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Did You Agree With The Influence On The Crew?


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"Well, what sticks in my mind are all the NPC quest logs "Perhaps you should talk more about this to X when you have levelled up""

 

Eh. That never happened in KOTOR. At least i surely don't remember it; and that's soemthing so glaring it be hard to miss. I do know that soem things were depenent on level; but not much.

 

That was the NWN OC which I agree was/is a bad design decision. heck, BIo agrees that it was not the ideal way to do things - hence how that was destroyed for both SOU and HOTU..

 

Yes it does you get a log for each companion which as much as says talk to them some more when you level up. Glaring and hard to miss or not, you missed it. It's easy to check since it happens as soon as you have your first conversation with Carth on Taris.

 

Background in KOTOR is level based and event based. Obviously they dont let on that you are Revan until the "grand suprise". If you get to the level cap early then no one will talk to you anymore until you are Revan again.

 

KOTOR II is far more subtle , you need to pay attention to events and then talk to a companion. Then something you say to them will have an effect on someone else.

Like when you gain too much influence with both Visas and Handmaiden they will fight.

Then having witnessed the fight that opens up the chance to discuss love with HK 47.

 

Spend a lot of time with Atton and Atton will ask Bao Dur if he has a shot with you (very much like the conversation Han Solo and Luke have).

 

Unless you get those events you will never see those conversation options.

I have to agree with Volourn.  Bioware is pretty much dead now.  Deals like this kills development studios.

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Yes it does you get a log for each companion which as much as says talk to them some more when you level up. Glaring and hard to miss or not, you missed it. It's easy to check since it happens as soon as you have your first conversation with Carth on Taris.

 

Well, if they're going to use that mechanic, I don't have any problem with it showing it in the quest log. Gameplay mechanics should be transparent. Besides, going up in levels is the only way to track time in KotOR, since there's no clock.

 

Unless you get those events you will never see those conversation options.

 

My problem with the event-based system is that I tend to swap party members around a lot. I've missed a lot of planetside events through having the "wrong" companions around for the critical sequence. This makes me really feel like I'll need to do a full-on metagaming run through the game, which probably isn't the designers' intent.

 

Edit: Other than that, the implementation seems alright so far. Though when I've brought Visas around to the LS, I should at least be able to protest when Kreia or Handmaiden call her a Dark Jedi.

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The influence system was complex, confusing and extremely engaging. I liked the way you that developing relationships with certain characters would upset other characters. The first time I played, one of the characters just stopped speaking to me because another character was meddling. At the time, I didn't understand why it had happened, and was engrossed with what it might mean. After playing the game a few times, I understand the mechanics of the system better, but that first time was really great.

 

Of course, there are downsides to influence too. By having so much freedom to develop relationships, you make it difficult to keep the dialogue consistent. The character who refused to speak to me normally would happily chip in during plot-related conversations, without a hint of bitterness, giving a rather unrealistic effect. And so many possible combinations of people who like/dislike you make it very challenging to resolve each character's journey at the end of the game - too challenging as it turned out!

"An electric puddle is not what I need right now." (Nina Kalenkov)

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"Possibly, but it also helped them control the pacing a bit more. I found the influence system, though more organic perhaps, very hit and miss as far as allowing for interaction with NPCs. I would hit large portions of the game where I would not be able to interact with the NPCs any longer at all, either because I had already maxed out their influence and stories very quickly ( Disciple) or the evnt that I needed to trigger more dialog wa snot hit (Atton)."

 

Possible spoiler: I also found the infulence system to be "hit or miss" or "all or nothing" kind of thing.

 

 

I completed Nar Shaddarr as my first planet, I go out and do a bunch of quests and get the whole Slavers are going to be waiting for me, maybe I should head back to the Hawk quest. Anyways I finish up a couple more things on the planet and head back to the hawk. Upon arriving I end up fighting slavers, fighting visas, get message from visquis, meeting hanharr/mira, meeting visquis, meeting goto, goto yacht, seeing a bunch of party members fight in cutscenes, and then finally seeing the Handmaiden blow up because I apparently trust Visas more then her, even though I've hardly even talked to Visas.

 

So basically after like an hour, 90% of which was cut scenes, and when I do get back into the gameplay I find that one of the characters that I'm supposed to be able to gain influence with and turn jedi won't talk to me now except to say that we having nothing more to discuss. And this is my first planet.

.

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I don't know...I get the feeling that while it was supposed to be the PC influencing the party members, it really ended up being the party members influenced the PCs actions.

 

I should be able to get Mandalore's story because he likes me enough, NOT depending on whether I do or say DS things. As it is, I have to be essentially DS to get his story...which I'm not (when I'm playing LS).

 

A true "influence system" would have the PC changing Mandalore to the LS, and all of his info/conversation options reflecting that.

 

I shouldn't have to have my LS master go kill innocents in order to get a party member to like her more. That's forcing my PC to do something out of character. Hunh...maybe I'm the only one who appreciates role-playing anymore?

 

I wish I could explain this better, but it's late and I'm working on my fourth glass of wine...

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Yes, you are absolutely right. I had the feeling that, even if I was the leader, everybody in the crew was just judging me. The main example of this is obviously Kreia. I had to lose my +3 Wis bonus (acquired by being a LS Master) to know something more about the story! I think influence system is good, but not when you are trying to discover something _very_ plot-related. For one reason or another, when I met Darth Nihilus I did know quite nothing about him... how's that possible?

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I would prefer a obvious hint, like telling me outright that the npc isn't talking to me because i am flirting with the handmaiden. I think that all the npcs should have a "I just want to chat" option, so u can talk romance or abt main or side quest events that u have done. Word of events will get around in a small group even if they weren't there at the time the event happened, They will have an opion on what u did and u should be able to influence them on it also.

maybe romances should be listed as bonus quests so u can keep track on how u are doing. everything seems to be done thru cut scenes. Like atton got jellous of the discliple joining the party and said we were full, but no dialoge options appeared to talk abt it.

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A true "influence system" would have the PC changing Mandalore to the LS, and all of his info/conversation options reflecting that. 

 

Well, you can shift some of the companions' alignment. Visas Marr, for instance. You don't have to do anything DS to flip her completely.

 

I shouldn't have to have my LS master go kill innocents in order to get a party member to like her more.  That's forcing my PC to do something out of character.  Hunh...maybe I'm the only one who appreciates role-playing anymore?

 

If it's out of character, then stop trying to influence the hardcore dark siders

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The system with influence was a good idea that did not work as well as it could have.

 

Since NPC did not change what inflenced them and conversation lines when they changed DS/LS it felt way to artifical. As it was I would have been just as happy with the system in KotOR1.

 

Just wish they had been given more time to finish this game. :lol:

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I have not beaten the game yet, but I am noticing how difficult it is to influence party members when they are of opposite alignment. However, it also makes sense this way because it would be out of character for them to be influenced by any actions unbefitting of their temperament. Some actions that characters deem honorable, wise and respectable, are inherintly evil in nature. Just like in real life, it's difficult to bond with others if you don't share the similar interests, beliefs and ideals.

 

If someone is a ruthless murderer by nature, then there is not much that can be done to influence him, other than becoming a ruthless murderer yourself.

 

From that perspective, the influence system of KOTOR2 suceeds to a high degree.

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The influence system is a good idea, just executed poorly.

 

I thought you would influence the partymembers through your actions, but instead how much they like you defines how much they are pulled towards your alignment. There is a great difference here.

 

Handmaiden ended up almost totally Dark Side for me, even though she never exhibited all that great emotion or temper while she travelled with me. If she just liked you, she turned even paler and started showing a bit of vein, but she never DID anything that would have led her to the Dark Side or shown that she was there.

 

Edit: Oh, and the utter LACK of the dialog options changing with the NPCs pretty much tries to destroy any worth of getting closer to them and believability. Visas especially is grievous in this regard, having the same conversation options from the moment you meet her till the universe itself dies.

 

But, I guess they at least ARE nicer options than 'wanna play Pazaak?'...

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The influence system was a good idea, however it's a bit confusing to know exactly how to influence them as you don't exactly know which acts affect influence and which don't. Plus there isn't any indication how much influence you have over the current character and I have still yet to see the influence affecting performance of members in the party, it was said that if you lost enough influence, the party member would leave forever, hasn't happened to me yet though.

 

The influence was a bit more to my liking than level up and get more info from K1, however I really miss the character subquests from K1, that helped bring out more about the characters also because their subquests were tied to their backgrounds.

 

I think a mixtue of both systems would have been really good. I like the influence idea, though maybe I would have preferred more of a trust system than influence, instead of getting others to do my bidding as if my puppets they agree more with my pov and what I do because they trust me more. Particularly resolving or embarking on their sidequests would affect this trust. I'd like to see something like that.

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[if it's out of character, then stop trying to influence the hardcore dark siders

 

Sorry, that's not really what my beef is with it. I'm not a good communicator when buzzed. :rolleyes:

 

What I meant was for those parts of the story that were vital to the main plot, like what Farfa said. You have to give up LS mastery and do some DS things to get some important info from Kreia (as an example). THAT's where I think the system is poorly implemented.

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yeah the influence system is very cool and better than what bioware did imo

 

I agree. In K1, if you killed someone, Bastila said "Don't do it," but you still don't affect her personality. The same applies with some of your other characters. In K1, I like the feeling of bending your party member's will and converting them into a Jedi or a Sith.

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I still instinctivly talked to everyone after I rose a level! ^_^

 

But I would like a combination, since some of the characters have some very interesting information (and very plot related) and I didn't use of all them so I missed out on a bit .. and I don't wont to force myself to use them simply for influence ..

 

of course the Jedi option and 'dirty secrets' should really depend on influence .. but it kinda get's boring to only see "never mind" in Bao-dur's dialouge option, which made me use him even less, thus gaining even less influence .. I haven't heard his story yet, or made him a Jedi in any playthrough.. since I find him rather useless and dull..

 

so release a little information pr level, a line or two .. or let me be able to persuade them! (requiring less influence for instance) .. or mind-read them as a Sith Lord ..

Fortune favors the bald.

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I love the IDEA, but I thought the implementation was extremely weak. All the influence system did was essentially get more info out of your characters. Nothing really happened, the stories didn't evolve differently. The only things that changed were the little social "extras".

 

It would have been nice if plots were to form from those influences. Maybe next time.

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