Filling in the plot holes at the end...

[mayo20]

Im trying to look at it like this:

My PC, being disconected from the force is informed that he is the last of the jedi and out a moral/duty obligation must attempt to stop the sith. He seeks to reunite all the masters to combat the threat only to discover that the threat is in fact himself. And therefore the PC, due to his nature with the force ( empty shell - using others who can feel the force to increase in strength himself) becomes relativly stronger than anyone else using the force.

 

Also, I think that Nilihus' attack on Telos was more an action of desperation rather than a strategic move. He also fed off the force in others and had grown week since there was a lack of jedi/ force sensitve people to be found. Hence, the ease of his defeat was due to his weakened state.

 

I think at the end the game is more about unlocking the mystery of your own character rather than trying to save the galaxy. even though that is what happened when you beat Treya

 

Someone let me know if i something in that is obviously wrong

[Tainted Mustard]

He seeks to reunite all the masters to combat the threat only to discover that the threat is in fact himself.

 

That's what the Masters believe. It's not quite as simple as that.

[KingSnake]

wasn't satisfied with the ending, but, for the most part, I got it.

 

allow me to try and explain. (bare with me, bad spelling, poor grammar, and generally crappy writing skills here...)

 

Ok, this WHOLE game, is about betrayal and manipulation.

 

Your entire adventure is one huge set up by Kreia. She was manipulating you to get revenge on a number of people.

 

The sith lords for casting her out and stripping her of her power.

The Jedi for being blind fools, and also for exiling her, blaming her for Revens fall. (I think)

The Force, for controlling everything, and having a will of it's own, and controlling events to shape it's will, at the expense of others free will...

 

She used you to achieve this. She knew your ability to create force bonds with people would draw force sensitive people to you, thus making you stronger, and drawing out the sith lords she wanted destroyed. She also knew that you'd be able to draw out the Jedi, them fearing what your capable of, and knowing you had questions you wanted answered from them. She also saw in you, someone who wounded the force, and, exerted YOUR will over it's. She wasn't sure how you did it, but she saw the potential there, I guess, to destroy the force... I'm not sure HOW, but... she said she saw the death of the force in you. (Maybe she didn't mean the whole force, for the whole galaxie, but the Force in YOU, as in, you killed it's control over you by turning away from it... i'm still thinking on this.)

 

Anyway, her agenda was revenge and destruction, and you where the key to all this. So, she found you, set you up to (somehow) come back to the republic, started the rumor of you being the last Jedi, knowing the sith would attack you, then slipped herself in to the mix, acting as a savor and mentor for you, and then set about getting you ready for the tasks at hand, getting revenge. I think along the way though, you began to teach her a thing or to. (you are a nature leader after all.) She saw the potential of you becoming the strongest of her students, and that too, intrigued her. She grew attached.

 

But despite that attachment she still wanted revenge. So the pieces fell into place. You grew powerful, gathered other force sensitive, found the masters, which allowed her to kill them, unless you did it. Then eventually drew the attention of the biggest threat of all, Darh Nailius. Why was he so easy to defeat you ask? She set him up. She knew he'd prolly be hungry and weak. Remember he needs to feed on the force to stay strong, and she knew it. She also knew that talos didn't have enough force food to sustain him, and that after making the long trip there, he'd be hungry and vulnerable, and that because of that, you'd prolly be able to take him.

 

After that, you follow her to malacor, and kill her pupil, as she knew you would, and then you faced her. This is where I get kind of confused. She wants you to kill her. She feels that once you done that, she would have succeeded in training the most powerful apprentice she ever had, more powerful then her first, and she could die satisfied in that knowledge. Ok, but what about destroying the force? I don't fully understand that point... she didn't seem like she was actually doing anything at malocor to destroy the force... Maybe that had something to do with the ritual at Duxon. Or maybe the ritual at duxon was, more then likely, somehow tied to helping the General somehow take over the kingdom... or maybe it was a ritual to give the sith troops power over the beasts they controlled. I'm not sure to be honest.

 

as far as the end goes, I believe they left it as open ended as they could. How'd you and your friends get off the planet? Well, after Kreia was dead, all you had to do was find them, get to the hawk, and leave, staring the shadow thing as you left. What of the droids? I'm assuming the little remote showed GoTo he's got alot of spunk for a droid, and overrode GoTo's programming and destroyed Malocor, taking him and Goto with it. (poor little guy)

 

and your Decision at the end? I was looking for the, stay with my friends option, but I think the Decision is really made by you after the fact. As in, after the game, you make the call. Did you follow Reven? Did you go back with your friends? Did you return to exile. I think that choose is left unanswered purposefully, so that abundant fan fic's can be writing... LoL.

 

But, there was crap I really didn't like about the ending.

 

1. What the heck was Reven doing? Leaving to fight the real sith? Alone? Just abandoning his friends and loved ones, leaving them with unanswered questions and hurt? That is NOT how my Reven would have acted. But I guess once KoToR is over, he's not MY Reven anymore.

 

2. If the Decision is really mine to Follow reven, stay with my friends, or return to exile, then I hope I picked a wrong dialogue option at the end, because the future's Kreia gave me sure looked like I left after Reven. Meria misses me and dies on a planet saving lives, had I been there, she'd not be missing me, nor would she die, I'd be there to save her butt.

 

same with handmaiden, she'd not have to teach about what I'm like if I'm there.

 

but as I type this, a thought accurse to me. What if, by choosing to ask about your friends, and asking to see there future, you choosing to follow reven... I mean, why would I ask what will happen to them, if I'm going to be there to see it? Hmm.

 

and a line at the end also bugs me. She said, if you question her about reven, and ask her why she didn't follow him, she says she's there to show others the way? Huh? If she were trying to destroy the force... what OTHERS would there be? And the true sith she talked about would be dead too... and, if you killed her, like she wanted, then, your the only OTHER one she showed the way too... and if she broke you, you'd not be following after reven at all.... that line just didn't make any since to me... it didn't fit into any of her agandies.... I'm guessing it'd make more since if I had more influence with her and had her open up about reven beforethe end. that's what I'm working on now...

 

anyway, that's my whole take on it. I too, have started a new quest. Playing it more slowly and thoroughly. Hoping to find out what happened to Jolee, Mission, Big Z and Johinia... anyone seen hide nor hair of them yet?

 

KingSnake.

[Boiler98]

Good overview KingSnake. There is a lot in there that I was assuming too, and certainly the questions at the end where some of the many I had.

 

The true thing that was happening had nothing to do with the Sith of the OT, the Sith of KotOR I. Kreia says it's a force that needs to be stopped, and that belies her true intent, to destroy the Force.

This is one point that I've become more confused (or perhaps "concerned") about as other gaps are filled. The "true threat" is mentioned in passing once or twice during the game when you talk Kriea -- the "what if Revan was preparing the Galaxy for something bigger". Then it is brought up at the end, and Kriea almost sounds as if she was preparing you for that journey the whole time.

 

When I faced Kreia, my belief is that she wanted to destroy that force and I was the key -- that my *death* (according to Atris) was somehow the key, or a reasonable substitute to the true ritual. So, I go kill her. At the end she seems to have randomly forgotten about destroying the force and is now getting you ready to fight the "true Sith threat".

 

It just seems to me that the story doesn't know what to make of its own plot, how it should end, after you hit Dantooine for the second time.

 

Really, though... doesn't it look like the shadow generator explodes, Mira and crew get back to the ship, the ship is alive after all...

One would assume, it is what I assumed in the case of Mira but have no idea for the rest. Remote had to stay to set off the bomb -- did GO-TO stay too, did he have his fight out with Remote? Is Bao-Dur dead? There are too many questions about the immediate fate of my party members.

[Maria Caliban]

Maria's conjectures

 

Boiler:

1) Darth Nihilis. His point in the story was... what? Sure I *thought* he was the new Lord of the Sith, or something similar, which was causing all this trouble. When you run into him, he is nothing. What he is, why he is doing what he is, his background with Visas (and her background with him)... never explained. He just ends up being nothing other then one more person I have to kill."

 

At first, he was a boogie man. He drained worlds of life while Sion hunted down Jedi. Ultimately, he was there to show you the effect you had on the galaxy. That's one of the reasons that Kriea always talked about ripples in the Force. It's like the beggar and the thugs on Nar Shaddan. You thought Malikor V was a good act when you did it but the result was the creation of Darth Nillis.

 

" 2) Darth Sion. Led to believe he is in charge of a different sect of Sith. See him, along with Nihilis, defeat Kreia in a cut scene and watch him cut off her hand. Only to suddenly be Kreia's student again... what!?"

 

Sith apprentices kill their Mentors in time but Sion didn't. His first chance he stripped her of her powers and cast her out and the second time he chopped off her had, which we learn is the old Jedi way of marking a cast-off. He never passes the Sith lithmas test, so to speak, and remains under her thumb. She simply doesn't apply pressure until the right moment, when you've gown as powerful as he and returned to Malikor V.

 

" 3) Atris. I spoke with Atris at the end, getting a dialog option to the effect of "You have fallen to the Dark Side, you must realize that" -- when I myself haven't realized that. We see (or hear about) her 4 times. (1) at the beginning, no indication she has fallen. (2) Kreia talks about her, with no indication she has fallen or is heading down that path. (3) The second time we see her, *bam* we suddenly know she has somehow fallen."

 

How do you know she's fallen to the dark side? Atris has set up an academy in the middle of a frozen, dead-zone; surrounded herself with virtual clones who are deaf to the force; and spends her time in a meditation chamber filled with Sith holocrons that constantly speak to her. That and Kreia tells you that Attris is walking the same path she did before she became a Sith. Oh, and as you're now completely in touch with the force you can probably feel the darkness in her meditation chamber.

 

" (4) At the end when Kreia talks about having to stop Atris' teachings... huh? ...exactly what teachings are these?"

 

Atris plans on creating a new Jedi academy

[Boiler98]

Thanks Maria. Many good points towards a some of the questions I still had. The major plot pieces are falling better into place with all the feedback.

 

Hopefully I'll be able to pick up what I'm still missing in my new game.

[darthillinovex]

I think it was left open-ended for a reason (alla Empire).

[Boiler98]

I'm almost a broken record with this ESB comparison.

 

The ending of KotOR2 was *not* left open ending, like Empire Strikes Back. ESB left many questions unanswered, but the movie stood on its own -- you did *not* have to watch Return of the Jedi in order to understand what had happened in ESB. You knew exactly who the characters where, what they were doing and why they were doing it. The ending of the movie provides closure for the events. You are left with a feeling of "what's next?" at the end of ESB, as you are at the end of KotOR1, but the characters actions and motives are never in question.

 

There is another movie trilogy which people have compaired KotOR2 to. The second movie in that trilogy requires you to watch the third in order to understand a lot of what happened and why in the second. That is just bad story telling.

 

What I've been pointing out in this thread, or been trying to correct in my head, is that major plot points are built up and then glazed over. There are important missions and dialogs which are never truely explained or seem to not even really matter. It is not the open ended nature of the end that (most) people have trouble with, it is the number of threads left unanswered, unaddressed, and lack of any closure what so ever.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

I'm almost a broken record with this ESB comparison.

 

The ending of KotOR2 was *not* left open ending, like Empire Strikes Back.  ESB left many questions unanswered, but the movie stood on its own -- you did *not* have to watch Return of the Jedi in order to understand what had happened in ESB.  You knew exactly who the characters where, what they were doing and why they were doing it.  The ending of the movie provides closure for the events.  You are left with a feeling of "what's next?" at the end of ESB, as you are at the end of KotOR1, but the characters actions and motives are never in question.

 

There is another movie trilogy which people have compaired KotOR2 to.  The second movie in that trilogy requires you to watch the third in order to understand a lot of what happened and why in the second.  That is just bad story telling.

 

What I've been pointing out in this thread, or been trying to correct in my head, is that major plot points are built up and then glazed over.  There are important missions and dialogs which are never truely explained or seem to not even really matter.  It is not the open ended nature of the end that (most) people have trouble with, it is the number of threads left unanswered, unaddressed, and lack of any closure what so ever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The ESB did leave some unanswered questions, the biggest being: "Why didn't you tell me?" So you should have watched EP VI to know why Obi Wan didn't tell Luke the truth, from a certain point of view . Plus who was the other Yoda spoke about, I personally would have not known Leia was the other and Luke's sister without EP VI, considering the smootch they had in ESB

 

K2 is open ended but taken too far to understand.

[Boiler98]

The ESB did leave some unanswered questions, the biggest being: "Why didn't you tell me?" So you should have watched EP VI to know why Obi Wan didn't tell Luke the truth, from a certain point of view . Plus who was the other Yoda spoke about, I personally would have not known Leia was the other and Luke's sister without EP VI, considering the smootch they had in ESB

Those are exactly the two questions I always think about when I say "everything" is wrapped up in ESB. I just avoided mentioning them up till now though. "

 

But KotOR1 had a few of those too, but just that... a few, which made it a "what next?" ending -- in my opinion. In both cases (KotOR1 and ESB) they are all side notes though, but there just seemed to be several lose strings in the main plot for this game when I finished it the first time.

 

This thread has been very informative so far though and people have been great to fill in a lot of little points here and there, or to offer possible answers which will certainly be in my mind when I play through a second time. I at least know several locations where I need to pay extra special attention to this time around.

[junior]

Goto - I suspect that Goto's confrontation with the Remote is for one reason only. Goto doesn't care which group of force users come out on top, so long as there is a group of force users to shepherd the Republic. If the Exile returns to the Jedi path, then the force users will be Jedi, and will presumeably operate openly within the Republic. But if the Exile becomes a Sith, then he'll need a more covert base of operations - such as Malakor V.

 

The only reason that Goto is present, imo, is to make sure that the Remote doesn't prematurely detonate the planet. His final comment to the Remote is that they're going to wait for the Exile to send word - i.e. if the Exile wants to blow up the planet, then the planet will be blown up. But if the Exile doesn't want to blow up the planet, then the Remote won't jump the gun and do it anyway.

 

No matter what, there will be an organized group of force users to help shepherd the galaxy.

 

I'm operating under the assumption that you still steer the Remote around and activate the generators if your character is DS (I had a LS character).

 

Has anyone run back to collect Mira after her cutscene? Is it possible to leave the academy at that point? It crossed my mind (but only after the game was ended and I realized that she didn't have another cutscene) that it might be possible to do so, and that might be the reason that she's there - a companion, if necessary, during the final sequence. I haven't had a chance to test that theory yet.

[servo]

Those are exactly the two questions I always think about when I say "everything" is wrapped up in ESB.  I just avoided mentioning them up till now though.  " 

 

A good story will leave minor things open ended on both sides questions about what happened before (allusions to the clone wars in ANH, mandalorian wars in KOTOR), and what happens next (ending to KOTOR and ESB). This gives a sense you are experiencing a snapshot of a living universe rather than a structured story.

 

"There is another" was done almost in passing, most people who saw the movie probably didn't catch it the first time. "Why didn't you tell me?" was more philisophical, not something at the end of the movie that I was burning to know. Luke calling out to Leia was something that more piqued my interest.

These things left the movie open-ended but they were interesting side notes that not tied directly into the main plot.

 

The story telling of KOTOR2 placed alot of emphasis on open ended plot threads, begging for them to be answered. If ESB was presented like KOTOR 2 those open threads would have been as follows:

"There is another" - changed to "No Leia will save the galaxy"

"Luke I am your father" - some long speech about the duality of the universe ending with Vader saying - Obiwan didn't tell you, you exist because I chose the darkside. Luke falls, cut to scene of falcon flying away, roll credits

[Bless]

Though I've learned a lot through reading all this, it still doesn't fix the game. It seems that the game is more concluded as LS, so imagine what it's like for us DSers O_O; All I know is that when I killed Kreia, I threw her off the platform, the camera zoomed up out of Malachor V and then the credits rolled. Nothing to do with explosions, or the crew or the E.Hawk. Some things you guys are asking about because they aren't clear to you I never even *heard*. It keeps getting worse and worse . . . I'll actually have to play LS legit . . .

 

The game should be able to stand on its own. It's fine to bring up side questions and points of personal interest through the game to follow through in a sequel. But to not close or at least partially solve the main plot, to start plots and then never touch them again; to have to completely rely on a sequel to finish the previous game, that's not right.

[Maria Caliban]

If you leave the Trayus Acadamy right after the Mira/GoTo side quests you won't find Mira and the gate to GoTo will be locked. You'll find Hanhar (still alive, even if Mira killed him) but won't be able to interact with him.

[Darth Barth]

I just finished playing, as a light side female, and don't know what the heck happened. I feel absolutely no sense of accomplishment in having done anything but solved a lot of little problems and killed a whole lot of people. Nothing seemed to be answered.

 

Maybe I can help answer them. I played through with a LS male with STR/DEX/CON 8s and INT/WIS/CHA 16s at the start.

 

1) Darth Nihilis. His point in the story was... what? Sure I *thought* he was the new Lord of the Sith, or something similar, which was causing all this trouble. When you run into him, he is nothing. What he is, why he is doing what he is, his background with Visas (and her background with him)... never explained. He just ends up being nothing other then one more person I have to kill.

 

The point of Darth Nihilus in the story was he could easily defeat Kriea. There is a movie that shows Kreia getting knocked down hard. She narrates that there were disagreements and ambition amongst them. Also, this is key, when Nihilus pushes her down, Kreia says there are techniques in the Force against which there is no defense.

 

Since you have this wound and are a cipher to the Force, Darth Nihilus could not feed on you. It is revealed that Darth Nihilus learned hunger, Sion pain, and Kreia betrayal. During the conversation just prior to the fight on the Ravager bridge, there is an option that comes up that says something to the effect of "You will starve to death with me here."

 

Basically, you are a pawn to Kreia in order to defeat the other Sith Lords and to realize her ultimate ambition. Also, everyone in the game is using you.

 

 

2) Darth Sion. Led to believe he is in charge of a different sect of Sith. See him, along with Nihilis, defeat Kreia in a cut scene and watch him cut off her hand. Only to suddenly be Kreia's student again... what!?

 

Sion is a bit more of a mystery than Nihilus to me. Even though we learn more of Sion, his motives are hidden very well.

 

When you battle him, we learn that he is extremely jealous of your relationship with Kreia. It almost seems like a bizarre love-hate relationship given what he says on Korriban. Also, if you are Female he mentions that he loves you in a way.

 

I cannot remember more of the conversation and I don't have a save game right before him so I will return here when I can.

 

 

3) Atris. I spoke with Atris at the end, getting a dialog option to the effect of "You have fallen to the Dark Side, you must realize that" -- when I myself haven't realized that. We see (or hear about) her 4 times.

 

Here we go:

 

(1) at the beginning, no indication she has fallen.

 

There are some hints that she is fallen right off the bat if you talk to the different Handmaidens. If you ask them about Jedi artifacts, they mention that they are warm to the touch. My in-game dialogue response was something like "Warm to the touch? Hmm." This immediately set me on guard.

 

Also, when T3 plays back your trial. Atris is clearly pissed off and the other Jedi caution her that anger leads to the dark side.

 

(2) Kreia talks about her, with no indication she has fallen or is heading down that path.

 

If you have the influence and ask Kreia about Atris, Kreia says that Atris is not as familiar to her as she perhaps should be and that Kreia feels that she knows Atris. Given what we learn later, this is major foreshadowing.

 

Kreia also goes at length about Atris anger and about how this is a road that Kreia herself walked down long ago.

 

(3) The second time we see her, *bam* we suddenly know she has somehow fallen.

 

If you foster the influence, there will be no *bam*.

 

(4) At the end when Kreia talks about having to stop Atris' teachings... huh? ...exactly what teachings are these?

 

What teachings? Remember, Atris was trying to rebuild the Jedi Order.. albiet in her own image. To me, Atris and her teachings represented a threat to Kreia which is exactly why you were positioned to confront her.

 

 

4) Your shipmates on Malachor V.

-- Boa-Dur is implied to be dead, based on how I saw it. Is he, is he not? He tells Remote to activate some big bomb thing that I never remember hearing about. They the GO-?? driod flies in and talk about preventing the worlds destruction. The story is left at that. Nothing more.

 

Bao-durs fate is up to the imagination in my game. Perhaps there are other paths that speak more of him.

 

G0-T0's scene is to elaborate on his ulterior motives. I remember a cut-scene where G0-T0 sneaks up on Remote and shocks him "dead." After this I was curious to see that Sensor was flying about the ship dandy. Only at the end do we see that G0-T0 did something to Sensor after he knocked it out.. G0-To mentions he modified Sensors programming.

 

-- Mira. Kreia seems to indicate that she is a threat to her plans... first, *what plans* and second, all she does if fight Hanharr and it is left at that. Huh!?

 

Forgive me if I am mistaken, but when you train her to be Jedi, I remember Kreia saying something in a cutscene. This also happens when you train Handmaiden.

 

Training Jedi in the ways of the Force is an obvious obstacle to Kreia.

 

-- I guess I just have to take Kreia's word that everything turns out a-okay for all the rest.

 

I believe her visions of the future change depending on what you have done with the characters and planets in-game. Sort of like the end of Fallout.... hmm.. Chris Avellone mentioned something like this in one of his posts.

 

 

5) The Eban Hawk. Falls into a pit, and suddenly rises from one to save me. Ya... okay, very open ended but I'll live with it.

 

I here you on this one. I was like wtf? Is this Aliens?

 

 

6) The Jedi Masters. So I'm exiled because I lost the connection with the Force because the Jedi Masters see fear some huge disconnect in the Force. I go through all this work to find them all, to "combat the Sith threat", only to have them judge me again and strip my power again?

 

To me this represented that either the Jedi council is dumb or too wise for its own good. When they turned against me, I got pissed and my dialogues reflected that which I appreciated.

 

 

7) The Ending. I have a choice to "follow Revan", "return to exile" or go back to my friends (or something). None of which have any effect on the ending (I tried them all). Kreia talks about the "greater Sith threat" that Revan discovered and went off to fight -- aside from telling me why I can't talk to Reven in KotOR II, what does this accomplish? No matter what option is choosen, the ending is that of the Eban Hawk flying off alone into a nebula. How bloody anti-climatic... I got to see a fleet destroyed, the Star Forge destroyed and I got a medal in KotOR I. I get to see myself fly into a nebula for KotOR II.

 

That is your opinion but the ending gave me some satisfaction, something the original LS didn't. Kotor so far has mirrored the original trilogy in many ways.

 

 

Kreia... and the twisted thing at the end I think was supposed to be the plot... I'm just lost here. So, was all this about Kreia just getting the chance to kill everyone who crossed her?

 

Yes. It was all about her manipulations and as you were her pawn, you are in the center of it. This is why she was so protective of you.

 

Wasn't she trying to create some huge void in the force?

 

Again, yes. She effectively wanted to kill off the Force. Kreia says how she resents and despises the Force because It seems to have a will of It's own.

 

Something else suble I just noticed was that Darth Trayas lesson was one of betrayal. This not only applies to you and numerous other instances where Kreia is involved, but there is a dialogue with Kreia that asks her how she can use the Force if she hates it so. That seems to be the ultimate betrayal, killing the Force by wielding the Force.

 

Wasn't I bonded to her, and very uncertain about the effect he death would have (backed up by Atris' hint that Kreia is willing to kill herself to kill me to accomplish her goals)?

 

There is a Jedi master, the one with the mustache on Nar Shaada, whose dialogue suggests that the bond would not kill you. Indeed, since the Exile prevails in the end, it seems that Kreias suggestion that you would die is a lie.

 

 

I'm lost. The point of KotOR II seems to be a chance to see what a few folks from KotOR I are doing 10 years, see some of the effects the war had, with a bunch of quests and bad people to kill in order to make it last 40 hours.

 

Thats not what I was looking for in a sequel.

 

 

What exactly did I just save the galaxy from?

 

Now this is an interesting question! Directly, if you were LS, you tried to save the Jedi but failed. Indirectly, perhaps nothing.

 

In several dialogues about Revan, with Kreia and G0-T0, the fact is made clear that Revan did not want to destroy the Republic. He merely wanted the Jedi to die so that the Sith could take over and make the galaxy strong. Make it strong? To prepare it for what? That is the matter of intense speculation.

 

Now, if Revan was LS, you learn that he "remembered" something terrible he had done in his past and he left for parts unknown. At the end we learned he journeyed back to Malachor V and then left for the Outer Rim presumably to save it.

 

The whole point of Kotor2 to me seems very much like Empire Strikes Back, in that we learn that those who are evil are not entirely so and we also learn that there is a greater threat than that we had first believed.

[Darth Carth]

What exactly did I just save the galaxy from?

 

Now this is an interesting question!  Directly, if you were LS, you tried to save the Jedi but failed.  Indirectly, perhaps nothing. 

 

In several dialogues about Revan, with Kreia and G0-T0, the fact is made clear that Revan did not want to destroy the Republic.  He merely wanted the Jedi to die so that the Sith could take over and make the galaxy strong.  Make it strong?  To prepare it for what?  That is the matter of intense speculation.

 

Now, if Revan was LS, you learn that he "remembered" something terrible he had done in his past and he left for parts unknown.  At the end we learned he journeyed back to Malachor V and then left for the Outer Rim presumably to save it.

 

The whole point of Kotor2  to me seems very much like Empire Strikes Back, in that we learn that those who are evil are not entirely so and we also learn that there is a greater threat than that we had first believed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I rather liked the ending of the game (I was a LS jedi). It gave me enough information about the people/places I asked about (and I liked the reference to Boba Fett) without being too exhaustive.

 

As to what the galaxy was saved from, I think one thing was that it was saved from the fate that befell Visas' planet. If I'm not mistaken, during a discussion with either Visas or Kreia, there was mention that Nihilis' hunger would end up consuming all life. The galaxy was also saved from having the Force "die". If Kriea's plans would've come to fruition, then there would be no more Force users.

[mrtauntaun]

I felt a bit empty, but overall it wasn't too bad. I like the thought that my hero attempted to save the jedi, but in turn failed when they all died (dantooine, telos), I was LS Male.

As for the remote and GO-TO, I got myself to sleep by telling myself that when bao-dur did some work on GO-TO on the Ebon Hawk (cutscene), he programmed the droid not to further interfere with the remote.

So right when GO-TO was about to stop the remote from blowing up the planet, the remote got the last word so to speak.

Kinda of gives me the warm and fuzzies.

[sinister_sith]

but was darth nilihus a person or how was he created

[Jedi Master D Murda]

The point of Darth Nihilus in the story was he could easily defeat Kriea.  There is a movie that shows Kreia getting knocked down hard.  She narrates that there were disagreements and ambition amongst them.  Also, this is key, when Nihilus pushes her down, Kreia says there are techniques in the Force against which there is no defense. 

 

Since you have this wound and are a cipher to the Force, Darth Nihilus could not feed on you.  It is revealed that Darth Nihilus learned hunger, Sion pain, and Kreia betrayal.  During the conversation just prior to the fight on the Ravager bridge, there is an option that comes up that says something to the effect of "You will starve to death with me here."

 

Basically, you are a pawn to Kreia in order to defeat the other Sith Lords and to realize her ultimate ambition.  Also, everyone in the game is using you.

 

Agreed

 

 

 

There is a Jedi master, the one with the mustache on Nar Shaada, whose dialogue suggests that the bond would not kill you.  Indeed, since the Exile prevails in the end, it seems that Kreias suggestion that you would die is a lie.

 

From what someone else says the bond was to ensure the Exile's loyalty to Kreia. Sion never killed Kreia because even if he did the Exile would not die. That's why when you tell everyone about your bond they are not familiar with it. Kreia just used it as an excuse to keep you under her thumb.

[Darth Carth]

but was darth nilihus a person or how was he created

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Darth Nihilis is not really a person anymore. As his hunger consumed him, he became less and less of a human, his tripped out speech one of the results of his change.

[junior]

Its a key part of it.

 

One of the things that the Jedi Masters repeatedly tell you in your conversations with them is that the Exile was the ONLY Jedi to return to the Council after the Mandalorian War ended. Every other Jedi stayed with Revan.

[blackriderx]

The Jedi that remained with Revan were enemies of the republic, Sith, as far as the Jedi Council was concerned. According to Kreia the masters made the mistake of fearing the exile instead of learning from his/her actions.

[Kosiah]

My original Nihilus theory, after the "he's not a man anymore" conversation was that he was Malak's ghost. (He's a tall robed figure, after all, and under that mask in profile he doesnt seem to have a jaw)

 

Corny as that plot device would have been, I still think it would have added an interesting element.

 

In general, KoTOR2 seems less like a plot than a series of themes: ruminations on good and evil, petty evils, big bad evils, the futility of good. One thing I loved was the way the Mandalorian wars Were a focus, the way they were shown to scar the people who fought in them.

 

The Ravager, coming back torn and broken from the ruins of Malachor V, Darth Sion, Bao-Dur, and you, the Exile, all changed utterly by a war that your side (at least at the time) "won."

 

That is interesting. That's fascinating. I think they did a fair job of explaining Revan and Malak's fall to the Sith with that too, even if they did have to pull out the "evil ancient Sith Academy" card to fully justify it.

 

If I had any issue with the first KoTR, it was that the Republic was too noble and good (a few exceptions like Roland Wann aside), and that the Sith were too cartoonishly evil. So, I liked the ambiguity alot.

 

Where all of this breaks down for me though in KoTR2 are the simple things that should hold the plot together.

 

Okay, Revan runs off to fight an ancient evil. Alone. Yes, well, although that never works out, Jedi do that. It's dumb and hackneyed, but they do.

 

She (or he) leaves the Ebon Hawk with Kreia on Malachor V then? Or she just leave it on Malachor and Kreia takes it? What ship does Rev fly off in then? For some reason this bothers me. Or does she send Kreia after the Exile for some reason that I really can't make any sense of?

 

Moving right along...

 

Canderous mentions betraying the Republic at one point on the Ravager. However, this doesnt seem to ever happen. Phew--I would have been sad to see him and Carth at odds again. Still, why does he mention it? Is it just an opportunity to talk about the theme of the Mandalorian Empire being a better idea than the Republic? (Which admittedly, is interesting.)

 

The Exile wanders the Outer Rim and beyond for ten years. Then for some reason, she accepts a ride from the Harbringer. What does she think she's going to do? Why? What is her original motivation?

 

Coincidentally, the doomed crew come across the Ebon Hawk, who is under attack and manned by Kreia, T3, HK 47 (who may or may not be operational), and some other unnamed people who are dead.

 

Everyone on the Harbringer is killed, but foruntately, their trusty HK-50 protocol droid who is working for the Exchange (presumably, according to Go-To), saves the Exile by locking him or her in a closet. Good thnig Sith are dumb! *as we learned in kotr 1) Or did the Hk-50 come aboard with Kreia...? Hm, but that makes even less sense--unless he was part of some diabolical scheme of hers to make the exile feel like she needed help? (hoardes of Sith assassins presumably not doing enough to give that feeling?)

 

Possibly, Kreia uses the Exile to draw out the hidden members of the Jedi Council and kill them. Betray them. Ok, I can buy that.

 

And her plan works.

 

Meanwhile...the Republic, broken, shattered and corrupt, has everything staked on one fabulous PR plan: rebuild worlds shattered by war, and get Onderon (historically Such a nice place with no ancient evil artifacts or anything!!) to stay in the Republic. Without that, all is lost, despite those worlds not seeming to have any significant military or strategic importance. And never mind all those refugees on Nar Shadda either...

 

Moving right along...the threat against them. 3 Dark Lords of the Sith, 2 of whom choose to run around on battered starships killing Jedi. oooo scary.

 

For the Jedi.

 

But how is that a threat to the Republic?

 

This is explained in several long and rambling speeches about how important the Jedi are, and how the rest of the sentient population doesn't really matter. At the time, I assumed these speeches were supposed to be ironic, but since the plot depends on them I am not so sure.

 

I could go on and on...but maybe this is becoming a rant.

 

On the plus side, it all makes alot more sense than "Return of the Jedi" ever did.

[junior]

She (or he) leaves the Ebon Hawk with Kreia on Malachor V then? Or she just leave it on Malachor and Kreia takes it? What ship does Rev fly off in then? For some reason this bothers me. Or does she send Kreia after the Exile for some reason that I really can't make any sense of?

 

Moving right along...

 

The Exile wanders the Outer Rim and beyond for ten years. Then for some reason, she accepts a ride from the Harbringer. What does she think she's going to do? Why? What is her original motivation?

 

Coincidentally, the doomed crew come across the Ebon Hawk, who is under attack and manned by Kreia, T3, HK 47 (who may or may not be operational), and some other unnamed people who are dead.

 

Everyone on the Harbringer is killed, but foruntately, their trusty HK-50 protocol droid who is working for the Exchange (presumably, according to Go-To), saves the Exile by locking him or her in a closet. Good thnig Sith are dumb! *as we learned in kotr 1) Or did the Hk-50 come aboard with Kreia...? Hm, but that makes even less sense--unless he was part of some diabolical scheme of hers to make the exile feel like she needed help? (hoardes of Sith assassins presumably not doing enough to give that feeling?)

 

For the Jedi.

 

But how is that a threat to the Republic?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't remember ever seeing anything that explained how Kreia actually got back into the Republic. The first conversation with her gave me the impression that she was on board the Harbringer, although her presence on the Ebon Hawk would explain why Sion was attacking it. I think later on, she mentions that she only found the Exile by accident, and the context suggests that she was on the Harbringer. Finally, the Harbringer brought the Ebon Hawk into the hanger after locating it. Its unlikely that the Harbringer's crew would leave a supposed corpse inside the ship. They'd either move it somewhere it could be stored, or dispose of it. So chances are that Kreia was another passenger on board the Harbringer.

 

There's enough odd things about the start of the game that I never got overly concerned about just how she ended up playing dead on the floor of the Ebon Hawk. After all, HK-50 stole it, and he's locked in a storage closet. I suppose its possible that '50 decided to either investigate or cannabalize HK-47 (that's the same spot '47 is stored), and the door sealed behind '50.

 

I don't recall Goto ever stating that the HK-50s work for the Exchange. He's aware of them, but he doesn't know where they came from or why they're suddenly roaming about causing trouble.

[anakins revenge]

kotor2 is just a gonna get us ready for kotor3, although the underdeveloped sith lords was just depressing, in kotor3 they better have at the very least an episode3 type ending or a return of the jedi feel. U kno, somethin thatll let u kno that u accomploshed somethin on a grand scale