The All Things Political Topic - Politics is the entertainment division of the military industrial complex

[Malcador]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defense-minister-announces-complete-siege-of-gaza-no-power-food-or-fuel/

"“We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” he adds."

Lovely language.  Will be fun to see people adjust their spines accordingly when it's a cool kid doing wicked things.

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Malcador said:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/defense-minister-announces-complete-siege-of-gaza-no-power-food-or-fuel/

"“We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly,” he adds."

Lovely language.  Will be fun to see people adjust their spines accordingly when it's a cool kid doing wicked things.

Or maybe people could adjust there spines when a music festival is attacked by Hamas and hundreds of revelers are slaughtered, really appropriate target  

Those spines really need to be adjusted consistently 

 

[HoonDing]

Gotta love the irony of Zelenskiy trying to force his head up Netyahoo's arse.

[Lexx]

Crazy how many people say the attack was justified because Israel is bad.

[BruceVC]

7 minutes ago, Lexx said:

Crazy how many people say the attack was justified because Israel is bad.

Absolutely, the standard response from SA Hamas sympathizers is " but the Israelis have killed civilians " 

Today they had a Hamas spokesperson come on to one of the talk-shows and when he was asked "why did you target civilians " he said " no, every Israeli is a legitimate target. No such thing as civilians "

No surprise considering its a terrorist organization 

But the reality  is this conflict is going to continue until we see  leaders on both sides prepared to compromise and negotiate in good faith but thats lacking so the violence  will continue

 

 

[Gfted1]

4 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Today they had a Hamas spokesperson come on to one of the talk-shows and when he was asked "why did you target civilians " he said " no, every Israeli is a legitimate target. No such thing as civilians "

I think every single adult Israeli citizen is considered 100% on call for defense of the country, so not that far off. Considering their history, it seems ironic to me that Israel is now the oppressor and land stealer. We should completely cut off their funding.

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Gfted1 said:

I think every single adult Israeli citizen is considered 100% on call for defense of the country, so not that far off. Considering their history, it seems ironic to me that Israel is now the oppressor and land stealer. We should completely cut off their funding.

As  far as I know the Israelis have called up 300k of there reservists . But not every Israeli is  a soldier or reservist because its age based   and the festival had children. elderly people and people on holiday and Hamas indiscriminately killed anyone they could 

It was definitely not a legitimate target by any non-terrorist definition  

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Or maybe people could adjust there spines when a music festival is attacked by Hamas and hundreds of revelers are slaughtered, really appropriate target  

Those spines really need to be adjusted consistently 

 

Well yes that was my point, consistency is the thing. Already see people becoming near genocidal in response to this, which is amusing (as its impotent).   Doubt the IDF is going to turn Gaza into Homs or something regardless.

 

[Gfted1]

43 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

It was definitely not a legitimate target by any non-terrorist definition  

I dunno man. Evey single Palestinian child and elderly that gets gibbed during an illegal Israeli operation would disagree with you, if they could. Imo, Israel deserves it, and more. Just 78 years ago they were fighting an existential battle and now theyre perpetuating the same thing against the rightful owners of those lands. Smh, its disgusting that we support them.

[Keyrock]

Robert F Kennedy Jr. has left the authoritarian party and declared himself an independent for the 2024 presidential election.

Democrats crying "he's going to take votes away from Biden and hand the election to Trump" and republicans crying "he's going to take votes away from Trump and hand the election to Biden" in 5... 4... 3...

[BruceVC]

26 minutes ago, Keyrock said:

Robert F Kennedy Jr. has left the authoritarian party and declared himself an independent for the 2024 presidential election.

Democrats crying "he's going to take votes away from Biden and hand the election to Trump" and republicans crying "he's going to take votes away from Trump and hand the election to Biden" in 5... 4... 3...

But do you think either party wants people who will vote for him?

[Elerond]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Well yes that was my point, consistency is the thing. Already see people becoming near genocidal in response to this, which is amusing (as its impotent).   Doubt the IDF is going to turn Gaza into Homs or something regardless.

 

There needs to happen miracle, in order to avoid absolute tragedy. But I am not sure that such miracle is showing up.

Israel's current government is hardcore zionists and they got in power by promising security, but now deadliest attack in Israel's modern history has happened and it targeted primary civilians. So they most likely use more harsher methods than needed in order to save their faces.

Gaza has been controlled by Hamas now for 16 years, and they are extremist whose main goal is destruction of Israel and killing all the jews. So there is high likelihood that they will pour more fuel in the flames.

And forces that could put some restrictions in conflict have their own issues that hinder quite lot how much effort they will put in

UN has failed for long time get any meaningful resolutions because there never seems to be any unity in world anymore

Ukraine war has eaten lot of resources and will to prevent conflicts. 

In many European countries far right parties that most likely will not put any effort to prevent mass killing of Muslims, have won most recent elections.

USA is divided and its governance is paralyzed and they usually by default support anything that Israel does.

Iran is flexing its muscles when no one is looking because of other conflicts.

Russia and China have their own agendas that benefit from conflict that draws world eyes aways from them.

Turkey wants to be leader of muslim world, but also has its own internal issues and they usually don't want vex USA in Israel questions. 

Saudi Arabia does not have much love towards Palestine as they are too chummy with Iran

 

So we can only hope that extremist leaderships of Israel and Palestine will see reason even though they have seek destruction of each other for long time.

[HoonDing]

If the democrats are the "authoritarians", what does make the republicans?

[Keyrock]

57 minutes ago, HoonDing said:

If the democrats are the "authoritarians", what does make the republicans?

Whereas the democrats (at least outwardly) seem like a party in unison, even people like AOC whose entire appeal was that she was supposed to shake up the party and challenge the establishment, have bent the knee and fallen in line. The republican party is a party in flux, Trump's victory in 2016 really shook the party up, both for better and for worse. You have those trying to bring the republican party back to what it was before Trump, the Bush/Cheney neocon type republicans. You have bible thumping, old skool traditional family values types, and you have some republicans riding the populist wave, or at least presenting themselves as such. I don't know how genuine they are, but they are filling the vacuum created when the democrats abandoned the working class.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Keyrock

[Gromnir]

14 minutes ago, Keyrock said:

Whereas the democrats (at least outwardly) seem like a party in unison

stopped reading here. whether serious or not, am recognizing a gag post for what it is.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Hurlshort]

5 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

stopped reading here. whether serious or not, am recognizing a gag post for what it is.

HA! Good Fun!

 

But it ends with such a zinger!

I'll never understand how the working class can think Republicans represent their interest any better than dems. Heck, Biden actually showed up on the picket line recently. I can't imagine Trump siding with a union in any universe.

[Keyrock]

25 minutes ago, Hurlshort said:

Heck, Biden actually showed up on the picket line recently.

WOW! He was there for like 5 minutes for a photo op. Whooptie ****ing do! What a hero! Yeah, the authoritarians still occasionally pay lip service to the values they used to represent decades ago, still pretend like they care about the working class, but their actions paint a very different picture.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news-politics/heirs-property-black-owned-land-brazos-county/

Not necessarily political and a long read full of some legalese, but it's well worth a read.

[Gromnir]

37 minutes ago, Hurlshort said:

 

I'll never understand how the working class can think Republicans represent their interest any better than dems. 

desperation?

the gop doesn't have a platform at present. they are a party of outrage and grievance. current republicans is not for anything, but they are against a whole lot. it is much easier to be against something than it is to come up with plans to fix problems which has persisted and become worse over decades of time. implementing those solutions successful is even more difficult and politically hazardous. the thing is, since at least ww2, americans has demanded results far more than they has been concerned with ideology or political performance theatre. sure, maybe you get elected on impossible promises, but if you don't deliver, americans will turn on you... fast. however, in 2023, the republican party leader is a demagogue, something aberrational in US politics for a long time. counter-intuitive and unreasonable the working class doesn't even expect results. they want the gop to fight the authoritarian dems, crt, the rainbow flag and mask recommendations. trying to figure out the crazy o' the gop is less difficult if you recognize that their goal is to look like they are fighting. 

is kinda bizarre, but fixing working class problems actual hurts the gop. the only reason the gop appeals to the working class is 'cause those folks is suffering and are angry, so a nonsense platform o' outrage and grievance is effective. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Gromnir

[Bartimaeus]

Yeah, it doesn't seem to matter if the very little that Republicans want to do (and there really is not much they seem to want to specifically accomplish, which is not surprising for a party that does not currently have any clearly defined platform besides some "we hate x, y, and z" bullet points...and also we love guns) is actually completely counterproductive to helping the people suffering the most, the point is to make those voters identify with you and have them feel like they belong and that their grievances are legitimate and perhaps that they even accomplished something important by voting you in. Whether they believe genuine problems will be solved, or if it's just stemming the tide of evil, hurting the "right" people, ending 'wokeness' or some other kind of lunacy - it doesn't really matter, not so long as they tie feeling better about their life and the state of the world to their side winning. That's a very strong and rather intangible feeling that's hard to quantify or argue against, so no surprise that there's not a lot of movement among the believers no matter how objectively laughable the results were under Trump and Republicans.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Bartimaeus

[Gorth]

4 hours ago, Hurlshort said:

But it ends with such a zinger!

I'll never understand how the working class can think Republicans represent their interest any better than dems. Heck, Biden actually showed up on the picket line recently. I can't imagine Trump siding with a union in any universe.

This is obviously an outsiders perspective (i.e. worth effectively nothing), so the perspective is skewed though whatever media you follow a country's internal happenings, but I don't think the US working class ever had any representation in Washington. The Democrats are there to represent corporate interests, taking care of their donors and major shareholders, investors, big business etc. The Republicans are there to represent the church, the country side and Florida Glades or some such, trying to get the country back to 1861 in all aspects. Both parties of course pay lip service and token gesture handouts to the middle class, even though the latter really only matters as consumers and has no other significant economic or political clout. Such a bummer they have a vote each. Never mind the working class, they are all filthy commies after all, so losing all the jobs by outsourcing them (the jobs) to China as just an added bonus, even if neither party says it out loud. Communist jobs belongs in communist countries...

[BruceVC]

7 hours ago, Keyrock said:

WOW! He was there for like 5 minutes for a photo op. Whooptie ****ing do! What a hero! Yeah, the authoritarians still occasionally pay lip service to the values they used to represent decades ago, still pretend like they care about the working class, but their actions paint a very different picture.

I tend to agree, the suggestion that because Biden showed up for a photo op and said " I stand by the unions " is definitely not any convincing argument that he cares about the working class 

But I think both parties care about the working class in there own way  because they represent potential votes and they contribute towards the economy so it would imprudent to ignore them in any country and Democracy

So the real question is what legislation would you like to see that would demonstrate either party " cares". Because then we would be  discussing political  changes that people can campaign on?

For example better access to loans for housing?

[Sarex]

https://bnn.network/world/israel/chechen-leader-kadyrov-proposes-peacekeeping-mission-in-palestine-amid-arab-israeli-conflict/

[Hurlshort]

15 hours ago, Keyrock said:

WOW! He was there for like 5 minutes for a photo op. Whooptie ****ing do! What a hero! Yeah, the authoritarians still occasionally pay lip service to the values they used to represent decades ago, still pretend like they care about the working class, but their actions paint a very different picture.

It is a big deal. An active sitting president showed up at a picket line. That gives the UAW a tremendous card (maybe not a trump card) in negotiations. This whole statement seems dismissive of the picket line as an important part of the labor rights process. If you have been sitting on the picket line for a month and the President of the country shows up in support, it's a pretty big deal to you.

[Malcador]

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/israel-war-hamas-terrorism-ukraine-russia/675590/

Not sure we're really headed for an era of open brutality. Not sure we left it all that much really