The All Things Political Topic - A conservative is someone who makes no changes and consults his grandmother when in doubt

[Gromnir]

13 minutes ago, Sarex said:

Again I will point you back to the start of the discussion, where a comparison was made and called on.

gaslighting. hurl responded with an extreme generalization to hoon's wacky western media take. then you brought up trump... and the kennedy conspiracy. let's keep honest.

but again, you missed the point. sure we criticize the moon hoaxers and their weird whataboutism, but we were also cautioning folks such as hurl who don't even notice anymore how wacky were hoon's initial take. am not sure what is hoon's motivation, but he clear wanted the discussion to shift from navalny to the evhul west. all hurl had to do is respond to hoon and then of course all the usual suspects jump in with their deflection, whataboutism and conspiracy theories-- it's an oft repeated pattern. what is terrible is that the pattern is so commonplace most people don't even notice.

also, you are kinda stretching on the mental health angle. claim a statement or position is crazy is hardly an accusation o' mental disease.

but here we are, not discussing navalny...

oh, and am s'posing you missed the irony, so...

29 minutes ago, Sarex said:

I am well aware of the deficiencies and wrong of the system around and near me and certainly don't need your warped view or help in understanding it.

am personal more open-minded. we see nothing wrong with sarex discussing the weaponized doj or whatever is his current kink, but trying to inject such stuff into the navalny topic were ludicrous... and the norm.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Zoraptor]

Sarex bro, why respond to people whose opinions are worthless.

I mean jesus christ, citing HoonDing as starting the discussion? Has he said anything seriously in his entire posting career- even going back through virumor/ Drudanae- in Off Topic? Maybe 1 in a 100, and that post very very obviously wasn't that 1.

5 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Nah,  its very obvious the differences in US presidents and their ideological  views  and then you can easily see the  differences  in their  geopolitical views

Doesn't really matter if Obama has a different geopolitical view from GWB though, if they end up doing the same things and the only difference is Obama looking mildly concerned. The difference between Torquemada setting someone on fire and me doing it is that Torquemada thinks God tells him to while I want to... make some smores, maybe? Torquemada's reason may sound better than general psychopathy, but God (morality) can tell him to do literally anything and he'll do so while thinking he's in the right and doing it for other people. For the poor bloke getting toasty the difference is zero and the actual justification is political, old Torquie's just convinced himself that it's moral.

Now, some might think comparing Torquemada to Obama is unfair, and I'd agree to an extent; but when it comes right down to it it doesn't matter if Obama had moral qualms about droning people half a world away on dodgy intelligence while Bush didn't because Bush Believed in the Inherent Goodness of the American Cause. Obama still did it anyway and even stepped up the program. Indeed, in some ways that would make Obama worse, not better, since he 'knows' what he's doing is wrong.

You'll get people saying that the neoliberal worldview is completely different and so much superior to the neoconservative one because it's all about helping the oppressed while neoconservative is all about changing the world to favour [the US, not even sure other countries have neocons] instead. The practicalities are that both worldviews are exactly the same in everything except the rhetorical aspects; ie it's only the justification that's different. If Torquemada sets someone on fire to save their soul that sounds better than me doing so so I can steal their gold but again, ain't no difference for the victim.

[Gromnir]

3 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Sarex bro, why respond to people whose opinions are worthless.

I mean jesus christ, citing HoonDing as starting the discussion? Has he said anything seriously in his entire posting career- even going back through virumor/ Drudanae- in Off Topic? Maybe 1 in a 100, and that post very very obviously wasn't that 1.

another irony immune poster? y'know, just 'cause you says "sarex," doesn't mean people can't see what post you were responding to.

*chuckle*

self owning as a habit.

and somebody still hasn't learned anything 'bout reflexive whataboutism and deflection... 'cause relevance or somesuch.

regardless, hurl literally quoted hoon's general west is bad post and then offered any equal generalized response, so the fact you don't think hoon posts should ever be taken serious is irrelevant-- hurl did indeed respond serious. you and sarex were quite capable o' seeing who hurl were responding to btw.

btw, hoon, as is his/her habit, did a drive-by post meant to elicit a response, so is hardly a shock somebody responded. also, it borders on willful obtuse not to have gleaned hoon's political leanings after so many years. his/her "jokes" clear skew in a very predictable direction. speaking from experience, is possible to provoke, joke and promote a particular perspective all in the same brief post, so again, you gotta be kinda obdurate to just dismiss all hoon posts as meaningless especial in the present context as you could see hurl's quote o' hoon.  

honest, what is with the gaslighting?

regardless, hoon probable is laughing as nobody is talking 'bout navalny or the wrongs which led to his poisoning, imprisonment and death. am expecting hoon wanted a reflexive west is bad tangent and he got it and then some.

even so, am gonna be satisfied if even one person is now more cautious in following the usual suspects on their whataboutism and deflection wild goose chases. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Edited February 18 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

12 hours ago, Sarex said:

There is a reason why generally the Russian's love Putin and the Chinese love Xi. If you take a look at where Russia and China were 20-ish years ago and where they are now, it's an drastic difference.

Hooray for Yeltsin.  Great legacy, although I guess the alternative might have been worse ?

2 hours ago, Sarex said:

I think it's pretty obvious who is mentally unwell on this forum, not taking any political or ideological leaning in to account

It's at least amusing to watch, sometimes.

Also, don't talk to masonry, folks

 

Edited February 18 by Malcador

[ShadySands]

Well, foreign policy remaining relatively static under previous administrations doesn't really reflect Trump's policy, if you can really call it as such. I mean, if you want more Russian and less US/Western influence, and I know some people who do*, then it's good for you but really Trump is too mercurial to have a policy beyond deferring to Russia and only caring about what you can do for him.

*MiL has friends who want Russia to control Eastern Europe so they can LARP the good old days of the USSR

[Sarex]

2 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Sarex bro, why respond to people whose opinions are worthless.

If he knows anything it's how to be irritating, I'll give him that.

40 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Hooray for Yeltsin.  Great legacy, although I guess the alternative might have been worse ?

Things can always be worse, just look at who Romania had, but they at least got some infrastructure out of it...

20 minutes ago, ShadySands said:

Well, foreign policy remaining relatively static under previous administrations doesn't really reflect Trump's policy, if you can really call it as such. I mean, if you want more Russian and less US/Western influence, and I know some people who do*, then it's good for you but really Trump is too mercurial to have a policy beyond deferring to Russia and only caring about what you can do for him.

At this point whichever option lets us not have WW3 is what I'm for, but sadly day by day it's becoming more and more obvious it's going to happen in my generations lifetime.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, ShadySands said:

*MiL has friends who want Russia to control Eastern Europe so they can LARP the good old days of the USSR

we spent time in russia and other soviet bloc nations just a couple years before the wall came down. we don't claim to know hearts and minds o' the russians in the late 80s-- russians we met were friendly but they were simultaneous reserved about anything other than surface interactions. pretend we know how russians in general felt about the ussr or what any individual genuine felt would be disingenuous. even so, we didn't feel any animosity from russians about americans or even america at that time, and...

am knowing this is gonna offend a few, but our trip to russia changed our pov a great deal 'cause it were different than we expected. no, people weren't freezing or starving like would be the case for too many a few years after the soviet union dissolved, but the russian people had so little and they were so envious o' what we had... and Gromnir were poor by american standards. store shelves were mostly empty and rare were anything other than the most basic staples were available. also, it felt  as if all o' russia had been transported three or more decades into the past 'cause access of regular people to basic modern technology were so limited. and again, we didn't get any sense o' animosity from the real people o' soviet nations during our visits. russians wanted to talk to us 'cause we were american, not just out of curiosity but 'cause they knew they were doing something dangerous... but just a small danger. were crazy black market kinda offerings we received for trivial items. am betting (conjecture) the main reason russians approached us to make such trades were not 'cause they wanted our nick-nacks, but 'cause they wanted to do something dangerous and illegal. in the smallest o' ways, they were standing up to the government by trading with us and perhaps saying something inappropriate.

...

we did get a battle flag from a soviet warship in trade for our backup walkman. we thought that were kinda ballsy o' the sailor we met, but perhaps it weren't. 

we liked russians. we felt compassion for their plight. 'course we weren't any less terrified o' nuclear apocalypse after leaving russia. in fact we were a smidge more afraid 'cause we could see just how close the ussr were to desperate measures. trying to maintain military parity with the west were impoverishing so many for so little. 

am getting how soviet era russians and eastern europeans might find it impossible to forget how bad their lives became after they lost the cold war. unlike after ww2, western nations didn't make an effort to rebuild russia as they did with germany and japan, although the situation were considerable different as russia weren't sacrificing their sovereignty after losing the cold war. 'cause the russian country side and cities hadn't been devastated, rebuilding weren't an easy sell in the west, but such myopia ignored just what a shambles were the russian economy-- different sorta annihilation. too many watched as western corporations and russian criminals destroyed what little were left o' the russina economy. as such am recognizing how russians never wanna go through the post cold war collapse again, but am similar not understanding why so many would see ye goode olde days o' the ussr as a positive alternative.

HA! Good Fun!

ps am having mentioned more than once on these boards, but the item we were asked to trade most frequent while in the ussr was condoms. were initial shocking to have people rando approach us asking for a condom trade. we coulda' lived like a king in russia for a year if we had a box o' condoms. take what you will from that reality.

Edited February 18 by Gromnir

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

ps am having mentioned more than once on these boards, but the item we were asked to trade most frequent while in the ussr was condoms. were initial shocking to have people rando approach us asking for a condom trade. we coulda' lived like a king in russia for a year if we had a box o' condoms. take what you will from that reality.

Classmates of mine in highschool went to Moscow in the early 80's for a week long trip (we were a "split" class, where some had French and some had Russian as language lessons). Their most popular items were jeans. Didn't matter that they were old and washed out, but genuine western jeans could buy anything. From sex to a 12 pack of moonshine vodka (large bottles, like 2 liter bottles, which of course there was no chance of bringing back to Denmark).

 

edit: our French teacher unfortunately ended up with health issues, so we never got to do the planned trip to France back then

[Gromnir]

21 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Classmates of mine in highschool went to Moscow in the early 80's for a week long trip (we were a "split" class, where some had French and some had Russian as language lessons). Their most popular items were jeans. Didn't matter that they were old and washed out, but genuine western jeans could buy anything. From sex to a 12 pack of moonshine vodka (large bottles, like 2 liter bottles, which of course there was no chance of bringing back to Denmark).

 

edit: our French teacher unfortunately ended up with health issues, so we never got to do the planned trip to France back then

we spent almost a whole year in barcelona, so france were an easy side trip. we made it to marseille at least a half dozen times and we even did a touristy stop in paris. 

we enjoyed france and am certain we woulda' liked it a whole lot more if it weren't for all the french people living there.

HA! Good Fun!

[bugarup]

6 hours ago, Gorth said:

edit: our French teacher unfortunately ended up with health issues, so we never got to do the planned trip to France back then

Lemme hazard a guess - he confiscated and, ah, utilized that 12 pack of moonshine?

8 hours ago, Gromnir said:

am getting how soviet era russians and eastern europeans might find it impossible to forget how bad their lives became after they lost the cold war. 

Obligatory "Not speaking for all Eastern Europeans blahdy-blah", but collapse of sovietistan was the best thing that happened to me in my entire life and I'd gladly go for loops of those really not as horrible as people think nineties if that was what required to never experience something like sovietistan again. 

[BruceVC]

6 hours ago, Gorth said:

Classmates of mine in highschool went to Moscow in the early 80's for a week long trip (we were a "split" class, where some had French and some had Russian as language lessons). Their most popular items were jeans. Didn't matter that they were old and washed out, but genuine western jeans could buy anything. From sex to a 12 pack of moonshine vodka (large bottles, like 2 liter bottles, which of course there was no chance of bringing back to Denmark).

 

edit: our French teacher unfortunately ended up with health issues, so we never got to do the planned trip to France back then

Gorthfusciuous !!! I dont want to hurt your  feelings and come across  as  rude but you not an anarchist anymore.  You just not, your work as a   Microsoft Dynamic\ERP consultant ....its like saying " Im a currency trader  at Barclays bank but I hate and reject the Capitalist system " 

You know Im  right, imagine how you would feel  if  the world  did collapse  into anarchy and chaos like a Yemen or Somalia  reality 

 

[BruceVC]

9 hours ago, ShadySands said:

Well, foreign policy remaining relatively static under previous administrations doesn't really reflect Trump's policy, if you can really call it as such. I mean, if you want more Russian and less US/Western influence, and I know some people who do*, then it's good for you but really Trump is too mercurial to have a policy beyond deferring to Russia and only caring about what you can do for him.

*MiL has friends who want Russia to control Eastern Europe so they can LARP the good old days of the USSR

But  you notice  most of  the people  shilling for the return of the  USSR  all live and benefit from  Western,  Capitalist Democracies  and none of  them will  emigrate to Russia now but they  " support  "the authoritarian reality of Russia  under  Putin 

And  one of reasons you find this unusual ideological inconsistency  is because of the design and nature of the Internet  and how we  use  it 

During the Cold War  there were  RL true believers   and committed ideologues  who not  only supported  Communism or Democracy   or Capitalism but they were  prepared  to  die for it and they fought in proxy wars throughout the world

But they really believed in the ideology and this was  reflected  in there  lived experiences and choices they made 

But nowadays you find people  cheerleading  on for Communism,  opposed  to Democracy  or being anti-US\West but its just  Internet and  keyboard outrage. It has nothing to do  with there  RL reality so they dont actually have to  do anything outside of  this  Internet outrage 

And it  doesnt really change anything unless you do something in RL  

 

 

 

 

 

[Gorth]

25 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Gorthfusciuous !!! I dont want to hurt your  feelings and come across  as  rude but you not an anarchist anymore.  You just not, your work as a   Microsoft Dynamic\ERP consultant ....its like saying " Im a currency trader  at Barclays bank but I hate and reject the Capitalist system " 

You know Im  right, imagine how you would feel  if  the world  did collapse  into anarchy and chaos like a Yemen or Somalia  reality 

 

What can I say? Working for the devil is profitable

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Gorth said:

What can I say? Working for the devil is profitable

But on a serious note  I do believe you are  sincere about your  concerns with big business and abuse that you see  with mining companies  in Oz  and other parts  of the world and I do think you believe in a fairer and better world

Im just saying I  dont  consider you an anarchist but thats  nots the same as  as me saying you are inconsistent with your general views  

 

[Hurlshort]

15 hours ago, Sarex said:

At this point whichever option lets us not have WW3 is what I'm for, but sadly day by day it's becoming more and more obvious it's going to happen in my generations lifetime.

Nah bro, the environmental disasters will catch up to us first, you don't have to worry about WW3.

Also I've learned to never quote Hoonding again. 

I found a picture of Gromnir from back in his Moscow days:

[Gfted1]

My sister visited the USSR back in the early 80's and has told me the same story as @Gorth, jeans were like gold, they would try to buy them off her body.

[ShadySands]

13 hours ago, BruceVC said:

snip

I'd probably just equate them to the people here in the States who also believe we had a glorious past that they want to return to rather than believing they are true ideologues. My mother-in-law is still friends with them and she says it's a rosy retrospective type scenario.

Edited February 19 by ShadySands

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

On 2/17/2024 at 1:57 PM, Zoraptor said:

Obviously I'd agree with that, personally. The disclaimer was more to avoid the- inevitable, as it turned out, ho hum- accusations of them being irrelevant since they aren't politicians while Navalny (/Trump/ Kennedy) are/ were.

I got you fam. It's worth noting that that quite a few political prisoners in the US were not politicians at the time of their incarceration and the reduction of "jailing/murdering political opposition" to mean only politicians is really flattening things.

On 2/18/2024 at 2:41 AM, Sarex said:

Considering how smoothly his death was glossed over, I personally would doubt that.

Eh, I think that those in power (bizness owners and the gubbermint) were more than happy to gliss it over even if they didn't do it personally.

21 hours ago, Sarex said:

I think it's pretty obvious who is mentally unwell on this forum

Real talk it's all of us. We're grown men who spend an inordinate amount of time on a niche gaming forum arguing about balance, that's not a sample size of people who are going to be particularly stable.

[Sarex]

3 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

My sister visited the USSR back in the early 80's and has told me the same story as @Gorth, jeans were like gold, they would try to buy them off her body.

I can confirm that too, same thing happened to my father. They pretty much wanted to buy everything he was wearing.

1 hour ago, PK htiw klaw eriF said:

Real talk it's all of us. We're grown men who spend an inordinate amount of time on a niche gaming forum arguing about balance, that's not a sample size of people who are going to be particularly stable.

It's all a spectrum. But it does matter where you fall on it.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

32 minutes ago, Sarex said:

It's all a spectrum. But it does matter where you fall on it.

So what you're saying is that insanity needs to be........balanced???????

[Gromnir]

4 hours ago, Hurlshort said:

 

I found a picture of Gromnir from back in his Moscow days:

late 80s Gromnir wished we had a suit that looked that good.

HA! Good Fun!

[Malcador]

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2024/2/18/man-confronts-neo-nazis-marching-in-nashville

 

 

Obviously BLM Antifa

[Gromnir]

Alabama Court Says IVF Embryos Are “Extrauterine Children” — And People Under The Law

not paywall link at huffpost

 

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

Alabama Court Says IVF Embryos Are “Extrauterine Children” — And People Under The Law

not paywall link at huffpost

 

Wouldn't it resolve itself when the people of Alabama become extinct?

[majestic]

18 hours ago, Sarex said:

It's all a spectrum. But it does matter where you fall on it.

People who use instead of the far superior fall on the very far end of the unstable part of the spectrum.