Who was the better Sith Lord?

[Jedi Master D Murda]

Yes and again that is not fact (since we learn from a NPC), KotOR had no intention of giving Revan such motivation in the first place.

 

The "true Sith" is also a bunch of crap, the Sith race is dead from over 1000 years (even TSL loading screens agree with that) and Revan was as Sith as anyone can be after the Great Hyperspace War.

 

Revan "saving the Republic" makes as much sense as Palpatine doing what he did to "save the galaxy" from the Vorg.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You are absolutely right. K1 probably had no intention of Revan being a Sith for the "greater good" but then we have K2 and it tells us of Revan's "real motives" in the Mandalorian Wars and thats what we have to go by.

 

I also think the "True Sith" is a bunch of crap and I have tried to figure out what would be a "True Sith" in this time. Only thing I can come up with is that those who were not taught the ways of the Jedi and are not fallen Jedi are "true sith".

[Drakron]

You are absolutely right. K1 probably had no intention of Revan being a Sith for the "greater good" but then we have K2 and it tells us of Revan's "real motives" in the Mandalorian Wars and thats what we have to go by.

 

We have a NPC saying Revan motivations, not Revan that could remenber he left the gas on and gone back to turn it off.

 

TSL is downright bend into fan service ...

 

I also think the "True Sith" is a bunch of crap and I have tried to figure out what would be a "True Sith" in this time. Only thing I can come up with is that those who were not taught the ways of the Jedi and are not fallen Jedi are "true sith".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What I understand is the "true" means "real", the so called Sith we fight in the game are not really Sith, they just use some Sith knowledge and technics but that alone does not makes the Sith.

 

Even if I fear we end up with some lame alien race Sith there are ways that could be done.

 

Freedom Nadd managed to rule a planet and he was a Sith, its possible to make Sith rule planets that are not part of the Republic, either openly or behind the curtain.

 

Still I think when developers have the choice of the hard road only a few can understand and the easy road lame storylines and fan service they will go the easy road ...

[Jedi Master D Murda]

What I understand is the "true" means "real", the so called Sith we fight in the game are not really Sith, they just use some Sith knowledge and technics but that alone does not makes the Sith.

 

Even if I fear we end up with some lame alien race Sith there are ways that could be done.

 

Freedom Nadd managed to rule a planet and he was a Sith, its possible to make Sith rule planets that are not part of the Republic, either openly or behind the curtain.

 

Still I think when developers have the choice of the hard road only a few can understand and the easy road lame storylines and fan service they will go the easy road ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If the Sith we fight in the game are not truly Sith then neither can Freedon Nadd because he was a fallen Jedi.

[Darth Flatus]

The true sith doesnt have to be an alien race only. I think it is rather those who know only the teachings of the sith and arent fallen jedi.

 

IMO if you are force sensitive and all you have ever known are the teachings of the sith then you are sith.

[Grant Dempsey]

I believe that was the problem with Darth Revan, he seemed so confident that he could keep Malak under his thumb for as long as he needed. Like Malak said, he acted quicker than Revan had realized.

 

And yes I was specifically referring to the fact that when the apprentice learns that his power has grown farther than that of his master that he must kill his master.

 

The problem I am having is Revan teaching all of his underlings, especially Malak, the ways of the Sith while trying to save the Republic knowing that his apprentice would turn on him. Why not tell Malak "We have to fall to the DS to save the Republic, so that if you turn on me you can continue my war against the Republic to save it."

 

Overconfident indeed, that arrogant son of a...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, really, I think it could still be argued to some extent that Revan's intention wasn't to save the Galactic Republic specifically, but instead just to save the galaxy. He very well could have been planning to conquer the galaxy and forge some sort of empire, if he believed it would've made for a stronger, more durable organization.

 

After all, while Revan may have been working for what he saw as the greater good (and while his fall to the Dark Side of the Force may have been more of a sacrifice with an ulterior motive than simply a fall), he wasn't exactly above cruelty and slaughter if he saw it as necessary. Plus, regardless of how he "fell" to the Dark Side of the Force, he still seemed corrupted by it thereafter nonetheless (hence why it was a sacrifice since it took something from him), even if he was strong-willed enough to prevent himself from falling so far that he may have forgotten his actual goals in favor of seeking power like any ol' Dark Lord of the Sith.

 

Then again, he could've indeed been trying to use the Jedi Civil War to strengthen the Galactic Republic itself ("through conflict" as Kreia said) without intending to replace it with any sort of empire.

 

Heck, to an extent, maybe Revan even saw the Jedi Civil War as a win-win situation for his purposes; he may have intended it as a test of strength in itself, his having two intentions (alternative to one another) with it instead of just one: Replacing or reforging the Galactic Republic if it ultimately lost the Jedi Civil War, or ending up strengthening the Galactic Republic and its defenses by providing it with conflict if it ultimately won the Jedi Civil War.

 

Ah, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's just that Revan's ultimate goal wasn't made particularly clear beyond the fact that his basic intent was to strengthen the galaxy one way or another in order to best "prepare" it for defending itself against the "true" Sith Empire should it ever need to.

 

By the way, Drakron, it was pretty clear that Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords was trying to imply that there was more to Revan's fall to the Dark Side of the Force (and his reasons for starting the Jedi Civil War) than simply because he became evil. Yes, I would say it wasn't the original intention; in Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, I'll admit Revan seemed to be intended as pretty much just a Jedi Knight who fell to the Dark Side of the Force without any ulterior motive beyond simply seeking power and whatnot. The sequel simply added to Revan's story with this new information, because there was still room to plausibly introduce it. If you feel it was simply "fan service" or whatever, feel free to disregard what was said and implied about his character for yourself, but don't try to argue that it wasn't the writers' intention unless you have more reason for saying so beyond just, "It was fan service," and, "The original didn't say anything about it, so it's not true at all."

[Sumo Joe]

Darth Malak. He wasn't too bright, but he had some power. And he destroyed a few worlds. And he figured out how to unlock even more power of the Star Forge than Revan had.

[Grazza]

Sumo Joe, why exactly are you resurrecting old polls? You're bringing back polls that haven't been posted on for 8 months or so!

 

However, to answer the question, Darth Traya.

[Knights&Darths]

Kreia was no sith lord, but like Revan, when she took up that role it did fit damn good. Malak was a sith lord but he was never a match for both of them and he died without a bit of honor or dignity, he was just an ignorant fool in red spandex.

I don't know why people think Kreia is Kae. I just don't see the connection

same frustration, opposite reason Edited December 15, 2005 by jinger

[Dark Moth]

What? You mean you don't think Kreia is Kae, or do?

 

Anyway, though Kreia was smarter, I'd have to say Malak. Kreia was a failure at everything she did. She failed as LS and DS, she failed training Revan, Sion, and Nihilus, and depending on what you did in K2, she failed at training the exile. She couldn't do anything on her own, either. She needed the exile to do all her dirty work. Heck, she couldn't even stand up to Nihilus. She was incredibly weak (story-wise) until the end, in which she was stronger than she really should have been. And finally, she failed at killing the force. I know it's cookie-cutter, but Malak's motives in K1 were a whole lot better and realistic than Kreia's motives in K2. The only thing Kreia had going for herself was her manipulation and intelligence, though I do think she was more evil than Malak was.

[foxdez]

What?  You mean you don't think Kreia is Kae, or do? 

 

Anyway, though Kreia was smarter, I'd have to say Malak.  Kreia was a failure at everything she did.  She failed as LS and DS, she failed training Revan, Sion, and Nihilus, and depending on what you did in K2, she failed at training the exile.  She couldn't do anything on her own, either.  She needed the exile to do all her dirty work.  Heck, she couldn't even stand up to Nihilus.  She was incredibly weak (story-wise) until the end, in which she was stronger than she really should have been.  And finally, she failed at killing the force.    I know it's cookie-cutter, but Malak's motives in K1 were a whole lot better and realistic than Kreia's motives in K2.  The only thing Kreia had going for herself was her manipulation and intelligence, though I do think she was more evil than Malak was. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Needless to say but Malak wasn't that successful either.

[Kinokono]

Darth Traya(Kreia) was the best, she was wise and had an unconventional approach to things, unlike most sith lords, she respected wisdom and tact, while malak just had some red pajamas and a messed up face.

[darth jonarn]

To put it simply, she was wanting the death of the force. Kreia already mentioned how the force works through those who aren't force sensitive, which meant simply that she wished for the death of life. Too bad Exile could live without the force.

[Naruto]

This is a no brainer. Kreya was a better sith lord. Remember how she was orchestrating more death than Malak so that she could kill the force. She manipulated jedi just like Emperor Palpatine. Not only that, but Malak was only powerful because of Kreya. She taught Revan and he taught Malak.

[Spook]

Malak was to stupid to be a good Sith lord. He was just unbridled masslaughter to happen. No serious planning in that one.

 

Kreia on the other hand was deviously evil. Though she did lose a lot of points for whimping out at the end. But with no serious competition she won.

[Dyan]

Kreia is HK47

Malak is HK50

 

Finesse and art vs. Wanton slaughter

[Daaave]

Darth Traya, simple question really.

[SSgtSniper]

Character-development wise, I'll give Kriea the nod. I do have to say though that I think that comes from her origins in the "Grey" philosophy. Light siders gone dark, (Anakin style) seems to be too much into hack-and-slash. However Grey Jedi that fall "off the wagon" seem to be much more deliberate and manipulative in their actions.

[Guest The Architect]

While Malak just had some red pajamas and a messed up face.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LOL! That was hilarious.

[Guest The Architect]

This really all depends on what you mean by who was the better Sith Lord. In terms of power, I'd say Malak (Everyone has there own opinions, reasons, interpretations and point of view and I honestly beleive that Malak was more powerful). You don't have to agree with me on that people because that is just my opinion.

 

In terms of intelligence/wisdom I'd say Kreia. Her wisdom made her powerful. She was a cunning puppet-master so to speak and a master of manipulation. Malak was more action-based, more 'efficent and brutal' as HK-47 said. And last of all, who was the more successful Sith Lord? The answer there is neither of them. This is because they both had long-term goals and never succeeded, they died, didn't they? Kreia never achieved causing an echo in the force or destroying it and Malak never achieved winning the Jedi Civil War and crushing the Old Republic. Of course, the Sith win the Jedi Civil War if you set Revan as DS but that was Revan's success not Malak's. He/She lived, Malak didn't.

Edited January 8, 2006 by The Architect

[Gorth]

To put it simply, she was wanting the death of the force. Kreia already mentioned how the force works through those who aren't force sensitive, which meant simply that she wished for the death of life. Too bad Exile could live without the force.

I wonder why people keep saying that :-"

 

Kreia did *not* want the death of the force, as she knew all (ok, most) life in the universe was connected to it. Thats why Nihilus had to be destroyed (otherwise, Nihilus would have killed the force and the universe). Kreia wanted to free the galaxy from what she considered the control (manipulative nature) of the force and have people live without it like the Exile used to...

 

She might have had all the traits of a kickass Sith Lord (Lady?) but her motives were not as clearcut selfish.

[Daaave]

malak just had some red pajamas and a messed up face.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

It's funny cause it's true.

 

[GhostofAnakin]

Kreia by far. She was a manipulator and diabolical. Malak was just a hired thug.

 

Kreia=Palpatine

Malak=Vader

 

Palpatine was the better Sith Lord because he was about manipulation. Vader was just his iron fist.

[Darth Thingy]

OK. So Malak correctly identified Bastila's Battle Meditation as a possible asset and turned her to the Dark Side. But come on! ANY IDIOT COULD FIGURE THAT OUT!!!

 

Now, let's see what else Malak did:

 

- He destroyed Telos in a way that rendered its atmosphere acidic and inhospitable. Telos was one of the great industrial and technological centres of the galaxy and would have contributed greatly to the Sith economy. Pointless waste of resources.

 

- He obliterated Taris, a planet under HIS control, with taxes, industries, and an economy fuelling HIS empire. Why? It was the chance that ONE Jedi could escape his blockade. And she escaped anyway. Not to mention the fact that he had many of HIS OWN troops still on the surface when he fired upon it. Another pointless waste of resources there.

 

- He obliterated Dantooine to destroy a backwater Jedi academy. More resources he could have used gone to waste.

 

- He grew hopelessly dependent on the Star Forge and used it as a crutch when Revan came back to end his reign. And even that didn't help him in the end. At least Revan understood that even the Star Forge had its limits, hence leaving the infrastructure of the Republic mostly intact during his conquests so as to be able to use it himself later on.

 

- And finally, he took as his apprentice a childish psychopath who makes a hobby of hurling HIS OWN underlings into HIS OWN computer terminals on HIS OWN ships.

 

What a buffoon!

 

Traya may not have been a 'mainstream' Sith, but she was intelligent, cunning, manipulative, resourceful and deviously subtle; and obviously a heavy influence on Revan and on Revan's methods.

 

So in my opinion, Darth Traya > Darth Malak

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

While Malak was quite crude and not very devious and full of cunning to be the archetype sith lord his ruthlesness compensated greatly for what he lacked IMO.

Kreia was far more cunning but not very devout to the Sith teachings.

So Malak is a better Sith lord.

[Darth Blivion]

according to the game the answer is malak. bastila says the remaining sith are too weak to use the star forge, kriea and her reject students included. i think she also claims to have taught revan too but then again she claims to be the exile's master. bastilla says the remaining sith fight each other for power, sounds like a good description of the sith lords you meet in this game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And you think Nihilus, Sion and Traya were among these Sith she was talking about? The TSL Sith Lords didn't care for petty claims of dominion and they certainly didn't care for the Star Forge. Bastila doesn't know any of the three great Sith Lords, so she would only be refering to the Korriban sith - whom Kreia also mentions.

 

They followed the true path of the Sith, by pursuing power - fighting over Malak's left overs didn't concern them at all.

[KoToR3:hopefull]

Kreia/Treia was the better sith lord because she was just like the sith lord in the star wars movies, manipulative, cunning etc. their goals were different but she was still a better sith lord.

 

Mind you i dont really think she was an actual sith lord at all, she did her own thing according to her own philosophy and as such casnt really be classified as either sith or fedi. She dressed like a sith but she wasnt as crude as the sith.