KotoR 3: Ideas and Suggestions

[foxdez]

i believe that if you get too involved in the story line you are listening to a story rather than playing a game. i prefer story lines that i can influence. i don't want to have to listen to a extensive story at such a critical point (as in the end of KOTOR 1 after fighting Malak on the ship.) i didn't like GOTO's extensive speech about the galaxy's economics because i would not get to play through the direct results of my action; instead, i had to hear Kreia explain at the end. HORRIBLY BORING!!

 

So you play RPG (ROLE PLAYING GAME) not for the story but for the action I think you're playing the wrong game genre. Try Halo there's a lot action without the pesky storyline.

 

Just so you get it a RPG is supposed to have an emersive deep storyline which where the PC can interact and "role play" (hmm oh that's why they call it an RPG) with the game. Dialouge plays a big role in this obviously in any worth while story.

 

You know what, it's gamers like you whom the game designers feel they can get away with a helf-ass story and a few options <_< for a RPG

[moreKOTORplz]

they need a new way to make creds in the game. should take a page out of GTA and let you pimp some twlieks (almost had it in K2 so there is hope). use your force persuade to turn innocent twlieks into working girls...uber DS. pissed at a shipmate... turn them into money makers

[Arclam]

You are kidding. Its Star Wars. They don't want an M rating. And it is an KOTOR, not Grand Theft Speederbike.

Edited December 28, 2005 by Arclam

[BenKenobi]

I think that story plays an important role in every RPG. Of course, I prefer interactive story lines, that I can modify with personal choices. But I don't dislike all those speeches that add background to the story, they've their importance, too.

 

This is my personal list of what I would like in KOTOR III:

 

- I want a KOTOR III that doesn't change too much the overall look of the game and the playing system of the previous KOTOR I & II . I think that ALL THE PLAYERS EXPECT a strong involvement of Revan and the Exile in the story, as playable characters in your party OR one of them as the main character. It would be great to import saved games from KOTOR I & II to load your old Revan and Exile, and to have them in your party !

 

- I want a complete game, I desire that Obsidian takes all the necessary time to develop it, I don't want the same bugs/glitches/incomplete maps/low def. movies that affected KOTOR II. I want large maps, filled with details and interesting items, also if this takes more time in the develop of the game. The maps of KOTOR I were very good; some of the maps of KOTOR II were not very good.

I don't want entirely recycled and short locations; if you must to recycle a location, then change it or put in it something interesting. For instance, I think that in KOTOR II Korriban is a bad recycled location (too short, identical to the old Korriban) while Dantooine is a good recycled location.

 

- I want original and new sidequests, and not boring ones as: sell the droid and give the money to the poor guy; and similar.

 

- I liked very much the idea of KOTOR II to not insert locations from the Star Wars movies as Tattoine, Yavin, ... I DON'T WANT THEM !!! They are always the same, I've seen them ten hundred million times in other Star Wars games, and there's no reason to set the story in those planets. It is good to insert NEW planets, maybe to see Coruscant or Corellia or some other "alternative" planet that is referred to in the Star Wars saga but we don't know very well. It is good to take inspiration from Tales of the Jedi or other Expanded Universe tales set in the same time period.

 

That's all, sorry for the long post

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Just so you get it a RPG is supposed to have an emersive deep storyline which where the PC can interact and "role play" (hmm oh that's why they call it an RPG) with the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not only what is generally passed off as "deep" and "immersive" open to debate, it's also quite secondary when it comes to overall importance. Japanese RPGs by and large feature storylines which many believe to be deep, complex and immersive - yet there's only a handful that actually succeed in allowing gamers to roleplay. A good story, or even a story for that matter, has dubious importance as far as games, and especially RPGs, go. All that's needed is a set of controls and objectives that point gamers in the right direction; for the most part a story is only there to give players a greater degree of illusion and to lull them into believing that they're not playing Glorified Dungeon Crawl #967.

 

In regards to the roleplaying bit, back in the day where the pen and paper roleplaying games were coming around, they all suffered from poor stories with one dimensional characters - yet no one can deny roleplaying wasn't possible. It was there, and it was vast, simply because a player had infinite options open to him. And nowadays, as it was back then, all that a player really needs to properly roleplay is a simple notion of gameplay available to him - action and consequence. This can obviously be expanded into categories such as character archetypes, character skills, abilities, etc. which will enable each player to create unique characters with unique skills and so on. But at its core, roleplaying is nothing more than making it so a given, player-defined entity has a meaningful, definite role in a gameworld. And by role I'm not obviously talking about something like a character's class - that's his profession - I'm talking of the degrees of interaction and importance his actions have. This takes precedence over any story a writer can come up with for a game.

[hawk]

I think that story plays an important role in every RPG. Of course, I prefer interactive story lines, that I can modify with personal choices. But I don't dislike all those speeches that add background to the story, they've their importance, too.

 

This is my personal list of what I would like in KOTOR III:

 

- I want a KOTOR III that doesn't change too much the overall look of the game and the playing system of the previous KOTOR I & II . I think that ALL THE PLAYERS EXPECT a strong involvement of Revan and the Exile in the story, as playable characters in your party OR one of them as the main character. It would be great to import saved games from KOTOR I & II to load your old Revan and Exile, and to have them in your party !

 

- I want a complete game, I desire that Obsidian takes all the necessary time to develop it, I don't want the same bugs/glitches/incomplete maps/low def. movies that affected KOTOR II. I want large maps, filled with details and interesting items, also if this takes more time in the develop of the game. The maps of KOTOR I were very good; some of the maps of KOTOR II were not very good.

I don't want entirely recycled and short locations; if you must to recycle a location, then change it or put in it something interesting. For instance, I think that in KOTOR II Korriban is a bad recycled location (too short, identical to the old Korriban) while Dantooine is a good recycled location.

 

- I want original and new sidequests, and not boring ones as: sell the droid and give the money to the poor guy; and similar.

 

- I liked very much the idea of KOTOR II to not insert locations from the Star Wars movies as Tattoine, Yavin, ... I DON'T WANT THEM !!! They are always the same, I've seen them ten hundred million times in other Star Wars games, and there's no reason to set the story in those planets. It is good to insert NEW planets, maybe to see Coruscant or Corellia or some other "alternative" planet that is referred to in the Star Wars saga but we don't know very well. It is good to take inspiration from Tales of the Jedi or other Expanded Universe tales set in the same time period.

 

That's all, sorry for the long post

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Finally some bright idea's and it is certainly not a long post Ben. In the past, when this topic was quiet new there were other idea's like this but currently, yes sorry to say that, I consider more than half of the topic just Spam.

 

To your no.1 request, I can say that I agree with you, the storyline is one of the most important subjects of any RPG. Sure, I liked the improvements in Kotor II on the workbench. The new bench called a Lab Station, allthough this one was very unrealistic when you could instantly convert a grenade to a Life support pack but I don't find it to bad. But indeed, the overall look should indeed be quiet the same, and I somehow think it will be. Well, maybe we can have a new graphics engine so it will look very good.

 

To your no.2 request, why not remove the random loot generator. I remember wanting to go to korriban early to get the Solari crystal / to Kashyyyk for the Circlet of Saresh. It is so boring to reload a location / merchant / lightsaber person because you want a certain item / crystal / specific lightsaber don't you think.

 

No.3 request. I completely agree. Why not make quests far more meaningful and move up lightside or darkside. Have someone to intervene etc. Maybe something like the Genoharadan quests in the first game. You thought you were helping the republic, but no, you were killing Genoharadan Overseeers so you moved up to the DS. That's what we need. I didn't like it at all in the second game that you could side with the Mercanaries on Dantooine and with Vaklu on Onderon and you didn't get a single DS point. Who has ever heard of a LS sith.

 

About your 4th request. That's a good one too. How about this planet list:

Look at http://www.nav-computer.com/ if you need help

 

Almania

Alderaan

Byss

Chandrila

Coruscant

Falleen

Ilum

Khar Delba -- not in nav-computer but Khar Delba and Khar Shian are both Sith worlds

Khar Shian

Myrkr

Ziost

 

Okay, maybe that's a bit of a too long list but I am sure that some could be removed. And we could off course see Khar Delba and Khar Shian as one world, Shian is a moon of Delba. It will be like Dxun and Onderon which I also see a bit as one except that Dxun has no cities.

 

Well, I just hope we would see more of these posts rather then the usual. But it's not to late for anyone to make good posts that makes sense.

What makes sense? Okay, IMO, underbuild your posts. One line like: "I want to play as a Bounty hunter". Well, developers would (and should) not read this kind of comments.

Why do you want to play as a Bounty Hunter? IMO, it's only a limited Jedi Sentinel. It's a Sentinel without the possibilty to use a Lightsaber and Force Powers.

Ha, It reminds me a line of Jolee to Bastila : "From now on, you can treat me as any other non jedi in our group with a lightsaber, and force powers".

It would also affect so much of the game. I mean, Kotor is for a large part also about being a good guy, often refered to as the LS.

Or being a bad guy, the Dark path. Now, how would you play a Bounty Hunter as a DSider. Sure, it's quiet the same as doing it as a Jedi but keep in mind that most people like to also see an end like the one's we saw in Kotor I.

 

LS, joining the republic, save Bastila from the DS and defeat Malak, destroy the Star Forge.

Or DS, become the new Dark Lord and kill some of your companions.

 

How different will it be to become a bounty hunter and destroy the Jedi Order to let the True Sith concer the Republic only to, we know it will happen, kill you. Don't say you could become a new ruler of the Sith without Force Powers and Lightsaber.

Sure, if you are a Lightsider the Republic will reward you with probably both credits and gratitude for doing your part.

Also, consider that we also have quiet some solo missions in Kotor II. I wonder if that's not enough for you, if it is imporved that is.

In all these solo missions you could play as:

 

Atton

T3-M4

Mira

Hanharr

Remote

 

And on Dxun as a party leader:

 

Atton

Visas Marr

Handmaiden

Mira

Disciple

 

Sure, I wouldn't mind having the NPC's have prestige classes like Bounty Hunter but do not do this to the player character. Some came up with different ending for so many player character classes. Well, to that I can say that the game is then becoming way to complicated. Keep in mind that a developer is not getting so much time to develop a game, maybe one or two years and that isn't enough time to make:

 

A) A very good Storyline for so many types of characters: read point B

B) Make 6 different storylines to suit every different storyline e.g:

* The Jedi / Sith storyline (2 endings)

* The Bounty Hunter storyline (again 2 endings, or do you wish one ending, no DS or LS)

* The Soldier storyline (2 endings)

* A Droid storyline???

 

If anyone here would be interested to make a long post about how you would see it possible to make several storylines or even 1 storyline and two endings (DS and LS), A Grey ending would be great IMO as well as it improves replayability but not much more. The developer must spend most of the time in the storyline. We all saw what happened to Kotor II and I doubt anyone would want to see a Kotor III with even more bugs and an even more uncompleted storyline. Or are there some people out there who are celebrating if they could run Kotor III and see that there is an option to play as a Soldier or Bounty Hunter and have a very uncompleted or simply boring storyline like:

 

Go to Republic Headquarters, accept a mission to infiltrate in Sith Space, then a choice:

A) LS: Report back to the Republic Headquarters

B) DS: Report to the Sith Masters about who you are and report all republic secrets to them, where the military installations are etc.

 

To finally destroy the Sith fleet as a soldier in a space battle or plant some nukes in a Sith space station as a bounty hunter or fight the Dark Lord of the Sith as a Jedi. Or the other way around as a DSider of course.

No, Kotor is a very linear game which should come with a very good deep going storyline.

[Judge Hades]

Shouldn't that be covered with the spoiler tag or at least moved tothe Spoiler section?

[JediWeaponsMaster]

i believe that if you get too involved in the story line you are listening to a story rather than playing a game. i prefer story lines that i can influence. i don't want to have to listen to a extensive story at such a critical point (as in the end of KOTOR 1 after fighting Malak on the ship.) i didn't like GOTO's extensive speech about the galaxy's economics because i would not get to play through the direct results of my action; instead, i had to hear Kreia explain at the end. HORRIBLY BORING!!

 

So you play RPG (ROLE PLAYING GAME) not for the story but for the action I think you're playing the wrong game genre. Try Halo there's a lot action without the pesky storyline.

 

Just so you get it a RPG is supposed to have an emersive deep storyline which where the PC can interact and "role play" (hmm oh that's why they call it an RPG) with the game. Dialouge plays a big role in this obviously in any worth while story.

 

You know what, it's gamers like you whom the game designers feel they can get away with a helf-ass story and a few options <_< for a RPG

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

listen all i am saying is that you can get too involved in making a good storyline and forget that you are making a game not a novel. also a lot of people on here say that the storyline in KOTOR 2 is not as good as KOTOR 1. i feel they are about the same, but i think that KOTOR 2 was better but not for the storyline but for other things.

[Plano Skywalker]

I agree, this is not exactly "news" but this seems to be the best link to the Obsidian/K3/2006 rumor:

 

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=68684

[Gabrielle]

Rumors.

[Judge Hades]

Rumors are irrelevant. Only facts matters. Fact: Obsidian employee(s) have stated that KotOR 3 is not being worked on therefore Obsidian is not working on KotOR 3.

[Dyan]

Well, I read the thread and I wondered - why not a prequel? Serve in the Manalorian Wars? Stupid idea?

[moreKOTORplz]

You are kidding. Its Star Wars. They don't want an M rating. And it is an KOTOR, not Grand Theft Speederbike.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

:D at this point i don't see the need to be serious. i think judge is swaying me with his pessimism .

 

way to kill my hope judge :D

[Darque]

Grand theft speederbike sounds kinda fun

[moreKOTORplz]

twlieks gone wild

[hawk]

Well, I read the thread and I wondered - why not a prequel? Serve in the Manalorian Wars? Stupid idea?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it is not the thing people are looking for on the moment. Yes, you could see what would happen in the Mandalorian Wars but you know what would happen, right?

Revan and Malak will fight the Mandalorians, A lot of Jedi will join them including the Exile. Revan and Malak will fall DS. The Exile is the only one who returns to the Jedi Council.

I also doubt how you would choose light or Dark Side. And who do you want to play?

As Malak?

As Revan?

As the Exile?

Or as a Jedi and have the choice to fight the Mandalorians or go with the council. The latter option is... Meditating..... Meditating...... and Meditating.......

Hmm, boring game.

Also Imagine what it would be like if Return of the Jedi wasn't made and Lucas made the Phantom Menace before he went making Return of the Jedi?

No we do want a Kotor III after Kotor II, we wonder what happened to Revan and also the Exile.

[Judge Hades]

Well, I read the thread and I wondered - why not a prequel? Serve in the Manalorian Wars? Stupid idea?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Stupid idea. Prequels are stupid in of themselves. Stories are meant to go forward. If you wanted to start in the past then you start the story there and not a few years after. basic Creative Writing 101. Prequels, flashbacks (if overused), and the such are piss poor. Need proof? Watch Star Wars Episode 1, 2, and 3.

Edited December 29, 2005 by Judge Hades

[Musopticon?]

The SW prequels being piss poor does not in any way prove that prequels are always a bad thing.

Edited December 29, 2005 by Musopticon?

[Judge Hades]

They are not always a bad thing, but most of the time they are. I was simply using them as an example.

[Musopticon?]

"Prequels are stupid in of themselves. Prequels, flashbacks (if overused), and the such are piss poor."

 

^Explain that blurb then.

Edited December 29, 2005 by Musopticon?

[Judge Hades]

Personal opinion.

[Musopticon?]

You just contradicted yourself there. But it's alright, as I forget easily.

Edited December 29, 2005 by Musopticon?

[Judge Hades]

I always contradict myself, Mussy. Haven't you caught that yet?

[Musopticon?]

Well, you look like a **** when you do that. Which sorta negates any creed people might have had on you.

[Judge Hades]

Like I care.