cbs poll on evolution vs. creationism

[SteveThaiBinh]

@Blank: Thank you for trying to save us. I appreciate the thought behind it. Please let me, for my part, try to save you. Is it possible that the reason it seems to you unjust that good non-believers go to hell is because it would be unjust? Trust your instincts, not a two thousand year old book. Punishment because you don't believe what you're told? We wouldn't accept that from any government, so why should we accept it from God?

Edited November 9, 2005 by SteveThaiBinh

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Thank you for trying to save us.  I appreciate the thought behind it.  Please let me, for my part, try to save you.  Is it possible that the reason it seems to you unjust that good non-believers go to hell is because it would be unjust?  Trust your instincts, not a two thousand year old book.  Punishment because you don't believe what you're told?  We wouldn't accept that from any government, so why should we accept it from God?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There is no evidence that it comes from god anyway.

 

"faith is the faith of the lunatic"

[Baley]

Those were letters written by Paul, not Jesus, for cryin out loud. 

It's in the ****ing bible,what's this,selective reading?

 

And must I remind you that all disciples were touched by the Holy Ghost.

 

Tongues as if of fire appeared to them, parting and coming to rest on each of them, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues according to how the Spirit inspired them to speak (Acts 2:3-4).

 

As for Satanism, you said:

Christianity has more crimes under it's golden robe than Satanism ever will.

 

If you didn't mean what I thought, then I apologize.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. I stand by that statement.

2.That statement does not imply that Satanism is more "moral" than Christianity.

 

 

And another thing you ignorant buffoon Satanism as a religion or better yet philosophy has been evolving,unlike your beloved Christianity,with the passing of time and the advent of science.Remember the Enlightenment period or the theory of Evolution?

 

All this things have shaped it in one way or another.Good try though.

[Dark Moth]

Those were letters written by Paul, not Jesus, for cryin out loud. 

It's in the ****ing bible,what's this,selective reading?

 

And must I remind you that all disciples were touched by the Holy Ghost.

 

Tongues as if of fire appeared to them, parting and coming to rest on each of them, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in different tongues according to how the Spirit inspired them to speak (Acts 2:3-4).

 

As for Satanism, you said:

Christianity has more crimes under it's golden robe than Satanism ever will.

 

If you didn't mean what I thought, then I apologize.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. I stand by that statement.

2.That statement does not imply that Satanism is more "moral" than Christianity.

 

 

And another thing you ignorant buffoon Satanism as a religion or better yet philosophy has been evolving,unlike your beloved Christianity,with the passing of time and the advent of science.Remember the Enlightenment period or the theory of Evolution?

 

All this things have shaped it in one way or another.Good try though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Once again, it is not true Satanism. Perhaps you should actually read up on the subject. How many times do I have to repeat that? If you say that's Satanism, then you might as well say that Christianity that doesn't recognize God is still Christianity.

 

And as for your verse, the Disciples still were not perfect. They were not made into Gods. Peter denied Jesus three times, for crying out loud. Mary, however, wasn't an apostle and she never denied Jesus. Basically, the Apostles could make mistakes.

 

So try another one. I dare you.

 

 

Also, someone kill this thread already.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Mothman

[SteveThaiBinh]

There is no evidence that it comes from god anyway.

Evidence can't really be an issue in this, because the very idea of evidence belongs to the world of the doubter, not the believer. Asking for evidence for a religious belief is like asking if an atheist has 'faith' in evolutionary theory. Two worlds collide, and confusion is the result.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Evidence can't really be an issue in this, because the very idea of evidence belongs to the world of the doubter, not the believer.  Asking for evidence for a religious belief is like asking if an atheist has 'faith' in evolutionary theory.  Two worlds collide, and confusion is the result.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats why I insist everything be prefixed with something like possibly, alledgedly etc.

 

I see no reason to accept it as fact just on hearsay. I also dont see why people should be allowed to preach it as fact.

[Blank]

@Blank: Thank you for trying to save us.  I appreciate the thought behind it.  Please let me, for my part, try to save you.  Is it possible that the reason it seems to you unjust that good non-believers go to hell is because it would be unjust?  Trust your instincts, not a two thousand year old book.  Punishment because you don't believe what you're told?  We wouldn't accept that from any government, so why should we accept it from God?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for trying to save me too. The effort is appreciated. I did say that i was dissappointed that i believe that good non-believers will go to hell. I did not say that i felt it was unjust. It is dissappointing because somebody who had a well-lived life for the most part, did not accept God's grace. That is dissappointing. It's harder to see a good friend reject Christ than it is to see one such as Hitler reject Christ. Fear is said to be a bad way to govern places, but what if the fear is well-merited. God is to be feared (or rather, revered and taken seriously) because He is just, and He will punish where punishment is due. It's more of a warning: don't sin, because God's terrible wrath will be upon you. It's too late for us to take that warning, because we'll already be punished eternally if we don't have Christ to absolve us.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Thanks for trying to save me too. The effort is appreciated. I did say that i was dissappointed that i believe that good non-believers will go to hell. I did not say that i felt it was unjust. It is dissappointing because somebody who had a well-lived life for the most part, did not accept God's grace. That is dissappointing. It's harder to see a good friend reject Christ than it is to see one such as Hitler reject Christ. Fear is said to be a bad way to govern places, but what if the fear is well-merited. God is to be feared (or rather, revered and taken seriously) because He is just, and He will punish where punishment is due. It's more of a warning: don't sin, because God's terrible wrath will be upon you. It's too late for us to take that warning, because we'll already be punished eternally if we don't have Christ to absolve us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How old is the planet ?

 

How long has mankind existed ?

 

How long has christianity been around ?

 

I rest my case.

[julianw]

Blank - I think Mothman has a good point here.

 

I'm sometimes a little torn between an unbeliever's place in heaven.  The Bible states "I am the way, the truth, and the life, nobody comes to the father except through me."  Can that be interpreted as you have to believe in Jesus to get into heaven, or when it comes down to the decision, the judgement rests through Jesus.  Don't forget, supposedly it is because of his sacrifice we can get into heaven.  Perhaps that is what it implies? 

 

Because I know a lot of good, non-Christian people.  I would like to think God would not send these people to hell simply because they did not follow Christianity.  And what about those who never heard of Christianity in the first place?  What would God do about them?  Also, Jesus did say "Not everyone who comes to me saying 'Lord, Lord' will enter heaven" or something like that (I unfortunately do not have my Bible on hand).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Blank - You think the child-molesting priests actually know and believe in Christ? I say they don't. A man who could be afraid of the law, the government, or other man so that he does his crime in secret yet has not enough fear from his Lord to prevent him from ever doing such a crime obviously doesn't know God, doesn't know Christ, and cannot call himself a follower of Christ. Of course if he actually repents and tries everything in his power to atone for his sins, he might still receive salvation, but as those have not happened, I do not call him a Christian.

 

As you said yourself before, you judge the words from the Bible by your heart. Read what Mothman said above, Christ did say that 'nobody comes to the Father but through Me'. He declared Himself to be the final judge and the final gateway. Yet you know that He is the all-knowing and all-powerful. A good man might not know Christ's name or the words he spoke. But if he knows the spirit of Christ, which is truly what matters the most, and his actions exemplify all the good Christian qualities. Ask your heart, will Christ, whose heart is 'gentle and lowly' turn away such a good man?

 

Remember Christ also said 'whoever does the will of My Father in Heaven is my mother, brother and sister'.

Edited November 9, 2005 by julianw

[WITHTEETH]

Heres a good argument related to what Steve said.

 

Can Christianity be based on reason, faith, or both?

 

I believe Christianity can only be based on faith because it is a paradox. we can't believe by virtue of reason. I think you have to suspend reason for something higher in christianities case.

[thepixiesrock]

There are so many religions, how can you choose? What makes you think that your's is right and no other?

[julianw]

God has only one religion, that is to be good. It's the interpretation of 'good' that led to all these sects.

[WITHTEETH]

There are so many religions, how can you choose?  What makes you think that your's is right and no other?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Their religion is right because they say so. Indie rock is the best because i say so. The Pixies are best because you say so.

 

Its just a matter of personal opinion. we take what we know and make our best judgements. The more knowledge and reasoning you have the better equipped.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Heres a good argument related to what Steve said.

 

Can Christianity be based on reason, faith, or both?

 

I believe Christianity can only be based on faith because it is a paradox. we can't believe by virtue of reason. I think you have to suspend reason for something higher in christianities case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How does that saying go ?

 

"proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing"

[tarna]

30 minute time out guys.

This topic always gets people riled up. Take a few minutes to cool off.

I'll reopen this thread in 30 min.

[tarna]

Got lots of PMs on this. Some say close, some say reopen.

Since I said I'd reopen it, I will. Let's keep it civil guys.

[Bokishi]

Jesus fixed my hubcap!

[thepixiesrock]

God has only one religion, that is to be good. It's the interpretation of 'good' that led to all these sects.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you are saying your God came first, and all other religions are branches of your religion? I'm not talking about Christianity, I'm talking about all the religions of the world.

[LoneWolf16]

Jesus fixed my hubcap!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People keep telling me I look like Jesus. In fact, it's my nickname. :ph34r:

 

 

 

I'm the second coming...bow before my awesome and lethargic might!

[Atreides]

Can Christianity be based on reason, faith, or both?

 

I believe Christianity can only be based on faith because it is a paradox. we can't believe by virtue of reason. I think you have to suspend reason for something higher in christianities case.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm of the opinion that the perspective should have both. I'm pretty sure God would be happy for us to find out how things work.

 

Of course I'm for looking for the meaning beyond the surface - *knowing* the teachings vs reading/memorising (Planescape Circle of Zerthimon parallel) so some people might take exception because I don't fall into their stereotype.

 

It probably takes more thinking and reading carefully (that's my take why Christians are encouraged to read the Bible themselves), but it may have better rewards at least to the individual. Of course it's dangerous to have wacky interpretations (cults etc) thats why you need to make sure you have a firm foundation of the teachings of Christianity.

[Baley]

"The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual as a meaningful unity. If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs, it would be Buddhism."-Albert Einstein

 

What is the Noble Truth of Suffering?

Birth is suffering, ageing is suffering, sickness is suffering,

dissociation from the loved is suffering,

not to get what one wants is suffering:

in short the five categories affected by clinging are suffering.

There is this Noble Truth of Suffering:

such was the vision, insight, wisdom, knowing, light

that arose in me about things not heard before.

This Noble Truth must be penetrated by fully understanding suffering:

such was the vision, insight, wisdom, knowing, and light

that arose in me about things not heard before.

This Noble Truth has been penetrated by fully understanding suffering:

such was the vision, insight, wisdom, knowing, and light that arose in me about things not heard before.

 

[samyutta Nikaya, LVI, 11]

[Atreides]

In the future everyone will be Jedi.

[Guest Cantousent]

Jesus fixed my hubcap!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People keep telling me I look like Jesus. In fact, it's my nickname. :ph34r:

 

 

 

I'm the second coming...bow before my awesome and lethargic might!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh, get real. You're a yutz with a bad hair cut. ...And a doofus! :D

 

I'm a Christian. That's who I am. ...But it's not all I am. God created me to fill many roles, of which Catholic is only one.

[julianw]

God has only one religion, that is to be good. It's the interpretation of 'good' that led to all these sects.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So you are saying your God came first, and all other religions are branches of your religion? I'm not talking about Christianity, I'm talking about all the religions of the world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't have a religion and God is not my personal God but the universal God. All the religions in the world deal with the subject of God and they are all God's religions. Yes, they use different words to describe God's nature and give God different names. They had different rituals and customs about how to worship God and they don't all agree on how God should be served. It's because different messengers were sent to different regions of the Earth where people have different cultures and historical backgrounds. A Christian is no more right than a Buddhist on the subject of God because they worship the same God. You can believe in reincarnation or heaven and hell in this lifetime. These opinions no longer matter in the afterlife. They all believe that souls are eternal and this body is only a physical entity that perishes sooner or later. They all believe that there is a greater being that connects us all and that we may strengthen that connection through the practice of religion.

[Fionavar]

Thread Pruned ... obviously with the hope that there will be no further derailment ...