Gamespot Rumor: Troika shutting its doors

[NeverwinterKnight]

@Servant:  No, I'm sorry, sweetie... I'm serious when I say I don't give out my pen name.  I keep my two lives totally separate.

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shes obviously stephen king. "

[213374U]

overcharged for their music.

 

How do you put a price on someone else creative work? Do you know how much work went into writing it, playing it, getting it published?

Music is overpriced. Not because it isn't worth what you pay for it, but because publishers overprice it to increase their revenues as much as they want. If a CD costs say, $20, you can be sure that the original author doesn't get more than $6 for each sold copy. Is it fair that the person who puts in the so vaunted 'creative work' only gets 25-35% of the money it costs?

 

And don't forget that a great deal of downloaded music wouldn't be purchased anyway. People may download an album because "it's nice", but if they couldn't d/l it, they would just not get it. So that part of the filesharing isn't damaging the music industry, because they're assuming it's affecting a market which is actually inexistent.

 

If the music industry goes to hell, I'm not going to drop a tear. I'll be sorry for the people who work in it, but not for the musicians or publisher owners. They had it coming.

[Gorth]

I keep my two lives totally separate.

I'm pretty sure there is a proper medical term for that...

[Volourn]

"overcharged for their music."

 

If you think they overcharge; the solution is not to aprtake in it at all. Stealing is not the answer.

 

This is what I have done with WOTC's $60 books - I don't buy them, and if I do it's one a year now. I've bpught no D&d books in the past year, and only 1 in the last 2.

 

Stealing is wrong. You do not have a right to someone else's work. And, here I was thinking I was arrogant.

 

R00fles!

[Laozi]

Well the biggest problem with the music industry is that it truely is a vampiric industry. Musicians have to deal with a very stacked deck as far as things go. Its not like if Julia Roberts makes a movie and it "tanks" that she has to pay back the Paramount for there loss. But if a band makes an album thats not sucessfull then they either have to make an album that can get alot of airtime or break up. This is not the fans fault, and none of the burden should be put on them in this regard. Also its not like record sells are the only avenue for a band to make money, theres this thing called touring, and if you get a devoted enough fan base then you can easily make a living as an artist. Wilco and Fugazi are excellent examples of bands that have had sucess without be drwan in to the idea that you must "sellout" to make a living in music. The way things currently are these bands are crushed under the weight of the media blitz that major label bands unleash on the market.

 

I honostly hope that the recording industry falls on it ear, is forced to find other ways to make money. The industry won't collapse, just look at small labels, but the way it is now it is n despeerate need to have something "trim the fat".

[roshan]

Piracy and filesharing are not stealing. To say such is to make ridiculous claims.

[Darque]

Piracy and filesharing are not stealing. To say such is to make ridiculous claims.

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pi

[jaguars4ever]

Yeah, rosh. Although 'filesharing' may not necessarliy be stealing (depending on the nature of any copyrights involved), 'piracy' is by defintion an act of theft.

[Gorth]

Piracy and filesharing are not stealing. To say such is to make ridiculous claims.

Talk about bull ****

 

Stealing and using other peoples work, no matter the medium is still theft. By your same logic, it's perfectly fine to do shoplifting ? The circumstances are the same, the store has a lot of stuff on their shelves, why not help yourself to a few handfuls of it... I mean, as long as you don't get caught it's perfectly morally justifiable, right ?

[Oerwinde]

Downloading music is legal in canada

 

Which is good because downloading MP3s has lead to most of my music purchases.

 

I'd say 75% of my purchases are because of MP3s I've downloaded. 25% is from band loyalty.

[Laozi]

Piracy and filesharing are not stealing. To say such is to make ridiculous claims.

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Talk about bull ****

 

Stealing and using other peoples work, no matter the medium is still theft. By your same logic, it's perfectly fine to do shoplifting ? The circumstances are the same, the store has a lot of stuff on their shelves, why not help yourself to a few handfuls of it... I mean, as long as you don't get caught it's perfectly morally justifiable, right ?

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Morality can't be an issue in this, especially since the same people who own majority shares of Sony/Epic are also the same people who own majority shares in companies that produce landmines. Music isn't the same thing as something tangible like a tee-shirt, and especailly when we are not talking about stealing the actual CD. We're talking about an intellectual property. You see and a bigger difference is that there is two forms of this property, both the live performance and the actual recording. Does the artist "own" both or are they effectively giving it away as soon as they make it so that it could be heard? I'm sure to make your point you would say both are owned by the artist, but I believe its atleast a valid question. Under your definition then a person who sits outside a show and listens is effectively stealing.

[Gorth]

Morality can't be an issue in this, especially since the same people who own majority shares of Sony/Epic  are also the same people who own majority shares in companies that produce landmines.

Then you should throw molotov ****tails at people who play playstation games... I fail to see the relevance for the subject of theft (which is admittedly also off-topic for this thread).

 

Music isn't the same thing as something tangible like a tee-shirt, and especailly when we are not talking about stealing the actual CD. We're talking about an intellectual property.

No, we are talking about theft. In my book, if you steal something, that other people has put man-hours into making, whether it be a loaf of bread, a building, a composition, a digital image or even something as abstract as a scientific theory, you are stealing. Not really a complicated concept.

 

You see and a bigger difference is that there is two forms of this property, both the live performance and the actual recording. Does the artist "own" both or are they effectively giving it away as soon as they make it so that it could be heard?  I'm sure to make your point you would say both are owned by the artist, but I believe its atleast a valid question. Under your definition then a person who sits outside a show and listens is effectively stealing.

Depends on whether that person is sitting outside the show for the purpose of not paying the person who put time and effort into making the music. While the mere thought of prosecuting a casual listener outside a concert (who might be there for a completely legit and unrelated reason, like taking a walk in a park), it doesn't change the fact that ethically, it's theft, because you persue some kind of entertainment created by others and you take steps to ensure, that the person doesn't get compensated for time, material and work going into that performance.

 

Btw. I don't claim moral high ground, I was no better when I was a young man, I just don't agree to the claims that it isn't theft.

[LoneWolf16]

Downloading music is legal in canada 

 

Which is good because downloading MP3s has lead to most of my music purchases.

 

I'd say 75% of my purchases are because of MP3s I've downloaded. 25% is from band loyalty.

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Wow...Canada is lookin' better and better...

 

Valid point, too. You are more likely to purchase a CD having heard some of the band's music pre-pocket emptying.

 

On topic...or, rather, what this topic has become:

 

True, mp3 downloading is theft, but, that doesn't mean people will stop doing it. So, Jessica Simpson can't afford a gold plated limo right when the urge to buy hits her, and, instead, has to wait a few weeks for her albums (Albums, in general, which, despite what people think, are still selling very nicely) to pull in enough cash.

 

It was mentioned earlier, and I agree...this has nothing to do with individual morals, so trying to make theft seem "bad" is really a dead end. (Don't get me wrong...I don't think theft is "good", but it sure as hell won't keep me from gettin that song I really like for free...)

[zer"0"]

And meanwhile in other news: TROIKA LIVES!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

::grampybone sez:: "Still the dark spirits are, their flesh weak... but like cold currents from the deep sea brings change"

::heh heh::

[Darque]

And meanwhile in other news: TROIKA LIVES!!!

 

 

 

 

::grampybone sez:: "Still the dark spirits are,  their flesh weak... but like cold currents from the deep sea brings change"

::heh heh:: 

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So they're not dying after all?

[Child of Flame]

@Servant:  No, I'm sorry, sweetie... I'm serious when I say I don't give out my pen name.  I keep my two lives totally separate.

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[+stalking] That's alright, I've got a good idea of where/what your plot looks like anyway. [/+stalking]

[Oerwinde]

Downloading music is legal in canada 

 

Which is good because downloading MP3s has lead to most of my music purchases.

 

I'd say 75% of my purchases are because of MP3s I've downloaded. 25% is from band loyalty.

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Wow...Canada is lookin' better and better...

 

Yeah, though we have a 25 cent per CD surcharge on all blank CDs. Which can really add up when you buy a spindle of 100 cds. The RIAA is fighting to increase the surcharge to 70 cents and force ISPs to give them like 20% of their profits too. So far retail chains are against the 70 cent surcharge, to the point of having big standee ads in the stores telling people to write to their MP to make sure it doesn't happen. I'm pretty sure the judges told the RIAA to shove it with the whole ISPs giving them so much money too.

 

The RIAA bothers me. They bitch at us about stealing when the artists behind the music they make so much money off of only gets something like 15-20% of the revenues. They're the thieves IMO.

 

*Waits for Volourn to say its the artists fault for signing the contracts in the first place*

[Child of Flame]

Downloading music is legal in canada 

 

Which is good because downloading MP3s has lead to most of my music purchases.

 

I'd say 75% of my purchases are because of MP3s I've downloaded. 25% is from band loyalty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow...Canada is lookin' better and better...

 

Yeah, though we have a 25 cent per CD surcharge on all blank CDs. Which can really add up when you buy a spindle of 100 cds. The RIAA is fighting to increase the surcharge to 70 cents and force ISPs to give them like 20% of their profits too. So far retail chains are against the 70 cent surcharge, to the point of having big standee ads in the stores telling people to write to their MP to make sure it doesn't happen. I'm pretty sure the judges told the RIAA to shove it with the whole ISPs giving them so much money too.

 

The RIAA bothers me. They bitch at us about stealing when the artists behind the music they make so much money off of only gets something like 15-20% of the revenues. They're the thieves IMO.

 

*Waits for Volourn to say its the artists fault for signing the contracts in the first place*

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It's the artist's faults for signing the contracts in the first place...wait...I'm not Volourn, I don't know what came over me.

[Laozi]

Then you should throw molotov ****tails at people who play playstation games... I fail to see the relevance for the subject of theft (which is admittedly also off-topic for this thread).

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Music isn't the same thing as something tangible like a tee-shirt, and especailly when we are not talking about stealing the actual CD. We're talking about an intellectual property.

 

No, we are talking about theft. In my book, if you steal something, that other people has put man-hours into making, whether it be a loaf of bread, a building, a composition, a digital image or even something as abstract as a scientific theory, you are stealing. Not really a complicated concept.

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Yes but after a scientist proves a theory they aren't entitled to anything but the credit for the theory itself. "Your book" is great for you but it might not hold water for someone else, and theres no reason for ones personal believes to be status quo. Basically a song is sound and its hard to say for certain someone owns sound. You can own lyric, and they're definitely closer to a loaf of bread then sound is What if someone found a chord on guitar that no one had ever played before, would that mean they would own that chord?

 

You see and a bigger difference is that there is two forms of this property, both the live performance and the actual recording. Does the artist "own" both or are they effectively giving it away as soon as they make it so that it could be heard?  I'm sure to make your point you would say both are owned by the artist, but I believe its atleast a valid question. Under your definition then a person who sits outside a show and listens is effectively stealing.

 

Depends on whether that person is sitting outside the show for the purpose of not paying the person who put time and effort into making the music. While the mere thought of prosecuting a casual listener outside a concert (who might be there for a completely legit and unrelated reason, like taking a walk in a park), it doesn't change the fact that ethically, it's theft, because you persue some kind of entertainment created by others and you take steps to ensure, that the person doesn't get compensated for time, material and work going into that performance.

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Somethings in life you just can't charge for, no matter how greedy an entity becomes, and its not theft. My opinion is the only way you could steal music would be to steal someones song by taken credit for writing it. To listen to it for free is not a crime, not more then listening to the radio. If you were to sell that music to someone else then that would be wrong, and possible a crime, but a difficult one to prosecute.

 

Btw. I don't claim moral high ground, I was no better when I was a young man, I just don't agree to the claims that it isn't theft.

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I don't see that this is all that complicated, and once again this isn't a moral issue, we're not taking food out of Hoobastank's mouth. And when you get up to the pearly gates St. Peter is not going to ask,"Did you download music from a filesharing site for free?"

 

Bam bound for the lake of fire

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

The main reason people do it is your not likely to get caught. It's an easy crime which dosnt require the sort of risks that go along with robbing a bank or stealing a car.

 

The laws need to have much harsher penalties for these theives.

[Drakoth]

I dont pirate games myself, I prefer to "pay" the people for their hard work

 

But to compare downloading a game and stealing a car is rediculous

 

When you steal the car, you are depriving someone else of it. When you download a game, you arent depriving anyone of the same.

 

What if someone came up with an invention that replicated jaguars? and he gave them out for free?

 

Would you arrest him? lock him up?

 

What if he had a device that replicated food products? would you arrest him for "Stealing" ?

 

Its not like you are stealing the liberty bell.

 

What about the poster in this thread? the man in khazakstan who simply cannot buy the game where he lives? What if he simply snapped his fingers and got a copy for free? Technically he would not have been able to buy the thing in the first place, so would it be wrong/illegal for him to obtain it at no expense to anyone else?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I dont pirate games myself, I prefer to "pay" the people for their hard work

 

But to compare downloading a game and stealing a car is rediculous

 

When you steal the car, you are depriving someone else of it. When you download a game, you arent depriving anyone of the same.

 

What if someone came up with an invention that replicated jaguars? and he gave them out for free?

 

Would you arrest him? lock him up?

 

What if he had a device that replicated food products? would you arrest him for "Stealing" ?

 

Its not like you are stealing the liberty bell.

 

What about the poster in this thread? the man in khazakstan who simply cannot buy the game where he lives? What if he simply snapped his fingers and got a copy for free? Technically he would not have been able to buy the thing in the first place, so would it be wrong/illegal for him to obtain it at no expense to anyone else?

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If you steal a car from an individual who has already bought it yes. If you steal it from the factory then your not depriving anyone of it the factory simply makes another copy like the publisher would.Although the materials are more expensive it's the same process. But your still stealing it. It dosnt belong to you until you pay for it and complete the contract same goes for any product.

 

Couldnt do it because of patenting. You cant simply copy someones invention and then give it away. He would get locked up and or suffer heavy fines.

 

Food isnt an invention (unless you are talking about specfic man made foods) if people want to grow food and then give it away, well thats up to them. If on the other hand you hop over the fence and take an apple off a tree , thats theft (and trespass).

 

No one has a right to entertainment regardless of where they live. Whether or not something is available is irrelevent, its still theft and he's still a thief.

[mEtaLL1x]

Damn, I was out for just some hours and lo! there is whole page of aggressive flaming and quarreling! A very interesting read it is.

 

Wee, I really like this forum!

 

 

But once again, you fail to understand my situation here. I can't buy games from web, alright? I'm not going to explain why, because you won't get it anyway (no offense, but it's just another world here).

So, what else am I to do?

Nobody sells english-language licensed games here. The only licensed version I can get is russian localization, but not all games are localized in RUssia, most of them are not, actually.

So I have no other choice, but to buy pirated versions. It's not because licensed are much more expensive - no! Jewel-versions cost almost the same as pirated, but I just can't find them most of the time.

There is no KOTOR Russian licensed localization.

 

I'm not going to strip myself of a pleasure of playing great games just because there is no licensed versions on sale in my town.

It's not my problem, alright?

 

call me a thief, I don't give a damn.

[Ellester]

@metall1x you said earlier in this thread that you don

[~Di]

There are now legal music download sites which charge a nominal fee for the service; part of the fee goes into a "royalty pot" for the artists and others who created the music. There are also fees on blank CD's for the same thing.

 

One way or the other, y'all simply have to pay for the product and services you receive. I know some of you think you are better than anyone else on the planet, and entitled to steal anything your little heart desires. But trust me. You're not.

 

Your mama's should have taught you this already, but since apparently some of them didn't bother, I'll teach it to you instead. :D