The All Things Political Topic - Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence

[rjshae]

Live updates: Pentagon says deploying Marines and National Guard to LA will cost $134 million

What you get with a president who treats everything as a battle is considerable wasted resources, whether lawyers, accountants, or military resources.

[Gromnir]

Exclusive: DHS secretary sought military arrests and drones in Los Angeles in leaked letter

 

this story should be getting far more attention. if the trump administration uses the military to conduct law enforcement operations, then you got a crossing the rubicon kinda event. am baffled that so many don't understand just how unprecedented this is.

“We need … support to our law enforcement officers and agents across Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), Customs and Border Protection (CBP), and Federal Protective Services (FPS),” Noem wrote, “as they defend against invasive, violent, insurrectionist mobs that seek to protect invaders and military aged males belonging to identified foreign terrorist organizations, and who seek to prevent the deportation of criminal aliens.”

for years we have been warning 'bout the questionable use o' the terrorist label to enhance punishments and reduce due process rights o' defendants, but the use o' the military to conduct arrets o' protesters on the grounds those protesters is supporting terrorism is not something we saw as likely until recent. today is kinda predictable that ice barbie would use "terrorist organizations" to legitimize what in 2015 woulda' been unthinkable to every republican US senator. imagine how @Guard Dogwoulda' reacted if jeh johnson, the secretary of DHS under obama, had invoked the hobgoblin of "terrorist organizations" to call up and use the marines to arrest and possible shoot protesters during the ferguson kerfuffle? 

personal, we had our eyes opened to the genuine danger o' trump when he proposed a muslim ban... and the crowd on hand cheered. the cheering crowds is what worried us. we knew something were wrong not just with trump, but with too many americans. ten years pass and am waiting for america to catch up to where we has been since 2015, but that just ain't happening. instead, many republicans such as lindsey graham and marco rubio, who knew trump were vile in 2016, now thinks trump authoritarianism is keen and folks like gd has decided that politics is just too much o' a bother to be worried 'bout the possibility o' marines shooting protesters on the streets of american cities.

so it goes

HA! Good Fun!

ps highly recommend the following sources for summaries o' the legal issues regarding the federalization o' the national guard and the surrounding issues:

“The Insurrection Act” by Any Other Name: Unpacking Trump’s Memorandum Authorizing Domestic Deployment of the Military

and there is likely no better source than steve vladeck when constitutional law and the military intersect. 

Edited June 10 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

More disappointing is that people cheer this rhetoric.  At his rally he promises to liberate LA, heh.  Apparently it was the cleanest most beautiful city a couple of decades ago, too.

Edited June 10 by Malcador

[Zoraptor]

"There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people."

[Gromnir]

in 2020 and 2021, we were confident most command officers would refuse to comply with illegal orders from a commander in chief... not all, but most. 

trump is an ignorant clown, but he knows how to measure and test weakness in people. am thinking the fort bragg campaign-style speech, delivered at this moment, were calculated. boiling the frog. 

[Hurlshort]

I don't post about politics very often, but I will say I love my state of California. The Trump administration has been lashing out at my state for the better part of a decade. It doesn't bother me, because I'm very comfortable in what California is. It's the 4th largest economy in the world. We have amazing cities, national parks, beaches, and mountains. We have incredible diversity. I can find a good restaurant/food truck for every imaginable cuisine. We have all the schools. I mean, just incredible universities that cover every possible field of study. 

So watching a sitting President attempt to wage war against my state is sickening. This is the same President that had no problem pardoning the people who stormed the Capitol building. He is actively working against the Governor. I'm at a loss. 

On Saturday Trump is staging a birthday parade that is going to look like North Korea.

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Hurlshort said:

On Saturday Trump is staging a birthday parade that is going to look like North Korea.

We can but hope a tank breaks down or something. 

[uuuhhii]

military budget are raised to 1 trillion

expecting any opposition from military is pointless

[rjshae]

Where's Tank Man when you need him?

[Gromnir]

Just now, rjshae said:

Where's Tank Man when you need him?

is arguable that tank man during trump 1.0, although far less dramatic, were mattis, kelly, esper, milley and to a lesser degree, mcmaster. 

Donald Trump called them 'my generals.' They call him a threat to democracy: ANALYSIS

READ: The Full Statement From Jim Mattis

trump were shocked that his his generals (and other former or current military officers such as esper) were the people in the administration who most aggressive resisted the subversion of Constitutional norms. unfortunate, the deference command officers is trained to afford civilian leadership meant that those generals had a difficult time public condemning the Commander in Chief, in spite o' the fact those military men were part o' the administration in a civilian capacity. mcmaster maybe gets a partial pass as he were technical still a general when serving as national security advisor to the President? am genuine sympathizing with milley as he were not serving in a civilian role during the trump years.

regardless, trump's romantic notions about tough guy generals and admirals who were complete loyal to him were crushed midway through his first term. thank goodness. who wouldn't feel safer today if mattis, kelly and milley were still in the white house/pentagon as trump contemplates sending US troops out to confront protesters.

tank guy ultimately didn't stop the chinese crackdown. converse, trump's generals were a bit more effective in their defense o' the Constitution even if their efforts were less obvious, although it is tragic that those same generals couldn't bring themselves to vocal condemn trump publicly when it mighta' made a difference. what if?

HA! Good Fun!

ps the white house lawyers, the actual fed government attorneys as 'posed to trump's personal attorneys, were also bulwarks against trump excesses, although they were constrained by law and ethics from public disclosing trump actions and conversations. for trump 2.0, the admin has perhaps managed to dig up a few more jeffery clarks in addition to the clowinsh appointments such as judge jeanine, alina habba and pam bondi? less cartoonish and perhaps more dangerous is the competent trump personal lawyers who now work within the doj: todd blanche; emil bove; susan necheles.

 

[BruceVC]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/anti-ice-protests-held-coast-coast-l-unrest-national-movement-grows-rcna211980

ICE protests are spreading across the country including GOP states, is the national guard going to be deployed in these states?

I doubt it but lets see if Trump is consistent 

 

[Gorgon]

[HoonDing]

They're literally pulling babies from mothers' arms

Where are the 2nd amendment people

[BruceVC]

https://america250.org/news/the-united-states-of-america-to-honor-the-250th-anniversary-of-the-u-s-army-with-a-grand-military-parade-and-celebration-in-washington-d-c/

Huge and important US military parade on Saturday, 250 years to celebrate 

I except  its going to be very well supported and it will be interesting to see the US military on display. Last time was in 1991

This is not about politics but rather the sacrifice and duty that the military and its personnel have made towards the country and its history. 

 

@rjshae @Gfted1 @kanisatha @ShadySands

I imagine you will be watching parts of it?

 

[Amentep]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

This is not about politics

LOL

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Amentep said:

LOL

But it is a 250 year celebration  of the US military 

Trump cant hijack that historical landmark and its significance 

 

[rjshae]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I imagine you will be watching parts of it?

Unlikely; he's got enough sycophants feeding his ego. I do think that repeated deployment of the US military to quell protests will not go over well. Unfortunately, we could  see a repeat of the Vietnam War era where our soldiers were disparaged. I'm not sure I'd want to join the military right now.

[Malcador]

3 hours ago, BruceVC said:

This is not about politics but rather the sacrifice and duty that the military and its personnel have made towards the country and its history. 

 

[Guard Dog]

@Gromnir"Ice Barbie" I am soooo stealing that. Having served in a Marine rifle platoon I can tell you for a fact putting them on an American street in front of a mob is a bad idea. This goes one of two ways. If the marines are armed a good number of the mob might end up dead. Thats bad. If they are not armed a number of the Marines end up dead. Neither outcome is acceptable so it's a weapons grade stupid idea to create the scenario. 

But we have a stupid government run by stupid people. Which would still be true even if the quarter landed the other way last November. 

Edited June 11 by Guard Dog

[ShadySands]

2 hours ago, Amentep said:

LOL

This.

[uuuhhii]

guess journalism is pretty dead

australia reporter intentionally shot by la police defend police on air

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

42 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

@Gromnir"Ice Barbie" I am soooo stealing that. Having served in a Marine rifle platoon I can tell you for a fact putting them on an American street in front of a mob is a bad idea. This goes one of two ways. If the marines are armed a good number of the mob might end up dead. Thats bad. If they are not armed a number of the Marines end up dead. Neither outcome is acceptable so it's a weapons grade stupid idea to create the scenario. 

But we have a stupid government run by stupid people. Which would still be true even if the quarter landed the other way last November. 

Look man, I'm no Kamala stan but I doubt she'd be sending in the Marines because ICE got yelled at in front of a Home Depot.

[Guard Dog]

34 minutes ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

Look man, I'm no Kamala stan but I doubt she'd be sending in the Marines because ICE got yelled at in front of a Home Depot.

Different stupid but just as stupid. 

[Gromnir]

24 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

But we have a stupid government run by stupid people. Which would still be true even if the quarter landed the other way last November. 

you just can't help yourself, can you?

...

there is no american shared reality. facts mean nothing. we had a comprehensive response, but it just ain't worth it. you didn't see a difference during trump 1.0 and you can't see the danger after the past five months of 2.0. if a President calling out the marines to confront protesters doesn't move you, then... 

am not surprised that you tenaciously embrace brobdingnagian false equivalency as a defense for your they are all bad mantra even after the deluge of unprecedented authoritarian and unconstitutional actions by trump, actions which has managed to shock even our self who predicted chaos and corruption.  no, am not surprised. however, am nevertheless genuine disappointed.  

[Malcador]

The solution is to practice selective annihilation of mayors and government officials, for example, to create a vacuum, then we fill that vacuum.