Ukraine Conflict

[Malcador]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/fifa-rejects-zelensky-request-to-deliver-peace-message-at-world-cup-final-report/

Almost wish Ukraine had qualified. The whining on behalf of them throughout each game would have been great

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

14 minutes ago, Malcador said:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/fifa-rejects-zelensky-request-to-deliver-peace-message-at-world-cup-final-report/

Almost wish Ukraine had qualified. The whining on behalf of them throughout each game would have been great

There is an alternate timeline where both Russia and Ukraine not only qualify but face each other in the final.

[Malcador]

And for some reason have Iranian and American players in each squad.

[Mamoulian War]

On 12/14/2022 at 8:40 PM, Zoraptor said:

Malc has pretty well covered the law part, guess that leaves...

..the law and penalties actually being applied. I doubt the fine levied by the "Commission for the Protection of the State Language" would be considered particularly egregious, but labeling use of Russian as "profane" is certainly indicative of where the commissar wants things to go.

 

I am wondering, how would you consider the actions of Russians on the occupied territories, which they are taking towards Ukrainian speaking population, if you are so much triggered by using the word “profane” connected to the use of Russian language in Ukraine

[Mamoulian War]

On 12/15/2022 at 7:51 PM, pmp10 said:

Russia has not yet deployed majority of their conscripts to Ukraine.
The questions are more of 'when will they start' and 'how far they will get'. 

The most tossed around date for the full deployment of fresh mobiks is February 2023.

[Mamoulian War]

On 12/16/2022 at 8:04 AM, pmp10 said:

With conscript forces there is no telling what they are capable of. 
Both on battlefield and off. 

But the initial 100k or so seems to have stabilized the lines and helped cover the retreat from Kherson.
So chances are that next 200k would make some gains. 

The front is more stabilized due to the lakes of mud, than the big number of mobiks. According to Zaluzhny, Ukraine has currently 1 million of mobilized soldiers as well, with tens of thousands having professional trainings all around Europe and Canada. Russians on the other hand, have proper training for 10-20k IIRC, mobiks in Belarus (someone correct me please, if I remeber wrong the number). Most of the other training grounds deep in Russia are in very bad condition. According to mobik wifes, they are shooting maximum two or three days in a week, and then are doing nothing. According to their wifes, more than 2/3 of them are suffering with various type of breath apparatus illness. From easy cold, through COVID, to serious pneumonia, and are facing lack of medicine to get treated. All of that, while “camping” in temperatures bellow -30 degrees Celaius

[Zoraptor]

3 hours ago, Mamoulian War said:

I am wondering, how would you consider the actions of Russians on the occupied territories, which they are taking towards Ukrainian speaking population, if you are so much triggered by using the word “profane” connected to the use of Russian language in Ukraine

"But what about..."

I mean I was going to let the whole thing drop but on the good for goose, good for gander principle per above; are you going to admit that your statement "That is absolute bull**** Russian propaganda. Russian language was never penalized." was instead a load of Ukrainian/ western propaganda? No? Then you're just making yourself look silly by carrying it on.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Zoraptor

[BruceVC]

6 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

"But what about..."

I mean I was going to let the whole thing drop but on the good for goose, good for gander principle per above; are you going to admit that your statement "That is absolute bull**** Russian propaganda. Russian language was never penalized." was instead a load of Ukrainian/ western propaganda? No? Then you're just making yourself look silly by carrying it on.

So you adopting the " whats good for the goose ... " ideological view

So we wont hear anymore outrage about Iraq, Libya or Bosnia\Kosovo. Good to know, I have waited 12 years for that 

[Gorth]

44 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

So you adopting the " whats good for the goose ... " ideological view

So we wont hear anymore outrage about Iraq, Libya or Bosnia\Kosovo. Good to know, I have waited 12 years for that 

Yeah, lets forget past atrocities, "sovereign borders" and rule of law. It's really only convenient sometimes and should be reserved for when it suits *my* purposes

[BruceVC]

33 minutes ago, Gorth said:

Yeah, lets forget past atrocities, "sovereign borders" and rule of law. It's really only convenient sometimes and should be reserved for when it suits *my* purposes

Yes these things indeed dont matter to Russia or Vatnik justification of the invasion of Ukraine and  Russian military operations. Thats a good observation 

[xzar_monty]

On 12/16/2022 at 11:10 AM, Gorth said:

...and the next 100k-300k might indeed make some gains. The next 500k+ would make it a war of attrition that few countries can keep up with. Russia can take 3/1 casualty rates and still bleed Ukraine dry. A year ago I would have thought it a stupid approach. But I would also have thought invading Ukraine a stupid idea about a year ago. Some things and situations just defy logic.

 

There's a Finnish war joke concerning Finns and Russians.

"Come on guys, one Finn is worth ten Russians[*]", a commander shouts to his troops.

"Yeah, but what do you do when the eleventh one comes?" a fairly demoralized soldier asks.

 

This appears to be the way Russia wages this war. In fact, there's an article today arguing precisely this point: Russia intends to go on as long as it has to and kill troops on both sides, until "the eleventh Russian is left standing". They really are that cynical, even to their own people.

 

[*] (Incidentally, this is even fairly close to true, when you look at the casualties in the Winter War.)

 

EDIT: Speaking of Russia and stupid approach: Gorth, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by xzar_monty

[Malcador]

19 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

"But what about..."

I mean I was going to let the whole thing drop but on the good for goose, good for gander principle per above; are you going to admit that your statement "That is absolute bull**** Russian propaganda. Russian language was never penalized." was instead a load of Ukrainian/ western propaganda? No? Then you're just making yourself look silly by carrying it on.

 

This thread would be pretty empty if there were no propaganda, to be honest.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Malcador

[Malcador]

8 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

EDIT: Speaking of Russia and stupid approach: Gorth, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

Weaponry worship is indeed stupid, been here through the entire war I guess that's just what modern war is. Bayraktar had a song too, no ? The St. Javelina and HIMARS o'clock nonsense.   God bless the Internet.

[bugarup]

12 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

EDIT: Speaking of Russia and stupid approach: Gorth, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

 

Those subtitles unfortunately lose hilarious (ab)use of diminutives, because it actually goes like "We Sarmatsies from Mommy Russia are watching the United Statesies"

[Azdeus]

4 hours ago, Malcador said:

Weaponry worship is indeed stupid, been here through the entire war I guess that's just what modern war is. Bayraktar had a song too, no ? The St. Javelina and HIMARS o'clock nonsense.   God bless the Internet.

Yeah, there's a bayraktar song, but atleast it frakkin' slaps, that sarmat song is bloody weak

[Gorth]

16 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Yes these things indeed dont matter to Russia or Vatnik justification of the invasion of Ukraine and  Russian military operations. Thats a good observation 

You know, your constant putting words in peoples mouths, misrepresenting what they say for no other purpose than to try to rile them up is at best petty trolling and at worst, cheapens the posts of serious posters like mamoulian war and xzar, which make well presented views and put some effort and actual thought into their posts, because you taint their position by association.

[majestic]

10 minutes ago, Gorth said:

You know, your constant putting words in peoples mouths, misrepresenting what they say for no other purpose than to try to rile them up is at best petty trolling and at worst, cheapens the posts of serious posters like mamoulian war and xzar, which make well presented views and put some effort and actual thought into their posts, because you taint their position by association.

You assume intent where there is none. This is not deliberate, just a byproduct.

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, Gorth said:

You know, your constant putting words in peoples mouths, misrepresenting what they say for no other purpose than to try to rile them up is at best petty trolling and at worst, cheapens the posts of serious posters like mamoulian war and xzar, which make well presented views and put some effort and actual thought into their posts, because you taint their position by association.

Maybe you should take your own advice about " putting words in people mouths " because I never said that past atrocities dont matter or we ignore these things when convenient. 

If you want to know what I think about other conflicts ask me?

 

[xzar_monty]

Switzerland being a peculiar case once again (Twitter link below -- I don't understand the "potentially sensitive" warning btw, there's just rubble in the picture). The relationship between geography and politics is very interesting, as exemplified by both Switzerland and Russia. If it wasn't for the mountains, Switzerland would have had zero chance of forming a "neutral" bastion in the middle of Europe, and at least part of the Russian paranoia stems from the fact that to anyone coming from the west, Russia is open land that's relatively easy to march through: not many natural defensive structures in sight.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by xzar_monty

[Lexx]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I never said that past atrocities dont matter or we ignore these things when convenient.

Yes, but you see, every time you mention russian crimes, you are by law required to mention crimes of similar value from the west, else your post is invalid. If you don't do this, you automatically absolve the west of all its wrongdoings.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, xzar_monty said:

Switzerland being a peculiar case once again (Twitter link below -- I don't understand the "potentially sensitive" warning btw, there's just rubble in the picture). The relationship between geography and politics is very interesting, as exemplified by both Switzerland and Russia. If it wasn't for the mountains, Switzerland would have had zero chance of forming a "neutral" bastion in the middle of Europe, and at least part of the Russian paranoia stems from the fact that to anyone coming from the west, Russia is open land that's relatively easy to march through: not many natural defensive structures in sight.

 

 

Swiss  "neutrality " has often surprised me because there is a dark side to it like hiding of Nazi  wealth and how people have used Swiss banks for money laundering. But the Swiss have made changes to this and how Swiss banks work so they do seem to be aware of these types of systemic abuse within their country 

 

 

[Sarex]

https://news.yahoo.com/von-der-leyen-statement-death-163600213.html

A break in the Western narrative.

[pmp10]

EU agrees to potential gas price cap.
It's still very much theoretical (it's set far above the current market value) but after months of negotiations some agreement has been reached. 

[Malcador]

11 hours ago, xzar_monty said:

Switzerland being a peculiar case once again (Twitter link below -- I don't understand the "potentially sensitive" warning btw, there's just rubble in the picture). The relationship between geography and politics is very interesting, as exemplified by both Switzerland and Russia. If it wasn't for the mountains, Switzerland would have had zero chance of forming a "neutral" bastion in the middle of Europe, and at least part of the Russian paranoia stems from the fact that to anyone coming from the west, Russia is open land that's relatively easy to march through: not many natural defensive structures in sight.

 

 

I love people crying and stomping their feet over Switzerland having rules for their ammo, we must hate them for Ukraine has been denied something!

Not sure of how much of a point this is, for one the Swiss banned the electronics as per the article on March 4 - can't retroactively pull them away - and also is not as if the Swiss are intentionally sending any that are going as opposed to them just essentially being smuggled around through third parties.

Related to that https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/special-resources/orlan-complex-tracking-supply-chains-russias-most-successful-uav/

13 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Maybe you should take your own advice about " putting words in people mouths " because I never said that past atrocities dont matter or we ignore these things when convenient. 

If you want to know what I think about other conflicts ask me?

 

Heh, will make a note of this next time.

[Zoraptor]

2 hours ago, Sarex said:

https://news.yahoo.com/von-der-leyen-statement-death-163600213.html

A break in the Western narrative.

Mark Milley also used the 100k casualties figure 6 weeks ago for Ukraine.

Doesn't really say much in terms of the accuracy of the figure itself since it's likely sourced recursively, ie the figure comes from the same estimate Milley made rather than being an independent source arriving at a similar figure.