60 Hours of Hopeless Romancing

[subnubilus]

There are some spoilers in this post, so avoid it if you're allergic.

 

 

 

I just finished "The Sith Lords" for the Xbox earlier this evening, and I feel terrible! I've since read many reviews of the game and I do not agree with the majority of their criticisms, and in fact, I feel that this sequel is superior in -every- way to the original. The things which I personally criticized in the first game were all fixed or at least somewhat mended, and the story, dialogue, and general maturity of the narrative was improved. This is a game which I've taken very seriously, and that is why the issue I have has irked me immensely.

 

You see, the way I play these sorts of games is very much role-playing; I am an escapist and the World Obsidian presented me was my fancy. There was a lot to like, especially because I was allowed to play a "Gray Jedi" whereas in the first, I don't recall always having the option to disregard the crap from both the Jedi Council and the Sith. My character was an independent Light Sider, not because I was determined to be Light Side, but because that is how it played out. I role-played very personally, answering questions and taking actions the way I saw fit. I did not do things "just to see what happens" (as some of my friends have done), and tried my best to put myself in the place of my character. I got into it enough that in the first half of the game I was comparing it in my mind to my childhood experience of playing Final Fantasy VII, which captivated me like nothing ever had, and later in the game, when that excellent piece of music played as I walked to meet with the gathered Jedi Council, I could have cried if I was not so anxious to present myself before the Jedi (though I still walked, to gather my thoughts and take in the rebuilt Enclave).

 

The game supported this "mode of play", and the overall design was quite good in my opinion, despite some obvious shortcuts which I really do think hurt the game (the most glaring of which is the multitude of alternate responses you give during dialogue which do exactly the same thing as another response).

 

But right after I met with the Jedi Council, I sensed something was missing, and not in a good, climactic way, but as if something integral was being left out and wouldn't return. Atris's turn to the Sith didn't seem to make much sense, but it was plausible and I took it. After we did battle, the Handmaiden and I were able to talk, but it very much felt forced. The game didn't let me so much as clarify whether or not she was dead, dying, or just knocked out BEFORE fighting Atris, which annoyed me, but it was ok, I thought. And it WASN'T.

 

Here's the thing. My Handmaiden was NOT a Jedi. I liked her character the best of ANY of the characters. I thought the Echani aspect of her was cool, the not-quite-Jedi thing too, and she looked very cool. She was open to opinions and didn't have any definite, stupid ones, and she was not annoying. I really liked her a whole lot, and after gaining her trust, I have to admit that apart from watching Kreia suspiciously, my relationship with the Handmaiden was my biggest concern. She SEEMED like she wanted to learn the ways of the Force, and she SEEMED ready. She SAID she was ready. So why is it, considering all of this, that my Brianna was NOT a Jedi, and my Brianna was NOT talking to me about anything new after the first half of the game, despite being my main motivation to move forward?

 

A moment ago, I saw a picture on 1up.com of Brianna holding a lightsaber. This freaked me out because I don't even have any save games until AFTER I lose contact with EVERYBODY in my party, and having the Handmaiden go Jedi is what I had wanted to badly. It didn't take much looking to learn how one goes about taking her as a Padawan.

 

So the reason Brianna was giving me the cold shoulder was simple.

 

I didn't ask her to put her clothes back on.

 

Why not? Well, we had talked about this before, and she said it was how the Echani trained (which is what she was doing in the storage room day-in and day-out). I was not uncomfortable with it, and she certainly wasn't, so there was no reason to ask. I saw the response as jerk thing to say. But the designers made this THE ONLY trigger to advance the Handmaiden's plot along. THE ONLY TRIGGER.

 

I REALLY wanted her to go Jedi. I had a blue lightsaber constructed just for her and a Jedi outfit ready to give to her and everything; I was prepared and excited. I didn't think it would happen, but I thought it might, and I was not going to be caught unready. Getting near the end of the game, I realized this wouldn't happen, so her lightsaber laid unused in my inventory, but I still liked her, of course.

 

BUT

 

After our words at Telos, after Atris, she talked about being a disciple and following me and all this stuff that seemed to me to finally be moving us along to some sort of trust, some channel of communication. But you what happened instead? On Citadel Station, she reverted to responding to me with the same tired (and now irrelevant) dialogue she did earlier in the game. I winced at this glitch and moved on, hoping it would change, but no... not only did it not change, but BECAUSE I had not technically established the Handmaiden as a love interest, despite all my efforts, Visas Marr came with me. I didn't like Visas. I wasn't mean to her, but I told her I didn't like her like that, and I truly didn't. Apart from G0-T0, she was the one character I didn't particularily like. But SHE took Brianna's place... she and Canderous. And at the end of the game, Darth Traya had a bit to say about my "love", Visas. After our dialogue at Telos, the Handmaiden glitched out and then LEFT THE GAME ENTIRELY. But I trusted the developers through and through, and eventually, I saved over the last save I had before approaching the Jedi Council. The game could not have ended worse... and honestly, contrary to what many critics say, I didn't think the ending was bad, and so the ONLY thing that messed this game up for me was this one chunk of bad design. In a way, it ruined the second half of the game (after which Brianna said nothing new and didn't react to a changing influence), especially the post-Jedi Council stuff, which it glitched up and then finally topped it off by making a mess of the story... which I spent 60 hours working "my way" only to have it derailed and put on a seperate track which was contrary to my actions.

 

It REALLY sucks. I hate to be dramatic, but it ruined the game for me big time. I spent 60 hours playing through the game, taking in all it had to offer and doing my part to the best of my abilities. My setup was perfect, I made sure when I played I could get into it and my mood wouldn't disrupt the flow of the game... and then this happens. It bothers me because it's a glitch, just as bad (no, worse) as getting all my saves deleted, yet it wasn't a technical glitch so much as a design flaw. I wonder if there are similar reasons I didn't every hear Mira say anything new (that's right, I never got past her initial dialogue options), or why I didn't learn two of the Force Powers I had slots for. If my game got erased, I could have redone it, but it's too late for that, for now, and no time is like the first time anyway. I just have to accept that this game was sabotaged by some oversights.

 

Again, sorry to be so dramatic, but it was a big deal to me, and it's something I'm going to keep in mind for my future game dev career as a lesson. I doubt any amount of testing would have weeded this design flaw out, because I don't know that most people play like I do, or that most designers think the way I do... I don't know. But it's a bummer.

 

Obsidian: I loved your game, you did a GREAT job with it. I've been meaning throughout my play to congratulate you. This one thing slipped through and took me down, I know, but there was so much to this game, and you did so much right.

[dufflover]

I feel that this sequel is superior in -every- way to the original.

I haven't read your whole essay but I don't agree with you on this part.

 

but there was so much to this game, and you did so much right.

There's even more stuff they did wrong (and stuff that's not being done at all

patch

).

[subnubilus]

I feel that this sequel is superior in -every- way to the original.

I haven't read your whole essay but I don't agree with you on this part.

 

but there was so much to this game, and you did so much right.

There's even more stuff they did wrong (and stuff that's not being done at all

patch

).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've read a few posts just now about things upsetting people, but whatever. It's how I felt through the first playthrough, my only one probably, that matters. I try not to see the game as numbers but rather as a reality (fantasy, whatever)... which is why this sort of issue I had is especially glaring.

 

I thought I read somewhere that Bao-Dur can become a Jedi... what? No, right? Visas was the only Jedi I had with me, and like I said, I didn't particularly care for her character.

 

If there are a lot of problems, I don't think that means the game doesn't merit some congratulations. I think all the beauty and clever design is there, it's just been muddled up in part (or wholly) by some issues. There is still a lot of talent that went into this game, and judging by the game I imagine most of the core team really put their hearts into it. It's too bad, for me, other gamers, and the team that the flaws got through and turned out to be so big.

[EnderAndrew]

First off welcome to the forums.

 

I agree that KOTOR:2 improved upon KOTOR:1 in most areas. If the game had a little more development time, undoubtedly it would be heralded as better.

 

The Handmaiden did not learn the Force from you because you did not gain enough influence with her. When I played through, I failed to get enough influence with Atton, but Handmaiden was the first person I turned into a Jedi.

[SteveThaiBinh]

There are some spoilers in this post, so avoid it if you're allergic.

We do have a spoilers forum, you know. There are a couple of things you wrote that I'd like to comment upon, but until you or the moderators move this to the spoilers forum, I shall refrain.

[subnubilus]

First off welcome to the forums.

 

I agree that KOTOR:2 improved upon KOTOR:1 in most areas.  If the game had a little more development time, undoubtedly it would be heralded as better.

 

The Handmaiden did not learn the Force from you because you did not gain enough influence with her.  When I played through, I failed to get enough influence with Atton, but Handmaiden was the first person I turned into a Jedi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thanks for the welcome mat.

 

I did gain enough influence. She actually TOLD me she wanted me to train her in the ways of the Jedi, and then nothing came of that. From what I've read, what I failed to do was ask her to put her clothes back on. I didn't have enough influence with Atton to talk with him much, but I know with the Handmaiden it was not my problem, but rather that the trigger for her to move on to new dialogue was singular and arbitrary.

 

Steve, I don't see an option to move the thread, but I guess the mods will move it. Maybe tomorrow I'll feel more like myself and will be better able to carry on a discussion. I've been pretty zoned out tonight on account of the big let down (yes, I realize that I am a geek if there ever was one).

[EnderAndrew]

I never ran into that problem with her and I don't recall telling her to put her clothes back on, but maybe I did.

 

The mods can eventually move this to the spoiler area. For the time being just use spoiler tags.

[dufflover]

Thanks for the welcome mat.

*Looks at post count and jumps on the bandwagon*

I too welcome you to the forums.....wanna play Pazaak

 

Anyway just to put my post in a bit of context I did find most of K2 enjoyable but K1 would be superior overall. As your post exploring probably would've revealed, it's the ending that hurt it the most and also with me the general direction of the game, although luckily that can be ignored and I just play the game without taking too much notice of those bits.

[EnderAndrew]

KOTOR:2 was improved in the following areas:

 

Skills more useful

Non-Jedi characters more useful

Workbench

T3 much better character overall

Deeper storyline

Better dialogue

More force powers

Influence system

Better mini-games

Better dark side path

On the whole larger areas. KOTOR:1 had one really big planet and several small ones.

 

KOTOR:1 has the following advantage:

Better ending

 

Now add those up and tell me which is the better game overall?

[kirottu]

:D

[Sober]

KOTOR:2 was improved in the following areas:

 

Skills more useful

Non-Jedi characters more useful

Workbench

T3 much better character overall

Deeper storyline

Better dialogue

More force powers

Influence system

Better mini-games

Better dark side path

On the whole larger areas.  KOTOR:1 had one really big planet and several small ones.

 

KOTOR:1 has the following advantage:

Better ending

 

Now add those up and tell me which is the better game overall?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I haven't finished the DS side, but right now, it doesn't feel much different from LS (apart from the ending).

 

What really messed K2 was dialogue was sorta loopy, so you can do that classic go back and ask again trick, and I didn't really like Peragus/Telos as much after the first 3 times.

[dufflover]

KOTOR:2 was improved in the following areas:

 

Skills more useful

Non-Jedi characters more useful

Workbench

T3 much better character overall

More force powers

Influence system

Better mini-games

On the whole larger areas.  KOTOR:1 had one really big planet and several small ones.

Gotta remember these are improvements on K1 as suggested/commented by players. If these weren't done it'd be kinda disturbing...

 

Deeper storyline

And very alienating at times...

 

Better dialogue

I wouldn't say so...

 

Better dark side path

But nothing to show in the end for going DS

 

Now add those up and tell me which is the better game overall?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

K1 lol

[EnderAndrew]

Gotta remember these are improvements on K1 as suggested/commented by players. If these weren't done it'd be kinda disturbing...

So you discount improvements because you expect them?

 

You're not holding the games to the same standard. You can't compare them unless you can make some effort at being objective.

Deeper storyline

And very alienating at times...

The KOTOR:1 story didn't have much too it. The KOTOR:2 storyline has inspired speculation and debate. Clearly the story was deeper.

Better dialogue

I wouldn't say so...

KOTOR:1 had some of the cheesiest, ridiculous dialogue. Even on places like Peragus, I enjoyed watching the holo-vids and seeing how things played out, because each NPC felt like a real person. The dialogue was MUCH better in KOTOR:2.

Better dark side path

But nothing to show in the end for going DS

In a cliffhanger there is nothing to show either way. And whie people are want to rip on KOTOR:2's ending all day long, we forget that KOTOR:1's ending wasn't all that great. There wasn't much of anything to it. It was handled better than KOTOR:2's ending, but if Obsidian didn't rush the game, I'd argue KOTOR:2's ending would be better.

[Shryke]

But SHE took Brianna's place... she and Canderous.

 

uh... Visas and Canderous ALWAYS go with you to the Ravager... it's not a matter of who you have a "romance" with

[Arkendale]

Yeah. And you always have a romance with Visas, whether you want it or not. They didn't have time to do extra romance options.

 

P.S. I know it's probably just me, but I don't get the part about bad design.

 

P.P.S. Welcome to the forums

 

P.P.P.S. My brain hurts...

 

P.P.P.P.S. Way to many P.S's :D

[EnderAndrew]

Lots of planned stuff got cut.

[Arkendale]

Okay, after reading that again, I understand what you mean.

 

Are you sure that the only way to advance the plot is to get her to put her clothes back on? Maybe it was just a glitch...

[BattleCookiee]

KOTOR:2 was improved in the following areas:

 

Skills more useful

Because it is a sequel, problems of I get fixed. But why do people usually say Sequals are worse, eh?

Non-Jedi characters more useful

By making them Jedi? Disagree

Workbench

Made pointless by difficulty and the enormous amount of dropped items

T3 much better character overall

First agree

Deeper storyline

Well, first part yes. Ending no. Overall KotOR 1 has a typical SW-story, while KotOR 2 has not. And since SW is all black-white...

Better dialogue

Disagreed

More force powers

Ofcourse, it's a sequal. Added stuff and such

Influence system

Could be a plus if it was working correct, unlike it does now

Better mini-games

Disagreed. They even made Swoopracing MORE annoying (how is that possible you wonder)

Better dark side path

Same

On the whole larger areas.  KOTOR:1 had one really big planet and several small ones

Agreed

 

Now add those up and tell me which is the better game overall?

KotOR 1

 

You're not holding the games to the same standard.  You can't compare them unless you can make some effort at being objective.

 

Yes. He does. You don't...

Problem is that most of these "upgrades" came because they were the bad parts of I.

And even when most sequels fix these things; why is it the original is usually claimed better. An example;

GTA 3 and SA:

SA has better graphics, larger playground, no loading, longer story, better main character, an huge addition of mini-games etc.

What is the better game? GTA 3...

 

The KOTOR:1 story didn't have much too it.  The KOTOR:2 storyline has inspired speculation and debate.  Clearly the story was deeper.

 

Well, KOTOR1's was a typical SW-Story, like I said before. So ofcourse it isn't going to be THAT deep. KotOR2 steps away from that, so ofcourse it can go deeper then.

And about the speculation, debate: This is more a fact of rushing, unfinished endings, and missing plot-lines than a deep story...

 

KOTOR:1 had some of the cheesiest, ridiculous dialogue.  Even on places like Peragus, I enjoyed watching the holo-vids and seeing how things played out, because each NPC felt like a real person.  The dialogue was MUCH better in KOTOR:2.

 

That is very personal. Especially with the NPC's dialogue is worse. Okay, more mature and dark and such, but alot worse...

 

In a cliffhanger there is nothing to show either way.  And whie people are want to rip on KOTOR:2's ending all day long, we forget that KOTOR:1's ending wasn't all that great.  There wasn't much of anything to it.  It was handled better than KOTOR:2's ending, but if Obsidian didn't rush the game, I'd argue KOTOR:2's ending would be better.

 

Well, let's take Empires Strike Back. It had a cliffhanger, and loads to show. Why can't that be done in a computergame?

And Kotor1's not that great? It dealt with all your teammates and the galaxies fate. And see, in KotOR2 the galaxy is threatnened. But is it solved? What is the threat? What have we done to it?

[cyn_dolores]

" I didn't like Visas. I wasn't mean to her, but I told her I didn't like her like that, and I truly didn't. "

 

There's no real romance with Visas...am I right?

[Dark Moth]

^^ Correct, but the 'romance' with Visas is actually more than you get from Handmaiden. With Visas, you get an actual declaration of love from her, handmaiden just gave you that "I'll fight by your side" speech. But the only other thing you get with Visas is the 'force sex' scene, which is basically the two of you meditating together. I was pretty disappointed because I actually thought you'd get a kiss scene with Visas, and the 'force sex' was a very weak replacement.

 

And I don't think you can blame all the game's problems on time. Even with more time, we'd still have gotten the lame story, recycled environments, bad music, and an influence system that's half-baked.

 

I don't agree with the topic starter that K2 was superior in every way. K1 I thought was better with:

1. Story

2. Ending

3. Characters (and the party members I thought were a lot more likeable)

4. Environments

5. Loading screens (as a whole they all seemed shorter, and that's not because the bar was shorter)

6. Dialogue

7. Music

8. Romance

9. Difficulty

10. Starting environment (Taris was way better, IMO. Peragus was boring as hell)

 

K2 improved on:

1. skills

2. unique feats/powers for party members

3. influence (only certain things, like alignment and turning into Jedi, but it was flawed in certain aspects)

4. Force powers/feats

5. Prestige classes

6. T3

 

K2 left a bunch of things unimproved, like graphics, loading screens, glitches (actually it might be worse), ranged combat, etc. One thing I also disliked was the Jedi/Sith classes they chose for your party members. Example: Bao-Dur. He was a tech specialist, and was loaded with skill points, but they chose a Jedi Guardian for him, the one with the LEAST amount of skills. I had to raise his intelligence again just to get the right amount of points to keep all his skills up. They should have went with a Sentinal.

 

So, no. But I agree with you on the ending and romances: they were horrible. We got some nice new stuff, but overall it didn't feel like much of an improvement.

[GhostofAnakin]

K2 left a bunch of things unimproved, like graphics, loading screens, glitches (actually it might be worse), ranged combat, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, I am in the process of replaying KOTOR I for the first time in a while and I was actually going to comment on here how much smoother the graphics actually look in K2. The character models (atleast characters like Kreia, Atton and Handmaiden) look more detailed than Carth, Bastila, etc. And those Jedi robes.....ick! I forgot just how terrible they looked in K1.

 

As for story, well that's subjective, but I am finding that the dialogue in K1 seems dumbed down compared to how I felt it came across in K2. Keep in mind this is a comparison that's relatively fresh in my mind, since I finished a K2 play through last weekend, and am currently playing K1 again.

 

Oh, and K2's interface is much improved upon.

[SteveThaiBinh]

I just finished "The Sith Lords" for the Xbox earlier this evening, and I feel terrible!

It's quite a common reaction. It's precisely because the rest of the game is so good that you feel so bad when the ending flops. If the whole game had been mediocre, I'd just have stuck it up on the shelf and moved on to something else.

 

The feeling of disappointment lessens when you start playing again, because you're immersed in the strong portion of the game and finding new things you missed the first time.

...the story, dialogue, and general maturity of the narrative was improved.  This is a game which I've taken very seriously, and that is why the issue I have has irked me immensely.

I agree, though obviously Obsidian were never going to satisfy everyone, nor should they try.

(the most glaring of which is the multitude of alternate responses you give during dialogue which do exactly the same thing as another response).

This annoys me, too, though it has its defenders. In the case of Atris it makes sense, because she's so full of herself you could probably start juggling grenades and she wouldn't notice. Sometimes it allows you to express yourself in a different way, enhancing roleplaying opportunities, but more often it's just changing the words to create an illusion of choice that doesn't really exist.

So the reason Brianna was giving me the cold shoulder was simple.

 

I didn't ask her to put her clothes back on.

 

...the designers made this THE ONLY trigger to advance the Handmaiden's plot along.  THE ONLY TRIGGER.

I don't think so - it's more likely to be lack of influence, as others have said above. First time through it's quite easy to lose influence a couple of times and not think much of it, especially when Visas joins.

After our words at Telos, after Atris, she talked about being a disciple and following me and all this stuff that seemed to me to finally be moving us along to some sort of trust, some channel of communication.  But you what happened instead?  On Citadel Station, she reverted to responding to me with the same tired (and now irrelevant) dialogue she did earlier in the game.

Rushed ending. Have you read the cut content threads or the information about the Restoration Project? There are scenes with Handmaiden on Malachor which should get restored.

 

It's a major design flaw for all the characters that the act of Jedification is essentially the end of their development in the game, rather than a mid-way point before the student-teacher phase begins. It is very strange that Obsidian can work so hard to create characters that you care about and yet not see in advance that this would be a common reaction. I'm less inclined to attribute this to haste - more of a genuine mistake.

Obsidian: I loved your game, you did a GREAT job with it.  I've been meaning throughout my play to congratulate you.  This one thing slipped through and took me down, I know, but there was so much to this game, and you did so much right.

I think Obsidian appreciate honest and detailed feedback like this, though in public they can't do more than defend their product. There is a magazine article floating around the forums in which they discuss the strengths and weaknesses of the game, but they don't exactly focus on the storytelling weaknesses. It might be that it's a little too close to home for them to open up about it - stories are supposed to be their great strength, after all.

[Cathryn]

Yikes, that sounds frustrating. There's a lot of story there and it's easy to miss a piece even when you're looking for it. It's bad for someone who has (unlike me) something better to do than replay and try random stuff out - unless you're sitting there with a step-by-step influence guide, and that's not much fun. Turning Mira into a Jedi is not quite as random as what you're describing, but still hard for some people to figure out. I don't think it's intended to be difficult because it's so damn easy with others. Either way, it's critical to the storyline and influence is tricky enough as is.

 

I thought the dialogue in K2 was more interesting (though a lot of times in the 'what the hell, how is that supposed to happen' way) but K1 was so much funnier and there's a lot of merit to that

[germi91]

KOTOR:2 was improved in the following areas:

 

Skills more useful

Non-Jedi characters more useful

Workbench

T3 much better character overall

Deeper storyline

Better dialogue

More force powers

Influence system

Better mini-games

Better dark side path

On the whole larger areas.  KOTOR:1 had one really big planet and several small ones.

 

KOTOR:1 has the following advantage:

Better ending

 

Now add those up and tell me which is the better game overall?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, i like Kotor I generally. Here's why:

 

-Kotor I offers a unique and more 'Star Wars' based story. Kotor II had too many elements which made it look like real life.

 

-Somehow, it felt like Kotor II was missing... action. I don't mean killing Sith and soldiers. I mean, the fact that it doesn't feel like there is an enemy. I know they're supposed to be hidden and all, but it just didn't feel like the Sith weren't really a problem. Like there was no danger at all.

 

-Kotor II had a more complicated story which is easily misunderstood. Even if you play 10 times over, you'll still be missing much of the story and will stil lbe confused with many aspects of it.

 

-I really don't like the Influence system. It is impossible to get all the influence with all the characters, making you have to repeat the whole game just to listen to Mandalores' stories or to get GOTO to tell you everything he knows.

 

-The game can be sometimes too easy or too hard, making it unpredictable.

 

However, i have to admit that many things were improved in Kotor II as well. For example, the clothes, force powers, lightsaber forms, etc. I also like the Random loot generator. I also like the new feats and that you get to have a prestige class and you can level up to 40 (I really love Force Crush).

 

This is just my opinion. I'm not trying to say this game sucks (Otherwise i wouldn't be posting here). I'm just saying that i was disappointed with it. It could've been a lot better. Still, it's a good game which i enjoyed.

[Daroowise]

Personally I enjoyed the game play although I didn't find it too much of a stretch from the original. Sure, there were additional feats, force powers, the graphics I though were somewhat improved and the robes didn't look like wrapped skirts.

 

Actually, the only problem I had was the immersion factor. Every time I felt like I was getting into the game there seemed to be something missing, which seems to be a commonality. The ending just fell flat and there were a lot of unanswered questions. Especially considering the whole posse of saber toting lightsiders I had with me going into the final act, darksiders the second time around, the events surrounding both female and male PCs in regards to romantic interests, etc.

 

Though with a save game editor and jacking everyone's influence to max I was able to pick up more of the swiss-holed storyline, giving me some measure of satisfaction, at least, in regards to HK, G0T0 and canderous (I'm always amazed at how many ppl didn't recognize him from just by the voice... not to mention that he talks about Clan Ordo).

 

Personally, I'm anxiously awaiting the fruition of Team Gizka and the restoration project's efforts as I think that will finally tie the game into something more along the lines of what was intended as a final product than the plasma-torched job that became what was released.

 

Not to say that it wasn't a game on par with the plethora of other games out at this time, it just didn't come through as well as it could have, imho. Although, the release of badly done/incomplete/rushed games is something I think the industry should be held accountable for... but hey, they've got an "RPG of the year" title they can tout now so who am I to expect such?