Ukraine Conflict - conflict continues

[HoonDing]

"Kashmir ? Nigeria?  The West only cares about the "relatively civilized" places. "

The 22nd century belongs to India and Africa

[Gfted1]

The US needs to keep India close to our bosom. Were going to need those 1B to storm China from the West side whenever this whole thing kicks off.

[Amentep]

Old thread - 

 

[BruceVC]

https://www.news24.com/news24/southafrica/news/developing-dispatches-from-ukraine-news24-joins-ramaphosa-peace-delegation-on-the-ground-20230615#:~:text=WARSAW 

 

The SA plane carrying our president and lots of security staff  and journalists is stuck at Warsaw airport for some sort of legal\arms  infringement. This is part of the peace mission to go to Ukraine and Russia....its off to a great start  

[BruceVC]

Okay exciting update, our president has arrived in Ukraine !!!!

Only SA journalists and most of his security personnel are detained in Poland. But our media is so uniformed about the war. They asking " but is he going to be safe in Kiev without his 100+ security "  

They clearly dont understand the nature of the war because no amount of onground security personnel is going to stop a Ruskie missile...the SA media probably thinks there are ongoing battles within Kiev like Bakhmut ?

[Malcador]

Biden and everyone else travels with no security there, after all.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Biden and everyone else travels with no security there, after all.

US  vs SA president 

Very similar around travel  security, you right 

But its expected to have a small security team if you the SA president. He didnt need dozens of people and apparently there were over 100 people on the plane counting the SA media 

 

[Mamoulian War]

And Russia has launched 12 missiles (including 6 Kizhals) on Kyiv as a welcome committee to African leaders

https://www.reuters.com/world/south-african-president-arrives-ukraine-peace-mission-2023-06-16/

[BruceVC]

13 minutes ago, Mamoulian War said:

And Russia has launched 12 missiles (including 6 Kizhals) on Kyiv as a welcome committee to African leaders

https://www.reuters.com/world/south-african-president-arrives-ukraine-peace-mission-2023-06-16/

I am surprised they did this the Ruskies...so much for BRICS friendship 

[BruceVC]

I was just listening to something on the local SA media about this, people are saying  Poland grounded the plane because they worried it may have weapons and military equipment bound for Russia like the allegations of the Russian ship

I find it hard to believe  anyone would seriously think that the plane carrying our president would also be smuggling weapons to Russia 

It sounds ridiculous considering the furore the ship incident caused 

[Malcador]

48 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

US  vs SA president 

Very similar around travel  security, you right 

But its expected to have a small security team if you the SA president. He didnt need dozens of people and apparently there were over 100 people on the plane counting the SA media 

 

I don't know if it's expected to have a small one, dozens of security people doesn't sound too striking - but dozens can be 2 or 6.  Does sound like a mess of a trip though, didn't get clearance through Italian airspace

 

17 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I was just listening to something on the local SA media about this, people are saying  Poland grounded the plane because they worried it may have weapons and military equipment bound for Russia like the allegations of the Russian ship

I find it hard to believe  anyone would seriously think that the plane carrying our president would also be smuggling weapons to Russia 

It sounds ridiculous considering the furore the ship incident caused 

Okay, just the Poles being **** as I suspected.

[BruceVC]

4 minutes ago, Malcador said:

I don't know if it's expected to have a small one, dozens of security people doesn't sound too striking - but dozens can be 2 or 6.  Does sound like a mess of a trip though, didn't get clearance through Italian airspace

 

Okay, just the Poles being **** as I suspected.

Our president has been to Kiev now and they went to Bucha to see the massacre of civilians 

And then he is off to St Pietersburg to see Putin, so he wasnt really delayed in Poland. But the SA  journalists are still stuck on the plane and they really upset. I feel sorry for them but they getting Burger King for free so its not all bad 

 

[HoonDing]

It's Eastern Europe

any non-white person entering their country is a national emergency

[Zoraptor]

Europe: I don't understand why the 'Global South' hates us. We stand for the Rules Based Order!

Also Europe: Vienna Convention doesn't apply to Africans or South Americans.

[Keyrock]

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I feel sorry for them but they getting Burger King for free so its not all bad 

Have you been to Burger King? It's pretty f'n bad.

[Elerond]

South Africa has never signed or ratified Vienna Convention

Edited June 16, 2023 by Elerond

[Zoraptor]

Heh, too many Vienna Conventions I think, and that's only the ones from the 1960s.

The relevant treaty is the VC on Diplomatic Relations (which has been signed by everyone except South Sudan and Palau and is probably the cornerstone of international diplomatic law) not the VC on the Law of Treaties, which RSA and a decent number of other countries hasn't signed.

(not being entirely serious anyway, but I'd suspect that it would be more relevant that Poland, and Spain previous for Morales, had signed even if RSA hadn't)

Edited June 17, 2023 by Zoraptor

[BruceVC]

I watched most of the Q&A with the African leaders and Zelensky and I thought they did a good job at explaining what the peace mission is about considering the circumstances 

They came across as very empathetic to what is happening in Ukraine but I dont think this mission is going to achieve much but its well meaning with good intentions and at least Africa is trying because this war has a direct economic impact to several African countries 

[pmp10]

Something interesting I missed recently:
Some 20+ Azov members are to be tried in Russia including PoWs from Mariupol.

Good indication that Russia is loosing interest in any settlement.

[HoonDing]

Africa and India will never abandon Russia.

[Lexx]

On 6/16/2023 at 10:06 AM, BruceVC said:

https://www.news24.com/news24/southafrica/news/developing-dispatches-from-ukraine-news24-joins-ramaphosa-peace-delegation-on-the-ground-20230615#:~:text=WARSAW 

 

The SA plane carrying our president and lots of security staff  and journalists is stuck at Warsaw airport for some sort of legal\arms  infringement. This is part of the peace mission to go to Ukraine and Russia....its off to a great start  

Not just security staff. Apparently there also have been 12 crates of weapons. No clue wtf they were trying to do with all the "security guards"(?) and extra weapons.

 

[BruceVC]

6 minutes ago, Lexx said:

Not just security staff. Apparently there also have been 12 crates of weapons. No clue wtf they were trying to do with all the "security guards"(?) and extra weapons.

 

I agree and the general consensus in SA is the security people didnt submit or register the proper paperwork for all those weapons

So I dont blame the Polish response because our credibility is also in question after the Russian ship incident which has been classified 

As I said several times, when its comes to many of our foreign affairs decisions we are our own worst enemy 

 

[bugarup]

And now, some news from Mordor. This is from recent "international" (LOL) economics forum of St. Peterburg or some such. Black-yellow-white is old flag of russian empire, until now used mostly by ultra-nationalist radical trash, but here it officially is, right next to the soviet empire's flag. Very symbolic and would be funny if not for deaths of hundreds of thousands Ukrainians caused by ambitions of those imbeciles dreaming of imperial glory.

[xzar_monty]

On 6/16/2023 at 11:01 PM, Zoraptor said:

Europe: I don't understand why the 'Global South' hates us. We stand for the Rules Based Order!

Also Europe: Vienna Convention doesn't apply to Africans or South Americans.

Just out of curiosity, but also completely in earnest: is there an entity (a country, a major organization, whatever) on the international political scene that matters at least a bit and that you do respect?

Incidentally, this is in no way to deny the self-contradictory positions that Europe does indeed often take. But it's a bit like the history I have with one of the major critics over here; he often writes remarkably well, but he's also spiky almost to the point of being savage, and I sometimes think it would be marvelous to see him like something for a change.

[xzar_monty]

This is, again, interesting. I have referenced to this in an earlier iteration of this thread, but it's fascinating enough (in my view) to bring up again: there appears to something oddly scatological in the Russian way of living -- or at least in the way Russian (soldiers) conduct themselves (abroad). In the early 2000s, I worked in a project dealing with the aftermath of the war in Chechnya, and one of the big surprises for me was the extent to which the presence of Russian soldiers was marked by, yes, shít. In tremendous abundance and in places you wouldn't ordinarily expect to find it in your average household. There have been numerous reports of the same in Ukraine: messages written on walls with someone's hefty number two as the writing material, piles of big businesses in kitchens, living rooms, etc., you name it. I find it very odd: it is almost impossible that all of the soiling could happen right before the troops leave, so do the soldiers just happily live in a dunged-up house? Do soldiers gather together for a good ol' group-cráp, or does the fouling of a room take place incrementally, and if so, what does the provider of the 15th pile of ordure in a living room think while on the job with the 14 already there? I'd like to, and wouldn't like to, know the answers to some of the questions like this. It's very strange.

I have sometimes wondered if there's an unspeakably nasty hidden side to the bodily cleanliness (in many respects) of the Arab culture, and I suppose I must also wonder whether there's a remarkably well hidden clean side to this aspect of the Russian culture.