Tackling the online issue...

[Plano Skywalker]

Alright, I know alot of us want some sort of online functionality with this franchise.

I am an Xbox player and I have played through KOTOR I at least twice but I never got around to downloading the Yavin station....well, I just did and I'm going to play through it again so I can check out the station.

 

Here is the thing:

 

* NO, subscription-based "Galaxies" or "Everquest"-style online play is not what this franchise needs.

 

* NO, an extra map is not quite the answer either.

 

So, the answer, as I see it, is some sort of hybrid of the two. And it has to be something that the Suits can make money with. OK, this might seem a little radical but here it goes:

 

"KOTOR IV: the Demise of Exar Khun" could have this online functionality where:

 

* everyone who buys the game also gets a developer kit (it's really just a map creation kit).

 

* once you beat the game, you "unlock" the kit and the online functionality.

 

* everytime you upload something, you pay $1.

 

* every quarter (3 months), there is a new mission kit. The mission kit is at least 10 hours of new content. and it costs $5 to download.

 

* presumably, there would be much more content uploaded than what could be used...too much for the corporate guys to filter through...

 

* for this reason, there are *subscribers* who pay $15/month...the subscribers decide what 50 hours of material to submit to corporate for the final editing.

 

* like the online-only games, there is property to be bought, shops to be set up, etc.

 

 

thoughts on this?

 

- Plano

[Force Reaper]

[Epiphany]

...

[Bokishi]

Hmmm

[Bastilla_Skywalker]

I dont know

[Drakron]

You know, if I get control of that GDI orbital ion gun you can be damn sure my first target is not going to the White House or any of those landmarks ...

[Azazel005]

You know, if I get control of that GDI orbital ion gun you can be damn sure my first target is not going to the White House or any of those landmarks ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Mwahahahaha, thats awesome.

 

Of course, there probably wouldn't be many of us left if you had said weapon.

 

In short, though Plano the idea .....well it sucks.

 

It's an over simplified near impossible concept, but don't feel bad dude, I like this thread a lot more than another "Who is the greatest Sith Lord of doom with the doomiest powers of destruction?" poll.

[Plano Skywalker]

In short, though Plano the idea .....well it sucks.

 

It's an over simplified near impossible concept, but don't feel bad dude, I like this thread a lot more than another "Who is the greatest Sith Lord of doom with the doomiest powers of destruction?" poll.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I admit, there would be ALOT OF CRAP uploaded....but the filtering process should catch it....seriously.

[Kalfear]

Alright, I know alot of us want some sort of online functionality with this franchise.

I am an Xbox player and I have played through KOTOR I at least twice but I never got around to downloading the Yavin station....well, I just did and I'm going to play through it again so I can check out the station.

 

Here is the thing:

 

* NO, subscription-based "Galaxies" or "Everquest"-style online play is not what this franchise needs.

 

Disagree, This franchise would fit nicely into a MMORPG setting and would exceed expectations of many nay sayers who refuse to look at the whole picture. FFXI already has a system similar (graphics, zones, engine) to KotOR so its already been proven people would play this with this engine design. The quests and storyline would be the huge seller and would be alot more interesting then playing with NPCs.

 

To write of the MMORPG with no reasoning or knowledge to back your statement shows how limited your preseption of games are.

 

You dont like MMORPGs, fine we get that, but to say No based soly on your own inability to grasp the whole picture and desire to eliminate content that others beyond your narrow minded veiw is arrogence in its most unpleasent form!

 

* NO, an extra map is not quite the answer either.

 

I have no idea what your talking about here? Rather then saying NO. How about expanding on your statements so they make sence? Thanks

 

So, the answer, as I see it, is some sort of hybrid of the two. And it has to be something that the Suits can make money with. OK, this might seem a little radical but here it goes:

 

"KOTOR IV: the Demise of Exar Khun" could have this online functionality where:

 

* everyone who buys the game also gets a developer kit (it's really just a map creation kit). you "unlock" the kit and the online functionality.

 

 

And this would help how??? Again how about explaining yourself rather then making blanket statements!!

 

* once you beat the game,

 

And this would help how??? Again how about explaining yourself rather then making blanket statements!!

 

 

* everytime you upload something, you pay $1.

 

WHY???? WTH are you talking about???? seriously!

 

* every quarter (3 months), there is a new mission kit. The mission kit is at least 10 hours of new content. and it costs $5 to download.

 

Online expansions, fine. Hardly a new idea or ground breaking idea but it would work. Question tho, are you talking the expansions made by Obsidian or by players? If by players then you would have to pay me to download the content as most player made mods in games are boarderline stupidity at the best of times!

 

* presumably, there would be much more content uploaded than what could be used...too much for the corporate guys to filter through...

 

Again, WTH are you talking about. Seriously buddy, you need to EXPLAIN your ideas, not just assume people will know what your yammering about! What uploads? Player made mods?????

 

* for this reason, there are *subscribers* who pay $15/month...the subscribers decide what 50 hours of material to submit to corporate for the final editing.

 

Errr so your suggesting that the players vote on the mods that get submitted????? So lets see, the players play the mods to see if they are good (and pay for this no less where as if you worked for Obsidian (or any other company) you would be GETTING paid to do this by them). Then after you have finished playing the mod you vote on it to become submitted to the company so they can repackage it and SELL it to you as a expansion even tho you have already played it???? Is that what your saying???

 

If it is, that is the STUPIDEST IDEA Ive ever heard! Whose going to pay for a expansion they have already played????????

 

* like the online-only games, there is property to be bought, shops to be set up, etc.

 

Ummm, I must have missed this part of your propossal. Oh wait, you just didnt explain and left it empty it like everything else!

 

 

thoughts on this?

 

My thoughts on post.

* Rather then make open ended, unformed statements casting judgements on different styles of play, how about you expand you ideas so they make sence and are complete!

*You said your a Xbox player only. How about you go try some of those MMORPGs before opening your mouth and passing false judgements so you "MIGHT" have a clue as to what your talking about!

*Believe it or not this was not a flame post reply. Im just sick and tired of people with no clue what they are speaking about posting like they are the be all and end all of gaming. Go get some experience and knowledge in the genres before you pass your false judgements!

[Plano Skywalker]

I have no idea what your talking about here? Rather then saying NO. How about expanding on your statements so they make sence? Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I will respond to your other points in time....to answer this question, the Xbox version of KOTOR I had a free download...another "world" you could go to ..... a Yavin Space Station.

 

- Plano

[Craigboy2]

Plano's school system sucks

[jaguars4ever]

Plano's school system sucks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What school system? ^_^

[Plano Skywalker]

Plano's school system sucks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Whoohooo, please, no Ad Hom attacks....substance only, please...

 

Thank You

[Drakron]

I dont know how I missed this ...

 

Who the hell is of Exar Khun?

 

If you mean Exar Kun it been done and I doubt Black Horse would like to someone go there and recreate their work, not to say that Exar Kun takes a rule later after Luke created the Jedi Academy and bases it on Yavin IV.

[Plano Skywalker]

I dont know how I  missed this ...

 

Who the hell is of Exar Khun?

 

If you mean Exar Kun it been done and I doubt Black Horse would like to someone go there and recreate their work, not to say that Exar Kun takes a rule later after Luke created the Jedi Academy and bases it on Yavin IV.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That was just a whimsical statement about a possible title....I really don't care what the title would be....

[Plano Skywalker]

Disagree, This franchise would fit nicely into a MMORPG setting and would exceed expectations of many nay sayers who refuse to look at the whole picture. FFXI already has a system similar (graphics, zones, engine) to KotOR so its already been proven people would play this with this engine design. The quests and storyline would be the huge seller and would be alot more interesting then playing with NPCs.

 

To write of the MMORPG with no reasoning or knowledge to back your statement shows how limited your preseption of games are.

 

You dont like MMORPGs, fine we get that, but to say No based soly on your own inability to grasp the whole picture and desire to eliminate content that others beyond your narrow minded veiw is arrogence in its most unpleasent form!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OK, obviously, a good number of us want online functionality. We have established that. And, I think it is doubtful that LA would want another of their properties to go head to head with SWG....if we don't agree on that, then I see no reason to go any further.

 

Now, I will discuss my own personal prejudice with regard to MMORPGs. MMORPGs are expensive...$15 a month. I'm sorry, but I do not want to pay that if I don't have to. They are also, IN MANY CASES, full of "macro writers" and people with 2 or 3 accounts just so they can buff up their main character. Some would call it "cheating" but, in order to cheat, there has to be an objective...what is the objective of these games? For some people it is nothing more than an excuse to cuss and make cat calls, etc. I don't want that but I do want new content from time to time.

 

- Plano

[Plano Skywalker]

* everyone who buys the game also gets a developer kit (it's really just a map creation kit). you "unlock" the kit and the online functionality.

 

And this would help how??? Again how about explaining yourself rather then making blanket statements!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OK, have you ever played Counter Strike? This was nothing more than a mod of Half Life. And did you notice all the maps that there were. People had map making kits because the developers allowed it. Or even Sim City 2000 where you could make up your own terrain map before you played the game. That's what I'm talking about.... YOU AND ME AND ANYONE who has the game will have the ability to point and click, drag and drop and make their own levels. And if the person thinks it is really hot, he can upload it to the developers to see if it makes into the next Mission Pack. That is what I'm talking about.

 

But I am not talking about downloading anything and everything that people make...I would be willing to pay for the better stuff. I would be willing to pay someone else to filter out the crap.

 

The "unlock" thing was just an idea....nothing to get worked up about.

I thought it would make sense that you have to complete the main story before you start creating (and possibly uploading) your own maps.

[Plano Skywalker]

* for this reason, there are *subscribers* who pay $15/month...the subscribers decide what 50 hours of material to submit to corporate for the final editing.

 

Errr so your suggesting that the players vote on the mods that get submitted????? So lets see, the players play the mods to see if they are good (and pay for this no less where as if you worked for Obsidian (or any other company) you would be GETTING paid to do this by them). Then after you have finished playing the mod you vote on it to become submitted to the company so they can repackage it and SELL it to you as a expansion even tho you have already played it???? Is that what your saying???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OK, if you are a SUBSCRIBER, you get all the content for free. But yes, there is a certain perversity to the idea of people PAYING TO BETA TEST new mods. But, you know what, there will still be plenty of people who want to do it.....you KNOW this is true. And it will appeal to the Suits because they will be making money from both the subscribers and the player base.

 

- Plano

[Plano Skywalker]

Online expansions, fine. Hardly a new idea or ground breaking idea but it would work. Question tho, are you talking the expansions made by Obsidian or by players?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OK, here is another area I need to flesh out (and I do regret not doing so earlier). What I envsion is the Developers sending out an email to the Subscribers at the beginning of the new quarter and saying something like "OK, the next Mission Pack is going to take place on the Dxun moon and will involve the following plot....we need these three maps to make it work".

 

So, at this point, the Subscribers can do the work themselves if they really want but they would also be able to post on message boards such as this one and tell people what they can upload and that the really good maps may well be used in the next content release.

 

But, yes, I am also talking about the professional developers doing the lion's share of the work.....It is just that, by allowing people to submit their ideas, you keep the interest at a high level.

 

Now, lets say the Developers allow the Subscribers to plant well-disguised Easter Eggs as well. What I mean is, the mission is complete but there is one NPC on Dxun who mentions something about a guy in Iziz who has property for sale or a guy on Alderan who has a prototype weapon for sale. If you actually go and talk to that person, you buy the property or the weapon, etc....but this would just be something extra....you would have to go out of your way to find this stuff.

 

- Plano

[Jad'en]

it wouldnt be possible... sorry to disappoint.

[AlanC9]

The big problem is that making KotOR maps is very hard. Not too many of us have the 3d modelling skills you need.

 

Other than that, this isn't too different from NWN.

[Plano Skywalker]

it wouldnt be possible... sorry to disappoint.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

and why would it not be possible? because of the 3d modeling as the other poster said? again, everything is drag and drop...you know, the Tarisian skyscrapers? That is an object that already exists...you just drag and drop however many you want. elevators? computer terminals? hallways? defense turrets? they already exist...the 3d sprites already exist.

 

Yes, I am talking about a kick*** map creation kit but it can be done.

[Plano Skywalker]

by the way, if you are not an Xbox user and you are curious about the Yavin Space Station download for KOTOR I, I will explain it with spoiler tags:

 

 

 

basically, it is a very small map in which you end up talking to a Rodian

who has taken up residence in an otherwise abandoned space station. The Rodian

mentions that he is frequently visited by mercenaries and smugglers and has a

few items to sell. He does not have alot because he is more of a fence than

a true merchant but he does have a nice piece of armor called the "Light Exoskeleton" that adds +1 Strength and +1 Dexterity...it also looks pretty cool.

 

However, he has whatever you sell him...gameplay-wise it might make sense to use him to sell all your expensive artifacts to....that way you can buy back whatever artifacts you need later when you have the cash.

 

The Rodian also will answer a few questions about Exar Kun and Yavin history but there is nothing there as far as the Star Maps are concerned.

 

Also, it is a really cool graphic looking down as you orbit the red gas planet Yavin.

 

 

[Kalfear]

Disagree, This franchise would fit nicely into a MMORPG setting and would exceed expectations of many nay sayers who refuse to look at the whole picture. FFXI already has a system similar (graphics, zones, engine) to KotOR so its already been proven people would play this with this engine design. The quests and storyline would be the huge seller and would be alot more interesting then playing with NPCs.

 

To write of the MMORPG with no reasoning or knowledge to back your statement shows how limited your preseption of games are.

 

You dont like MMORPGs, fine we get that, but to say No based soly on your own inability to grasp the whole picture and desire to eliminate content that others beyond your narrow minded veiw is arrogence in its most unpleasent form!

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OK, obviously, a good number of us want online functionality. We have established that. And, I think it is doubtful that LA would want another of their properties to go head to head with SWG....if we don't agree on that, then I see no reason to go any further.

 

Now, I will discuss my own personal prejudice with regard to MMORPGs. MMORPGs are expensive...$15 a month. I'm sorry, but I do not want to pay that if I don't have to. They are also, IN MANY CASES, full of "macro writers" and people with 2 or 3 accounts just so they can buff up their main character. Some would call it "cheating" but, in order to cheat, there has to be an objective...what is the objective of these games? For some people it is nothing more than an excuse to cuss and make cat calls, etc. I don't want that but I do want new content from time to time.

 

- Plano

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hmmmmm, interesting POV. Before I reply ill let you know I have been playing MMORPGs for going on 14 years now. I have played pretty much every title that has hit the market in that genre.

 

So its not a exageration when I say, the only two games that have had signifigant issues with macro writing are Ulitima Online and Star Wars Galaxies (altho games like Ashrons Call did have exploitation issues as well not related to macroing tho). Both were created by the same design teams (different companies but same actual people). There is with out a doubt the system is flawed. Thats nothing new and anyone whose played them knows this.

 

But they are but 2 games in a genre that encompasses far far far many more games. You CANT (and shouldnt) base a generalized opinion on the entire genre off of 2 games.

 

Also, both games attract PvP crowds. Now I dont wanna get into that topic as its a circular arguement that can never be won. Suffice to say that of any players in the genre, the pvp crowd are the ones most likely to find and create cheats and exploits to enhance their characters.

 

I dont think a KotOR MMOPRG should include PvP. The strenght of Knights of the Old Republic is storyline and quests. What path you choose to walk based on your choices. It doesnt need pvp as, if properly done (something most games that include pvp are not), it wouldnt need the crutch of having pvp to hide its lack of content (SWG is a great example of pvp being used to hide a flawed and underdeveloped system and game).

 

Also, MMORPGs are not expencive! Sure they are 15.00/month. For that $15 you get a full month of playing (in my case thats anywhere from 10 to 160 hours of play). So thats 1.50/hour to $0.09/hour for your enjoyment! Thats a bargin no matter how you look at it!!!!! Cable TV, Movies (rental or theater), sports all cost far far more then that!!! Sorry the cost reason doesnt fly. If MMORPGs were still a $2.95/hour charge like they were when they first appeared on the market (NWN on AOL back in 1991) then yes the expensive excuse could be used. Thats just simply no longer the case tho.

 

PS: As for going head to head with SWG, LA already has a Ad up asking for a NEW Lead Designer for SWG. LA knows SOE has screwed the pooch with SWG and its my belief if a BETTER (and KotOR series is better) Star Wars system was made available as a MMORPG. LA would have 0 issue with running with it. I play SWG and it is so broken and poorly designed that barring a total and complete remake from the ground level up, the game just cant be fixed. And it already has the stigma of being one of the worst MMORPGs on the market. As anyone with any bussiness experience will tell you, its ALOT harder to get unhappy customers back then it is to keep a customer happy from the get go. SWG has burned its bridges on pretty much every front and LA is VERY VERY Aware of this fact.

 

So to assume that LA wouldnt be interested in a new title to run head to head with SWG once that contract is up (which is happening sometime this year btw) is just lack of information. If the right propossal came along LA would jump at the chance as a broken SWG HURTS the Star Wars franchise more then it helps!

[Plano Skywalker]

Well, I may plunk down the $15/month one of these days...maybe for WOWC, I don't know. But let me say that I'm glad you cleared some things up for me. Yes, indeed, if KOTOR could come up with a MMORPG that did not have PVP and had a really good engine and a really good stream of new content, a main storyline (for those interested), then, yeah, I might go for that.

 

Still, I prefer the idea of paying for new content on a *PER INCIDENT* basis rather than on a subscription basis. I think the fact that the Xbox had a downloadable map in the first KOTOR got our hopes up for new content downloads but it hasn't materialized.

 

- Plano