi (or former Jedi)....they use "your" backstory to help tell the story. I can see the advantages of it from the dev's perspective. the problem is that it would make for really satisfying roleplaying if you had little to no backstory, or, at the very least, you had a number of different backstories to choose from. I was able to excuse it the first couple of times (BioWare does not know how to tell a story without a serious backstory and Obsidian folks like to use it too) but it is going to get harder and harder to excuse in the future.
Guest The Architect Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 Okay, I'm going to post my KOTOR III Story, now it can be found at the IMDb where my username is gazil and at LucasArts where my username is Sith'ari. Okay here it goes... My KOTOR III story would take place approximately 2-and-a-half years after the events of KOTOR II. Revan and the Exile are still in the unknown regions and the reason why they haven't returned to the Republic yet is a mystery that only I know (no there not dead.) Anyway, by orders of the Exile, T3-M4 and HK-47 (who originally went with the Exile to the unknown regions)have been sent back to the Old Republic to tell Bastila Shan (who is either head of the Jedi Order or head of the New Sith Empire depending on Revan's alignment which once again you pick) what Revan and the Exile have been up to and also something else important which I will not reveal. Now that Bastila knows what is happening, she prepares her Sith Empire/Jedi Order for the great war to come against the Ancient Sith Empire. She gathers some of the galaxies most powerful leaders including Mandalore, General Vaklu/Queen Talia (depending on Exile's alignment) Admiral Carth/Cede (depending on Revan's alignment) and someone who knew Revan quite well during the Mandalorian Wars, a man who was once an Alderaan Senator but now the Supreme Chancellor of the Old Republic, Aston Houlier. These leaders all share a common goal, to ensure the survival of their group and joining forces against this new threat is the only way, even if some groups have an historical rivalry. Anyway, your character is a force-sensitive, the pupil of Bastila Shan. Your a student at the New Jedi Academy/New Sith Academy (depending on Revan's alignment) and your the most promising student according to Bastila. Like it so far... I will continue on this and elaborate, expand more but in the mean time, if you have any questions, please ask and I will answer the best I can.
hawk Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 Sounds all right so far Architect. Sure, I can think of some questions. I think it is quiet a bit difficult to either start as a Jedi or as a Sith being one of the most promising students. Is your alignment at the start completely neutral, like in Kotor I and II or are you 10% light or dark depending on Revan's alignment. Also, is this New Jedi Academy / New Sith Academy in the same place, what planets do you suggest for the academy('s)? I also would be delighted if I had a Lightsaber from the start. Is this the case? Blue, Yellow, Green or Red coloured off course. Also, how would Bastila (as a Sith) convince Admiral Cede or Queen Talya to work with her? If the new Sith threat didn't reveal itself yet. Note that I am not saying that it would not be possible, I am just curious and I think that if we had good idea's the dev's might read and agree with it too. Master Vandar lives!
DAWUSS Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 I think Revan should have a big role, (though not the PC) and could also be one of the "key figures in rallying the Republic" (as Goto mentioned). This would obviously split K3 into LS and DS and LS is where Revan does as the above is mentioned and DS is when the True Sith take over and ruin the galaxy DAWUSS Dawes ain't too bright. Hitting rock bottom is when you leave 2 tickets on the dash of your car, leave it unlocked hoping someone will steal them & when you come back, there are 4 tickets on your dashboard.
Judge Hades Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 I like it up to the point that you forced the player to play a force user.
JediWeaponsMaster Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 I like it up to the point that you forced the player to play a force user. playing as a jedi makes the game a lot of fun. it allows for the game to be much more intricate and also makes it more difficult
JediWeaponsMaster Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 (edited) The main thing I want to stress for KOTOR 3 is it's difficulty level. In the previous two you get to a point where it is no longer difficult; none of your compaions matter because you are so strong and the enemy is horribly weak (and yes i am playing on the most difficult setting). i have always thought that it would be cool if in KOTOR 3 if when designing your character you could use the same system as in the Tiger Woods golf games. where your character is incredibly custom made to you. as far as classes go i don't care what you get to choose at the beginning as long as two things remain the same. 1: you can at some point,either the beginning or some where else, become a jedi 2: after becoming a jedi you can train your companions to become jedi (this was a major bonus on KOTOR 2). but they are going to have to work on how you influence the other characters. Edited December 30, 2005 by JediWeaponsMaster
hawk Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 The main thing I want to stress for KOTOR 3 is it's difficulty level. In the previous two you get to a point where it is no longer difficult; none of your compaions matter because you are so strong and the enemy is horribly weak (and yes i am playing on the most difficult setting).i have always thought that it would be cool if in KOTOR 3 if when designing your character you could use the same system as in the Tiger Woods golf games. where your character is incredibly custom made to you. as far as classes go i don't care what you get to choose at the beginning as long as two things remain the same. 1: you can at some point,either the beginning or some where else, become a jedi 2: after becoming a jedi you can train your companions to become jedi (this was a major bonus on KOTOR 2). but they are going to have to work on how you influence the other characters. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Those are some good points JediWeaponsMaster. Indeed, what is a Kotor game if you are not playing as a Jedi, and the difficulty setting, well indeed it is true that particularly in Kotor II what does it matter after level 20. In Kotor I at least the Star Forge could be very difficult if you choose to go on your own and on Difficulty setting "Hard". Also, in Kotor II the Random Loot Generator means that you also don't have to worry about money. Just sell a lot of Garbage and buy the good items, reload, reload etc. And about Jedi Training with others, true. I guess you should have training with a Master during the game and later provide training to others as well. That's a good idea. O wait, since Judge Hades is still spamming almost every page in this thread with the fact that he doesn't want to play as a jedi, well then I am going to spam him every time with this: I like it up to the point that you forced the player to play a force user. If you don't want to play as a Jedi! Then equip yourself with HEAVY ARMOR and only select Force powers which are restricted by Armor! Then you are no longer Jedi. Master Vandar lives!
Judge Hades Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 (edited) playing as a jedi makes the game a lot of fun. it allows for the game to be much more intricate and also makes it more difficult <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not for me. Jedi are way too uber powerful and I find uber powers boring and defintely unfun. Edited December 30, 2005 by Judge Hades
Diogo Ribeiro Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 I like it up to the point that you forced the player to play a force user. If you don't want to play as a Jedi! Then equip yourself with HEAVY ARMOR and only select Force powers which are restricted by Armor! Then you are no longer Jedi. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What he wants is the ability to play as distinct character archetypes rather than being forced to play as a Jedi, not overcome design limitations with parlor tricks. In a setting as vast as Star Wars, its an understandable wish although I doubt it'll ever come to that as long as the license is treated as another way to satisfy male adolescent fantasies.
Judge Hades Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 Just looking at the PnP Star Wars RPG (the d20 version for simplicity) there are only three primary classes for Force users: Jedi Guardian, ForceAdept, and Jedi Consular. Hell, there is no such freaking thing as a Jedi Sentinel. Now on the none force side of things there are Scoundrel, Scout, Soldier, Tech Specialist, Noble, and Fringer. Also you don't need to belong to a Force Class to use the force. All you need is the Force Sensitive feat, which can only be taken at First Level which opens up Force feats and skills without being a Jedi, Sith, or some other force using class. KotOR series is very limited which is a major drawback in my view. Should the option of being able to play a Jedi be in the game, yes, but also the option to not play a force user should be in as well.
Diogo Ribeiro Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 Should the option of being able to play a Jedi be in the game, yes, but also the option to not play a force user should be in as well. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But that wouldn't make people feel special!!!
Judge Hades Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 If they need a game to make them feel special then they have more problems in life than I do.
hawk Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 (edited) Not for me. Jedi are way too uber powerful and I find uber powers boring and defintely unfun. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you don't want to play as a Jedi! Then equip yourself with HEAVY ARMOR and only select Force powers which are restricted by Armor! Then you are no longer Jedi. Sorry, I can't just resist! Edited December 30, 2005 by hawk Master Vandar lives!
Judge Hades Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 No, I would be a Jedi in heavy armor. Besides I like to play rogue type characters. There aren't many scoundrels in heavy armor.
Kalfear Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 Personally I wouldnt play it if I couldnt become a jedi or if it took to long to become one. I hated part 1 (starting as a non jedi class I mean). No interest what so ever in playing just a soldier or scout. Loved that you didnt waste time on non jedi levels in part 2. Im sure they could come up with a system for everyone but if they forced you to play the scout/soldier role again or took to long before introducing jedi to you, Id probably just pass on the game. More then enough Star Wars games out there that you can play non jedi classes in. Course I still hope they continue the storyline in part 3 from where it left off in part 2, that stories not finished and is a great set up. Kalfear Disco and Dragons Avatar Enlarged
cloroxmartini Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 it would be interesting if in the very beginning of the game, there would be certian preset characters you could choose from. maybe a jedi, a republic soldier, a sith lord or soldier... the part of the main story you would play through would depend on the character you chose. so each character you chose would make the story play differently. like if you chose to play a republic soldier, the story would take you to worlds that wouldn't be accessable if you had chosen any other character. Does that make sense? of course you would still be able to choose their appearance and everything. you could also have all the different character classes' stories intertwine somehow at the end.
JediWeaponsMaster Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 (edited) Personally I wouldnt play it if I couldnt become a jedi or if it took to long to become one. I hated part 1 (starting as a non jedi class I mean). No interest what so ever in playing just a soldier or scout. Loved that you didnt waste time on non jedi levels in part 2. Im sure they could come up with a system for everyone but if they forced you to play the scout/soldier role again or took to long before introducing jedi to you, Id probably just pass on the game. More then enough Star Wars games out there that you can play non jedi classes in. Course I still hope they continue the storyline in part 3 from where it left off in part 2, that stories not finished and is a great set up. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> listen i think you and I (kalfear) are the only ones that like KOTOR 2. i agree with you on everything. i think 2 was better because of the instant jedi classes, the prestige classes, and the ability to make other characters jedi Edited December 30, 2005 by JediWeaponsMaster
JediWeaponsMaster Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 does everyone think that the KOTOR storyline was bad? personally i don't think it was bad at all. i understand that true the KOTOR games are RPGs but we should not get caught up in the stories because first and for most the are games. sure every good game needs a good story line but storylines should not be what is critized. a lot of people on here say that KOTOR 2's storyline was not as good as KOTOR 1. However does that make it bad? OF COURSE NOT!
Plano Skywalker Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 @ Kalfear: oh, I agree that they have to continue to allow the PC to be Jedi...no question about it. if they get rid of Force-wielding PCs, then this franchise is over. I also like the idea of being able to start off as a Force-wielder as in K2....basically, have both: you start off as either a Force Adept or a Soldier, Scout, Scoundrel, Tech, whatever. Basically, everyone would eventually be a Jedi (it is not realistic to think of all those different endgames in the same game, IMO), but those who did not start off as an Adept will take much longer to become one and they will be able to keep their non-Jedi abilities as well after the switch. Also, the politics and romances would be a bit different. If you are not a Jedi early on, then someone like a Bastila handles the Force intrigue for you....it can be more or less the same story. And then there is the matter of lightsabers. I personally would not mind waiting 20 hours to get my lightsaber if it was reflective of what lightsabers do in the movies. Lightsabers kill on the first blow. Lightsabers slice through Gaffi sticks, etc.
Plano Skywalker Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 does everyone think that the KOTOR storyline was bad? personally i don't think it was bad at all. i understand that true the KOTOR games are RPGs but we should not get caught up in the stories because first and for most the are games. sure every good game needs a good story line but storylines should not be what is critized. a lot of people on here say that KOTOR 2's storyline was not as good as KOTOR 1. However does that make it bad? OF COURSE NOT! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> IMO, K2 was a better game than K1...the story was a little different for SW, but not really that different in the context of an EU story....K1 was a movie rip-off with alot of polish. K2 was a really good game despite the issues that prevented it from becoming a great game.
hawk Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 (edited) Personally I wouldnt play it if I couldnt become a jedi or if it took to long to become one. I hated part 1 (starting as a non jedi class I mean). No interest what so ever in playing just a soldier or scout. Loved that you didnt waste time on non jedi levels in part 2. Im sure they could come up with a system for everyone but if they forced you to play the scout/soldier role again or took to long before introducing jedi to you, Id probably just pass on the game. More then enough Star Wars games out there that you can play non jedi classes in. Course I still hope they continue the storyline in part 3 from where it left off in part 2, that stories not finished and is a great set up. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> listen i think you and I (kalfear) are the only ones that like KOTOR 2. i agree with you on everything. i think 2 was better because of the instant jedi classes, the prestige classes, and the ability to make other characters jedi <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Forget that, it's just that there are some dominating figures on this board who have 1000'ths of posts who want to play as a non jedi. Well, back when everyone played Kotor I on the Bioware boards, a lot of people, most (80% or more I guess) were holding back levels to get a 2/18 character (2 S class / 18 Jedi Class). But I don't think you have to worry. It's Knights of the Old Republic. Not Soldiers, Bounty Hunters or Smugglers of the Old Republic. Besides, I just like to continue (just as the NJC (Non Jedi Club)) saying that you could play as a non Jedi. Using Force powers and a Lightsaber is completely optional (in both Kotor 1 and 2). Edited December 30, 2005 by hawk Master Vandar lives!
Plano Skywalker Posted December 30, 2005 Posted December 30, 2005 yes, it is Knights of the Old Republic where there are more Force users than you can shake a stick at....but we need that reflected in the games....surely, Dantooine is not the only place Jedi gather in this era. surely, there are enclaves of Dark Jedi and/or Sith who teach their view of the Force....factions.....the point is OPTIONS, even if the DS player is forced to be the anti-hero and even if all roads lead to the same endgame, getting there with different OPTIONS (having some say in who teaches you, who travels with you, etc) would make a huge difference and add tons of replayability to the game.
Judge Hades Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 (edited) Jesus H. Christ, people. FIne. Play your stupid uber powerful jedi pieces of shat. I know why not have your characters have all the freaking force powers right at the beginning so that way if even on bugger goes aggro on you you can kill them instantly. Oh better freaking yeat, Why don't the devs let you use the force to blow up stars in supernovas. Oh, what a freaking great game that would be, Its people like you that are one of the reasons why I hate Star Wars games. Oh, I hate to break it to you freakmonkeys, but there are more than Jedi and Sith traditions in the SW galaxy. Edited December 31, 2005 by Judge Hades
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