The All Things Political Topic - We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office

[Gfted1]

17 hours ago, ShadySands said:

When I was in the military it worked like this, if you passed the class with a C or D (I forget which) or better they'd pay for it and if didn't make the grade or you failed then you'd be footing the bill.

Thats how I remember the GI Bill working too.

I think in 7 years my union plumber kid will be making more than me.

[BruceVC]

22 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Thats how I remember the GI Bill working too.

I think in 7 years my union plumber kid will be making more than me.

Is your daughter going to do plumbing full time, where is she studying ? I assume at a technical\artisan college?

How long is the studying  in the US, in SA it looks like its 2-3 years and 4 years in the field

https://www.pcdcollege.co.za/plumbing-courses/

 

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

On 8/25/2022 at 4:13 PM, alanschu said:

I've seen people straight up excuse it because at least those were for "creating jobs" or some such. I'm a bit dubious, but it's also why I advocated for any supports to be delivered to individuals moreso than businesses. More guarantee that supports would go to people (including business owners) to help during a particularly unusual circumstance of time.

I've seen that myself, but given who it typically comes from I think it's just a pattern of supporting things that benefit businesses and the wealthy. All things considered direct aid to people would be more efficient than paying businesses to (hopefully) pay people in situations like covid, but around half of American politicos will lose their **** at the very though of giving away money to individuals so here we are.

Of course, I highly regret not having started a podcast so I could have gotten six figures in PPP cash.

On 8/25/2022 at 4:13 PM, alanschu said:

Part of me thinks that this is a symptom of people that still think that tuition is what it was in the past as well. And also coming to terms with the reality that adjusting for inflation, $50k in 1990 would be $115k today. Median incomes from 1990 ($54k) have not matched that at all ($69k in 2019 pre-Covid). Incomes really took a hit following 2008, but were growing steadily at least since 2015... but still well behind inflation. I'm curious the degree of income inequality, but I remember having my mind blown that if you define "middle" class as the second, middle, and forth quintile of incomes, in Alberta that would mean a household (typically two incomes) income for $330k (!!!!) would still qualify as "middle class." Even though the median household income was about $90k.

I think it's why it led to some comedy such as Wall Street journal breaking down Obama's tax policy with this definitely-representative-of-the-people infographic:

I think it's a couple of things. First, we have a generational gap with the boomers having no idea of what the modern world is actually like regarding education, employment, housing, etc. Secondly, I think there's a dissonance where folks of right-leaning political alignments simultaneously view poor and working class folks as having it very good while downplaying how good upper class folks have it, to the point of the WSJ infograph you posted portraying 200k+ incomes as normal. Combined you have a block of people who are not only ignorant of the reality of student loans (and the economics of being poor to working class in general) but also ideologically hostile to anything to materially help out such as student loan forgiveness or minimum wage increases.

15 hours ago, ShadySands said:

I've given this a little more thought and I don't see how Trump comes out of this unscathed. I mean legally, I think politically nothing matters. Reason being is because even though the president can legally declassify things, IIRC (it's been a long time since I've had to do security training) you can only classify/declassify information not documents. So either all of that information is now declassified everywhere or it's not declassified at all.

A number of people who would be responsible for hitting Trump legally are ideological allies of his who would cut him slack for political reasons. Even if Trump does face legal consequences for this, getting him a pardon will be a day one act for any Republican president. I will be very surprised if Trump faces any consequences at all.

[Gfted1]

11 hours ago, BruceVC said:

I assume at a technical\artisan college?

Never took a single course, but the process was; start out as a "runner" aka tool monkey. Any jobsite needs anything? They deliver it. In doing so they learn some stuff via osmosis. The actual union test can be prepared for by purchasing the $15.00 pdf study guide. Then theres a physical test that aint no joke thats administered by some union approved medical facilities. Now heres where the "its not what you know, its who you know" comes in. In addition to the written/physical tests, it behooves you to have a "letter of intent to hire". It further behooves you if this letter is furnished by a union shop. But to be completely honest, they are begging for union plumbers in these parts. Normally, 200 new hires are accepted out of a pool of over 1000 applicants. But this year they actually had a commercial on tv advertising for applicants. And I was wrong, I asked them, and in 5 years they will be making more than me, on a per hour basis. Guess Ill score a good retirement home after all.  

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

Never took a single course, but the process was; start out as a "runner" aka tool monkey. Any jobsite needs anything? They deliver it. In doing so they learn some stuff via osmosis. The actual union test can be prepared for by purchasing the $15.00 pdf study guide. Then theres a physical test that aint no joke thats administered by some union approved medical facilities. Now heres where the "its not what you know, its who you know" comes in. In addition to the written/physical tests, it behooves you to have a "letter of intent to hire". It further behooves you if this letter is furnished by a union shop. But to be completely honest, they are begging for union plumbers in these parts. Normally, 200 new hires are accepted out of a pool of over 1000 applicants. But this year they actually had a commercial on tv advertising for applicants. And I was wrong, I asked them, and in 5 years they will be making more than me, on a per hour basis. Guess Ill score a good retirement home after all.  

Nice, plus there is the additional advantage of when your daughter comes to visit she can do any plumbing DIY that is required

You dont have to do all the work anymore 

 

[Hurlshort]

https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2022/08/28/twitter-ensured-curt-schilling-cant-forget-about-38-studios-following-his-student-debt-relief-commentary/?s_campaign=bcom%3Asocialflow%3Afacebook&fbclid=IwAR00CcU44ISuPZLbS3IFs3EOLQZHJc_RfHyGL5zbEOxgGrypZmdYQI_RzuU

Hah, this probably fits the funny things thread better. Curt Schilling, man. 

[Gfted1]

16 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Nice, plus there is the additional advantage of when your daughter comes to visit she can do any plumbing DIY that is required

You dont have to do all the work anymore 

 

I jokingly asked if I could join the shop as the new runner, with intent to work my way into the union. But Im too old for that, its seriously a labor intensive job that requires a young and spry physique, but they are well compensated. I wish I would have thought of it 30 years ago.  

[BruceVC]

I been  following some interviews on CNN about this student debt forgiveness and some of the guests raised relevant criticism towards this that I think need to be considered. I agree with some of them

• You are now rewarding people for not doing the right thing and not paying back there loans so what about the millions of Americans who made necessary sacrifices and did pay back there loans? What message you sending
• This loan forgiveness is just  a political attempt to pander to the Democratic base, Biden needs to do this because of current bad polling numbers. Its no different to Trump tax cuts except the Trump tax cuts did benefit the US economy
• This can make inflation worse, I dont agree with this. Here is an article that summarizes this concern 

https://www.vox.com/2022/8/25/23320825/student-loan-debt-forgiveness-inflation

 

 

 

[Lexx]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

You are now rewarding people for not doing the right thing and not paying back there loans so what about the millions of Americans who made necessary sacrifices and did pay back there loans? What message you sending

What about the rich americans who also got their loans forgiven, sometimes even 10x the amount. There is lots of hypocrisies going on here. Of course nothing else is to be expected from the political right.

Sure, if you just paid off your loan, it kinda sucks for you, but is that really a reason to not to this? Why do you want other people to suffer the way you did? That's very selfish. Also, this way it becomes a circle which you can't break out from, it will just keep going and going, since nobody wants the ones after them to not suffer the same.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Lexx

[BruceVC]

40 minutes ago, Lexx said:

What about the millions of rich americans who also got their loans forgiven, sometimes even 10x the amount. There is lots of hypocrisies going on here. Of course nothing else is to be expected from the political right.

Sure, if you just paid off your loan, it kinda sucks for you, but is that really a reason to not to this? Why do you want other people to suffer the way you did? That's very selfish. Also, this way it becomes a circle which you can't break out from, it will just keep going and going, since nobody wants the ones after them to not suffer the same.

So basically you setting a precedent to say " take a loan and dont worry about paying it back " 

What do you mean by " rich Americans who had loans forgiven"? Do you have a link to support this or can you clarify?

[Lexx]

I can't find the list right now, but just head over to the White House twitter for now and bathe in the hypocrisy:

 

7 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

So basically you setting a precedent to say " take a loan and dont worry about paying it back " 

Yes, how else to get out of this? Sure they could also pay every american 10k, why not, but then even more people will crap their pants.

In germany, you will not go out of your student days with 100k in depth. This is not a thing here. If I had to imagine starting my worklife with that amount of baggage, I'd probably give up right away, since chances are very high that I am paying that off for the next 30 years. Forget about ever owning a house, too, since that crap on top of the student loan will have you pay off depth for 60+ years.

/Edit: And now get into an accident and pay another 100k in medical depth. America really wants you to be poor. I think it really needs their slaves to keep the system running. Just wondering when's the point where it will all blow up.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Lexx

[Gfted1]

See! This is what Ive been saying. Poor and sick slaves have diminishing returns. If we had UBI, UHC, UFE and UFH we would be living in nirvana. Make it happen, captain.

[Raithe]

[Gfted1]

Luckily, since most of our posters will never own a home, they will never have to feel the indignant SLAP TO THEIR FACE when learning that the bank charges them interest on mortgages. Bullet dodged there but it doesnt solve the problem of our lack of UFH.

[Hurlshort]

22 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Luckily, since most of our posters will never own a home, they will never have to feel the indignant SLAP TO THEIR FACE when learning that the bank charges them interest on mortgages. Bullet dodged there but it doesnt solve the problem of our lack of UFH.

Usually all you pay is interest for the first few years of the loan, too. 

[Gfted1]

1 hour ago, Hurlshort said:

Usually all you pay is interest for the first few years of the loan, too. 

True that, the fatcats get you coming and going.  Homes, medicine and some walking around cash are a lot more important. We need to focus on government/fatcat funded versions of those first, imo. 

[BruceVC]

9 hours ago, Hurlshort said:

Usually all you pay is interest for the first few years of the loan, too. 

Maybe you should demand that all loans in the US get scrapped? Think how convenient it will be if home loans are removed, the greedy banks can carry the cost?

 

 

[Elerond]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Maybe you should demand that all loans in the US get scrapped? Think how convenient it will be if home loans are removed, the greedy banks can carry the cost?

Or maybe go with Swedish model where home loan is not mean to be paid back ever as people pay them back for 50+ years. 

I call it system where banks rent properties to people but don't need to suffer from any obligations of landlord

[Hurlshort]

12 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Maybe you should demand that all loans in the US get scrapped? Think how convenient it will be if home loans are removed, the greedy banks can carry the cost?

Ah, look at the defensive banker. "If I can't make obscene profits, I'll take my ball and go home!"

[BruceVC]

18 minutes ago, Hurlshort said:

Ah, look at the defensive banker. "If I can't make obscene profits, I'll take my ball and go home!"

All companies have to be profitable Hurlshot or they wouldnt be sustainable 

If you think a listed  company is making obscene profits why dont you do some research and look at the profit target\increase  from the year before. Its normally 12-18%, thats not obscene?

Do that for any company in the US but track it over 4-5 years. Listed companies have to make there financial statements publicly available so it should be on the company website? 

 

[Chilloutman]

23 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

All companies have to be profitable Hurlshot or they wouldnt be sustainable 

If you think a listed  company is making obscene profits why dont you do some research and look at the profit target\increase  from the year before. Its normally 12-18%, thats not obscene?

Do that for any company in the US but track it over 4-5 years. Listed companies have to make there financial statements publicly available so it should be on the company website? 

 

companies usually create products tho, banks just make money from thin air

[Hurlshort]

Are salaries increasing 12%-18% every year? 

How does the average homebuyer keep up with those profit margins that the banks are expected to get off their home loans?

If I borrow a million dollars at 4% for a home loan, which is pretty normal in the Bay Area, I will pay the bank $700,000 in interest over the life of the loan. That is considered a good rate. It's not a great system for the homebuyer. It is massively profitable for the banks.

[Hurlshort]

I don't have any problem with banks earning a profit and charging interest, by the way. I appreciate my local banks and the service and security they offer, and they tend to be transparent about interest rates and costs. But when we are talking about necessities like housing and education, there needs to be controls in place to keep the average person from being fleeced by the profit machine.

[Malcador]

6 minutes ago, Hurlshort said:

I don't have any problem with banks earning a profit and charging interest, by the way. I appreciate my local banks and the service and security they offer, and they tend to be transparent about interest rates and costs. But when we are talking about necessities like housing and education, there needs to be controls in place to keep the average person from being fleeced by the profit machine.

Sounds like someone's infected with socialism....

[BruceVC]

34 minutes ago, Hurlshort said:

Are salaries increasing 12%-18% every year? 

How does the average homebuyer keep up with those profit margins that the banks are expected to get off their home loans?

If I borrow a million dollars at 4% for a home loan, which is pretty normal in the Bay Area, I will pay the bank $700,000 in interest over the life of the loan. That is considered a good rate. It's not a great system for the homebuyer. It is massively profitable for the banks.

You lucky at 4%, in SA our Reserve Bank\Central Bank  sets the prime Interest rate and then banks add on  percentages to whatever the prime rate is.

So our prime rate is 9% at the moment  which means you will get a loan from a bank  for 12-15% ...I wish we could get a loan for 4%

https://www.mortgagemarket.co.za/resources/articles/what-is-the-current-interest-rate-on-a-home-loan-in-south-africa