What We Know & What We Can Reasonably Suspect

[the_dog_days]

What we know:

1) Takes place in the Living Lands.

2) New player character.

3) Only human or elf.

4) We work for Aedyr.

5) No co-op.

6) There are companions, you can have two of them with you at a time, and they are mandatory.

7) Lots of factions from the previous games (flags in trailer).

8 ) We will meet some familiar faces from Deadfire.

9) No classes (at least for the player character).

10) We're not playing a Watcher.

11) The original CGI trailer focused on scope of the narrative.

12) The gameplay trailer focused on player power fantasy.

11) In 2021 there were rumors that the project had been rebooted.

Deep Fan Zone:

12) Deadfire ended on an apocalyptic cliffhanger.

 

What we can reasonably suspect:

1) Takes place either in between the Pillars games or after Deadfire. Why*: Elves and other races in Eora don't have magically extended**, super long lives like in other fantasy settings. That and the fact that they picked familiar faces specifically from Deadfire means that in all likelihood this is the timeframe the game takes place in.

2) Co-op was likely scrapped as part of the reboot from a few years ago. Why: Both leaks happened around the same time and it was rumored that Obsidian decided to cut back on the scope and just make a really good Obsidian game and they've never been known for their co-op games (yes, Grounded is really good but it's not their signature genre).

Deep Fan Zone:

3) Their original idea was Avowed would be Pillars3-at-home. Why: There was supposed to be a POE3. Deadfire's apocalyptic cliffhanger deliberately left the door open for one more Watcher game, but initially Deadfire was considered a financial failure. Josh Sawyer as since come out and said that Deadfire's done pretty darn good over the long haul. The reboot coincides with around the time that Deadfire had turned the corner and now started to earn Obsidian a real profit. This would imply that originally Avowed was meant to sidestep the Watcher's story, present a new player character in a new series to finish the Watcher's story.

4) Avowed is no longer Pillars 3 by proxy. Why: The original CGI trailer had all this Woedica imagery and the voice over focused on 'we', the nation of Aedyr. This implies the original idea involved wars, gods, the conquest of nations, and the narrative scope was huge. The gameplay trailer focused on player power fantasy (they say 'you' 11 times in 9 sentences). The smaller scope and focus is obvious. Also, the Pillars games never sold themselves on power fantasy. It was a part of the games and the marketing, but they always focused on the lore, the world, the stories, and player choice.

5) There's real hope now of a Pillars of Eternity 3.

 

*'Why' as in, why do we suspect this. I didn't want to have to type it out every time.

**Correction: elves can live up-to 300 years old and dwarves and live up-to 190.

Edited June 16, 2023 by the_dog_days

[Wormerine]

3 hours ago, the_dog_days said:

3) Their original idea was Avowed would be Pillars3-at-home. Why: There was supposed to be a POE3. Deadfire's apocalyptic cliffhanger deliberately left the door open for one more Watcher game, but initially Deadfire was considered a financial failure.

I find this assumption to be very questionable. It assumes that Avowed was the reaction to Deadfire underperforming, and that it wouldn't happen if Deadfire was smashing success outright. Eora is Obsidian's own universe and there was always interest in expanding it into other project. Josh Sawyer was mentioning a tactical combat game in the universe. I remember Feargus Urquhart talking about Skyrim in Pillars when Deadfire was being crowdfunded, but quick google revealed he was interested in that even earlier. This interview is from 2013, long before Pillars of Eternity was even released:

What I'm trying to figure out is, how could we make something that is more like a Skyrim for PC

3 hours ago, the_dog_days said:

 Deadfire's apocalyptic cliffhanger deliberately left the door open for one more Watcher game

Deadfire sets something up alright, but I also disagree that it sets up another Watcher story. If anything, if Avowed in some for was always planned to be made after PoE2, the ending of Deadfire would make much more sense to me. After all Eothas exposes the big secret to the world and that makes for a great starting point for a different protagonist to be brought up to speed. Hmmm... Woedica's pawn being sent to Living Lands to investigate a misterous soul plague. I am sure it has absolutely nothing to do with

the reincarnation cycle being broken

.

[the_dog_days]

36 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

Deadfire sets something up alright, but I also disagree that it sets up another Watcher story.

Whoever has to clean up now has to 1) know how everyone thinks the world works, 2) know how the world really works, & 3) have an emotional connection to the situation. The Watcher has all three. There's no need, and indeed it would feel forced to create a new character to fulfil all those requirements. You have a character in the bag, you don't need to spend an entire game on exposition to fill in the blanks, and they're ready to roll. It only makes sense that it would be the Watcher.

[Wormerine]

34 minutes ago, the_dog_days said:

Whoever has to clean up now has to 1) know how everyone thinks the world works, 2) know how the world really works, & 3) have an emotional connection to the situation.

So far Watcher has been powerless to do anything and the world has been shaped by forces more powerful than any individual. Giving player major adjency over "fixing" the situation would mean the end of progressing the world. I think, whoever we will play as, we might have just as much as in how we are going to fix the world, as we did on how we broke it.

The only thing in favour of Watcher is him knowing the secret, and that secret might not be very secret very soon, if Eotha's plan succeeds as he hoped. After all he wanted the kith as a whole to figure out the way forward not just the Watcher.

Yezuha and its singular God, however, is the big unknown with a lot of questions, and possibly some answers. Watcher could go there. He could also not.

Am I the only one who felt like Watcher's presence in PoE2 was completely unnecessary? I felt that if we had someone with personal stake in Deadfire the whole thing would work much better. Afterall, Herald of Berath pretty much overridden our identity at this point.

[the_dog_days]

17 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

The only thing in favour of Watcher is him knowing the secret, and that secret might not be very secret very soon, if Eotha's plan succeeds as he hoped.

The biggest advantage of using the Watcher is not having to spend 60 hours in a 100 hour game on exposition to explain the state of the world. Put the Watcher in and slapping a '3' on there eliminates that problem. Trying to get new players up to speed while cramming exposition from 2 previous games down their throats is only going to result in an unsatisfying experience for everyone.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Wormerine said:

Am I the only one who felt like Watcher's presence in PoE2 was completely unnecessary?

I don't know if you're the only one, but I'm not sure I agree. Since none of us have been able to play part 3, we can only speculate as to where the story was going, but I suspect that there were still more revelations about the Watcher to come.

[mtp403]

11 hours ago, the_dog_days said:

4) We work for Aedyr.

We INITIALLY work for the Aderyan Empire.  Given that many of the kith seen attacking the PC in the trailer appeared to be aligned with AE, it certainly is conceivable that you can "turncoat."

11 hours ago, the_dog_days said:

7) Lots of factions from the previous games (flags in trailer).

I know of only 3 flags, I don't know if that counts as "lots."

1. Aderyan Empire is frequent and obvious
2. Similar to White March, would suggest something Durgan's Battery related or (what I deem to be more likely) another colony/community of Pargrunen
3. 3 white inverted crescents in a triangular formation, I have not been able to place this

11 hours ago, the_dog_days said:

1) Takes place either in between the Pillars games or after Deadfire. Why*: Elves and other races in Eora don't have magically extended, super long lives like in other fantasy settings. That and the fact that they picked familiar faces specifically from Deadfire means that in all likelihood this is the timeframe the game takes place in.

Not sure I agree.  Now, nothing you said is technically wrong, I just don't think your reasoning covered all your bases: The Circle of Archmagi contains a number of very longlived individuals and several of them had major supporting roles in Deadfire.  What about intelligent and longlived creatures such as Scyorielaphas?  Not saying any of those have to be the case, just pointing out the gaps in the logic.

11 hours ago, the_dog_days said:

2) Co-op was likely scrapped as part of the reboot from a few years ago. Why: Both leaks happened around the same time and it was rumored that Obsidian decided to cut back on the scope and just make a really good Obsidian game and they've never been known for their co-op games (yes, Grounded is really good but it's not their signature genre).

Deep Fan Zone:

3) Their original idea was Avowed would be Pillars3-at-home. Why: There was supposed to be a POE3. Deadfire's apocalyptic cliffhanger deliberately left the door open for one more Watcher game, but initially Deadfire was considered a financial failure. Josh Sawyer as since come out and said that Deadfire's done pretty darn good over the long haul. The reboot coincides with around the time that Deadfire had turned the corner and now started to earn Obsidian a real profit. This would imply that originally Avowed was meant to sidestep the Watcher's story, present a new player character in a new series to finish the Watcher's story.

4) Avowed is no longer Pillars 3 by proxy. Why: The original CGI trailer had all this Woedica imagery and the voice over focused on 'we', the nation of Aedyr. This implies the original idea involved wars, gods, the conquest of nations, and the narrative scope was huge. The gameplay trailer focused on player power fantasy (they say 'you' 11 times in 9 sentences). The smaller scope and focus is obvious. Also, the Pillars games never sold themselves on power fantasy. It was a part of the games and the marketing, but they always focused on the lore, the world, the stories, and player choice.

I think you personally wouldn't be beyond the pale to speculate that these might be the case...but I also don't think that makes them "reasonable suspicions."

11 hours ago, the_dog_days said:

5) There's real hope now of a Pillars of Eternity 3.

I'm hardly as assured of this as you are, but I'll cross my fingers regardless.

[uuuhhii]

aedyr are pretty boring

not sure if they become a major part of the story would work anywhere near as much as the vailian and rauatai

living land part would be interesting

didn't elf already have much longer life than other kith

where is this come from

[the_dog_days]

2 hours ago, uuuhhii said:

didn't elf already have much longer life than other kith

According to lore elves are lucky to get 110 years in the same way humans are lucky to get 90.

[uuuhhii]

26 minutes ago, the_dog_days said:

According to lore elves are lucky to get 110 years in the same way humans are lucky to get 90.

aloth are 62 and have the youngest face of all companion

that is more than good enough

poe table top also say folk are very old at 80 elf are very old at 250

Edited June 15, 2023 by uuuhhii

[Icesong]

6 hours ago, the_dog_days said:

According to lore elves are lucky to get 110 years in the same way humans are lucky to get 90.

You might know more than me and I'm operating on retconned lore, but the PoE1 manual says wood elves live 200 minimum:

Wood elves cover most of the western continent shared with the Aedyr Empire. In some pre-historical era, a large number of them migrated across the sea to Eir Glanfath. Today’s Glanfathan elves are physiologically identical to those from Aedyr, but share no culture in common. Their natural lifespan is typically 200-310 years.

[the_dog_days]

5 hours ago, Icesong said:

You might know more than me and I'm operating on retconned lore, but the PoE1 manual says wood elves live 200 minimum:

Wood elves cover most of the western continent shared with the Aedyr Empire. In some pre-historical era, a large number of them migrated across the sea to Eir Glanfath. Today’s Glanfathan elves are physiologically identical to those from Aedyr, but share no culture in common. Their natural lifespan is typically 200-310 years.

You're right. I was using my POE1 guide book and it doesn't list elf lifespans and for some reason I remembered it being the same as humans, similar to orlans and aumaua. Dwarves also have a longer lifespan. I still think it's set around or just after Deadfire. The prequel talk has all been rumor.

Edited June 16, 2023 by the_dog_days

[mtp403]

34 minutes ago, the_dog_days said:

The prequel talk has all been rumor.

So has the "set around or just after Deadfire" talk.

[the_dog_days]

On 6/14/2023 at 10:01 PM, mtp403 said:

Now, nothing you said is technically wrong, I just don't think your reasoning covered all your bases: The Circle of Archmagi contains a number of very longlived individuals and several of them had major supporting roles in Deadfire.  What about intelligent and longlived creatures such as Scyorielaphas?

If we really want to play this game then the Devil of Caroc is technically immortal and the game could just as well be set 20 thousand years into the future. At this point we've both said our piece and disagree.

[mtp403]

22 hours ago, the_dog_days said:

If we really want to play this game then the Devil of Caroc is technically immortal and the game could just as well be set 20 thousand years into the future. At this point we've both said our piece and disagree.

Pretty sure Devil [PoE1 spoilers]

Spoiler

dies in the slides no matter what you do (falls into the sea and rusts or gets the Geralt treatment).

But, yes that would have been another example.  To be clear, I am aware we disagree, but that is not my intent.  I'm simply indicating that if you are going to label something as "what we can reasonably suspect" then you probably ought make it so its not so easy to punch holes through.  If you had simply been expressing your hopes for the project than we likely wouldn't be here.

[Wormerine]

I don't think OP assumption regarding the time frame is fair. I would even go so far to say it is likely to take place after Deadfire. From what the interview said there will be returning characters and Deadfire specifically. I don't think there are many characters in Deadfire who would likely to have past adventures in the Living Lands, and just that it was mentioned by Carrie suggests to me a more natural continuity than, for example, what Larian likes to do.

I completely forgot about it until now, but at the end of Valian faction quest in Deadfire, when I got director Castol fired from he job, he got exiled to the Living Lands. (I assume the same happens to his opposition if she fails?). Those are faces I definitely expect to pop up in the Avowed.

I wonder if we will be able to import our PoE2 save into Avowed.

[Ordo!]

Actually we can see the flag of the Watcher (Caed Nua) in the trailer, I don't think Maerwald would've sent an expedition to the Living Lands.

It could be an indication of the timeline.

[Boeroer]

[Theonlygarby]

I think they probably could have had a new character in deadfire.  One thing I like about dragon age is that they have a new main character every installment.

 

There was no real reason the watcher was back for deadfire imo.

 

Deadfire did a decent job giving reason why you are level 1, but in general it's annoying when you start a sequel weaker than you ended the previous game.

 

I really really hope we get a proper poe3

Edited June 21, 2023 by Theonlygarby

[Theonlygarby]

Starfield Is making me excited for Avowed.  I realize now, that I like games with some linear story telling.  I actually don't value scale. 

Tell an intriguing story, and let me make choices throughout.

I dont need to be able to go anywhere I can see, just make the places I see interesting.

[Ordo!]

My theory is that Avowed will be a mix between Tyranny, Skyrim and Deadfire. We can see a lot of factions, we are playing an envoy of Aedyr in a "colonized" land and the game seems to be focused around depth more than breadth, ala Tyranny.

[bjhbgjh]

I am especially curious to see how Obsidian will handle the returning characters from PoE2.