The All Things Political Topic - We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office

[Gromnir]

have always thought people were overinvested in questions regarding what happens after death, the nature o' souls and the existence o' god(s). does that stuff matter? why?

am suspecting there is extreme few hardcore nihilists 'mongst you all, and even if there were, they would have same pov as Gromnir: those questions is the least important. chances are you believe in love, family, justice, fairness or some other invention o' the human beast. in fact, chances are the things you is most willing to die for, and hopeful live for, is having no existence save for belief. 

bob believes in god and his deity is vengeful and hates teh gays.

wilma believes in god and her deity is compassionate and loving, embracing all walks o' life.

bob, in spite o' his beliefs, volunteers at a local homeless shelter and helped fund  weave outreach in his community.

wilma is a keyboard warrior who never hesitates to tell folks how to be better people, but she has never helped a person who couldn't help her in return.

michalangelo does Sistine chapel ceiling and his pieta.

jim jones had his koolaid.

chances are you believe strong 'bout any number o' things which ain't objective real and can never be prove real. why should god and souls be different. strength o' belief and how you change your behaviors based on those beliefs is what matters, no?

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Gfted1]

I dont have the nerve for riding motorcycles. 1000 years ago somebody said to me; "is not if youre going to crash, its when" and that left in indelible memory in me.

What make/model do you own?

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

have always thought people were overinvested in questions regarding what happens after death, the nature o' souls and the existence o' god(s). does that stuff matter? why?

am suspecting there is extreme few hardcore nihilists 'mongst you all, and even if there were, they would have same pov as Gromnir: those questions is the least important. chances are you believe in love, family, justice, fairness or some other invention o' the human beast. in fact, chances are the things you is most willing to die for, and hopeful live for, is having no existence save for belief. 

bob believes in god and his deity is vengeful and hates teh gays.

wilma believes in god and her deity is compassionate and loving, embracing all walks o' life.

bob, in spite o' his beliefs, volunteers at a local homeless shelter and helped fund  weave outreach in his community.

wilma is a keyboard warrior who never hesitates to tell folks how to be better people, but she has never helped a person who couldn't help her in return.

michalangelo does Sistine chapel ceiling and his pieta.

jim jones had his koolaid.

chances are you believe strong 'bout any number o' things which ain't objective real and can never be prove real. why should god and souls be different. strength o' belief and how you change your behaviors based on those beliefs is what matters, no?

HA! Good Fun!

 

I agree with this. I believe in God and I believe someday I'll meet God. And I think, like all of us, I'll be called to account for both for the good I could have done and didn't and the bad I shouldn't have done and did. And I believe I'll also be shown the things I did that really mattered to someone. By design or accident I hope I'm leaving the world a slightly better place than I found it for having been here. I believe when we do meet God what we believed or disbelieved will not be high on the discussion list. Only what we did and didn't do. I've known militant atheists who have lived a far more "Christian" life than many professed Christians. I refuse to believe all the good acts of non-believers will be dismissed out of hand because they didn't "think" correctly. 

Just my $.02. Like I said I don't know the truth. No one does. But we will all find out sooner or later.  

[alanschu]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

I dont have the nerve for riding motorcycles. 1000 years ago somebody said to me; "is not if youre going to crash, its when" and that left in indelible memory in me.

What make/model do you own?

I have heard that as well. I dumped the bike while learning to ride going less than 5mph so hopefully that was my when

I'm definitely a lot more hyper aware of things when I'm on the bike that I never am while in a car. If I'm in busier traffic I make sure I can see the face of the people beside me in their side mirrors to have more confidence I'm not in a blind spot. Every intersection I anticipate whether or not there is someone in the oncoming traffic about to turn left and don't drive in the middle of the lane in case in an emergency I need to lane split because I'm hitting the brakes and the person behind me is a bit too close. Certainly my brother's accident helped play a role in having a healthy dose of respect both for the machine as well as the risks. That said it is a thing and nothing saying a crash is always something that I could have avoided if I was just more diligent.

I drive a Suzuki Boulevard M50. It looks a lot like this but has an after market seat that gives me a bit more of a backrest if I need it.

[Achilles]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Like I said I don't know the truth. No one does. But we will all find out sooner or later.

At the risk of being pedantic, if there is no soul that survives the body, then none of us will find out ever.

[Chairchucker]

18 hours ago, alanschu said:

These are all questions I don't have the answer to. I'm an atheist that largely became so because as a 13 year old I found many of the explanations to be inconsistent and/or bull****.

My assessment is that our understanding of any sort of heaven or hell is firmly rooted in projecting what we consider rewarding and punishment as human beings. For example, the supposed suffering of Hell are things that are very understandable from a human perspective (burning, having our physical bodies tortured, etc). But it's not one based on any sort of scripture.

There's passages about people being thrown into a lake of fire or something along those lines.

[Chairchucker]

17 hours ago, Gromnir said:

have always thought people were overinvested in questions regarding what happens after death, the nature o' souls and the existence o' god(s). does that stuff matter? why?

 

Depends. If there is a God and an infinite afterlife, it may end up being of infinite importance.

 

If not, probs no importance.

[BruceVC]

18 hours ago, Achilles said:

At the risk of being pedantic, if there is no soul that survives the body, then none of us will find out ever.

But how do you know there is no soul/spirit ?

What about ghosts, dont tell me you guys dont believe in ghosts either? Haven't you guys watched all these haunting shows on Travel Channel ...there are literally hundreds of these shows, they cant all be fake news surly 

[Gromnir]

3 hours ago, Chairchucker said:

Depends. If there is a God and an infinite afterlife, it may end up being of infinite importance.

 

 

identify the "pot" o' pascal's wager is a droll response and kinda missing the point regardless. 

is admitted incredulous perverse that a sky fairy who in spite o' limitless awareness and power demands individual obeisance o' apes who live on a single planet in a rather dull corner o' the milky way galaxy, especial as a good ending afterlife may depend on the right choice o' faith from amongst a multitude o' potential religions... while convenient ignoring the unfortunate apes who were born and died before the sky fairy chose to make itself known, but whatever, eh? regardless, the skeptic rational demands proof the sky fairy is real, 'cause if no proof then is just like any other snake oil scam, yes? nevertheless, those same people accept w/o question the reality o' a whole host o' intangible human inventions such as honor and love. those demanding proof as an antecedent to belief in sky fairies most likely not need proof o' reality o' those things already most important to them.  the notion that proof o' reality is a prerequisite to belief is a hypocrisy many indulge unaware or ignoring their own ardent belief in the unprovable.

supposed the good ending afterlife hinges on belief, and real or not is immaterial to the question o' belief. as such, god's existence is immaterial. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

 

[Gromnir]

Uvalde massacre puts spotlight on tiny police departments

The criticism heaped on a six-member school police force in Uvalde, Tex., after its response to a mass shooter this spring has drawn attention to a ubiquitous American institution: the tiny police department.

...

Agencies with fewer than 10 officers make up nearly half the nation’s more than 12,200 local departments, a 2016 federal survey found. In many cases, these agencies have sprung up and evolved alongside the towns and communities they serve.

...

McClelland said officers in many of Texas’s smallest agencies receive only the state minimum of 40 hours of ongoing training every two years, while those at bigger agencies often far exceed that. “The state requirements are very minimal, and it’s not adequate,” he said.

...

please recall it is impossible for the fed to do anything meaningful 'bout state and local police in the US-- is a Constitution thing.

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

[Gfted1]

House to vote on same-sex marriage, responding to high court | AP News

Cant wait to see how this gets screwed up. "Working as intended!" smh.

[alanschu]

3 hours ago, Gromnir said:

regardless, the skeptic rational demands proof the sky fairy is real, 'cause if no proof then is just like any other snake oil scam, yes? nevertheless, those same people accept w/o question the reality o' a whole host o' intangible human inventions such as honor and love.

It shouldn't be surprising that when one is compelled to act in a certain way, substantiated by the claims that your everlasting life after this one requires it, that in some it would lead to additional scrutinizing compared to other abstract concepts such as honour or love.

And sure, honour is intangible. But it's largely an adjective that comes with it a series of contextual assumptions as to what traits that espouses - many of which are culturally dependent. It still gets scrutinized and questioned, especially by outsiders of those cultures. Pacific Theater saw both parties question the honour of the other through the lends of what their cultures feel honour is - that it is subjective. Love is also an emotional feeling that is very thoroughly questioned both academically (trying to evaluate it physiologically in hard biological terms, as well as social sciences of psychology and sociology) as well as colloquially. As Haddaway so eloquently put: What is love? (Baby don't hurt me).

So if all abstract concepts are just intangible human inventions not worthy of being discussed lest we be hypocrites... then I guess we're all hypocrites because they're going to get scrutinized.

I think the issue I have is that your usage of the term skeptic rational is too vague, since it too is an intangible that is going to be very subjective and heavily influenced by a host of other intangible values that are unprovable by your standards. Concepts such as equity, fairness, vengeance, and so forth.

You can 100% have total wankers that are atheists and pieces of **** to religious individuals on the basis of something that is not falsifiable. If that's your position then I will definitely agree. I will disagree that that is the notion that is central to being an atheist though. To break it down, it's an abstract concept evaluated with one's own logic and reasoning, both of which are also abstract concepts (that get thoroughly discussed), within the context of their lived experiences.

Edited July 19, 2022 by alanschu

[Achilles]

4 hours ago, BruceVC said:

But how do you know there is no soul/spirit ?

You appear to have missed the “if”

How do you know there is a soul/spirit? Is it possible that whatever you’re calling “soul” is something else with a better explanation than what’s been handed down to us by pre-scientific tradition?

[majestic]

4 hours ago, BruceVC said:

But how do you know there is no soul/spirit ?

Well, color me orange and call me Sunkist. Apparently there is a higher power.

[Gromnir]

 

43 minutes ago, alanschu said:

So if all abstract concepts are just intangible human inventions not worthy of being discussed lest we be hypocrites... then I guess we're all hypocrites because they're going to get scrutinized.

what is with the obsidian logic fails lately? God(s) gets discussed all the time and secular dogma (resulting in bloodshed) surrounding liberty, honour and other notions is hardly unknown. try and stay focused. Gromnir is the one who suggested the belief in god has merit and value divorced from proof of existence. freaking opposite world. 

you got issues with religion? great. you already mentioned you got an emotional skew on this topic, yes? even so, have at it. we got all kinda issues with organized religion, which is another human creation btw. regardless, you do self a disservice if you can't be honest with self. point out subjectivity regarding honour and love as if that is meaningful? your notions o' what god signifies is no doubt gonna be different than many other boardies not to mention the rest o' the world population. if you are using such subjectivity as a contrast to the notion o' god am admitted baffled. 

am not claiming religion is good or bad or that you need believe. we limited discussion to address the obvious hypocrisy in those who are finding an absence o' value in the belief o' god 'cause is unprovable. there don't need be a god for there to be value in the belief, which were neitzsche's point when he did lament that god were dead. 

again, 'cause am suspecting forest is missed for trees, the value o' belief in god is not necessarily diminished by lack of capacity to prove god's existence. lord knows we never suggested belief  related to god or religion were unworthy o' scrutiny or debate. nevertheless, to focus on the provable existence o' a deity as a prerequisite for value is indeed hypocritical if you simultaneous see value in honour, love, justice, etc.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited July 19, 2022 by Gromnir

[Malcador]

Heathens, everywhere.

 

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

House to vote on same-sex marriage, responding to high court | AP News

Cant wait to see how this gets screwed up. "Working as intended!" smh.

Wow, the Dems are now also  worried interracial marriages are now going to be made illegal, bit of fearmongering I think ?

 

[Achilles]

3 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Wow, the Dems are now also  worried interracial marriages are now going to be made illegal, bit of fearmongering I think ?

 

 

[Gromnir]

kinda repetitious, but so it goes. given the reasoning o' the majority in dobbs, and recognizing thomas' concurrence as a next logical step, the basis for maintaining loving has been serious undermined.

however, we will note the Court in loving were not relying exclusive on a substantive due process. equal protection were also recognized as being a basis for declaring the anti-miscegenation law which prevented interracial marriage to be Unconstitutional. so is not complete identical to dobbs. 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

43 minutes ago, Achilles said:

 

I dont think the supreme court will overturn same sex marriage in the US, I was watching an interview with one of the Conservative judges and he said its not the same as R vs W because thats about the taking of a life according to him

But I am concerned so I want to see what happens, do you know SA is the only country on the entire African continent that allows same sex marriage?

I didnt realize how few countries allow same sex marriage 

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-where-gay-marriage-is-legal

 

 

[ComradeYellow]

On 7/18/2022 at 1:49 PM, alanschu said:

I dumped the bike while learning to ride going less than 5mph so hopefully that was my when

Fellow motorcyclist here!  You dumped your bike because you were turning and leaning going less than 5 mph, you want to be at least 8-12 mph when doing low speed maneuvering and mastering that friction zone on your clutch, rear brake, and throttle control or gravity will strike you down.

Never crashed, never will, because I know my skill level.  However, If some braindead teen in a Kia thwacks me someday (1% chance of that happenening!), and there was absolutely nothing I could have done about it, at least have good gear to mitigate the damage.

U.S. cannot get adequate public transportation going so you gotta be an adventurer up for risks and danger if you wanna travel here.  B-b-b-b-ayyyad to the Bone.

Edited July 20, 2022 by ComradeYellow

[alanschu]

47 minutes ago, ComradeYellow said:

Fellow motorcyclist here!  You dumped your bike because you were turning and leaning going less than 5 mph, you want to be at least 8-12 mph when doing low speed maneuvering and mastering that friction zone on your clutch, rear brake, and throttle control or gravity will strike you down.

Oh I understand why I dumped the bike. I was a brand new beginner and didn't yet know how to drive. As I said, I was just learning to ride (I wasn't leaning though... you may have misread learning for leaning?). I just joke that that counts as me checking off the "we all dump the bike" box haha.

I took a motorcycle course which was good and a lot of it was emergency driving and driving slowly and learning about the friction zone with clutch/throttle/rear brake. One of the better decisions I did and wholly was a much better rider after that.

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, ComradeYellow said:

Fellow motorcyclist here!  You dumped your bike because you were turning and leaning going less than 5 mph, you want to be at least 8-12 mph when doing low speed maneuvering and mastering that friction zone on your clutch, rear brake, and throttle control or gravity will strike you down.

Never crashed, never will, because I know my skill level.  However, If some braindead teen in a Kia thwacks me someday (1% chance of that happenening!), and there was absolutely nothing I could have done about it, at least have good gear to mitigate the damage.

U.S. cannot get adequate public transportation going so you gotta be an adventurer up for risks and danger if you wanna travel here.  B-b-b-b-ayyyad to the Bone.

Comrade welcome back, I was just saying how much I missed your posts 

How are the Neo-Nazis in Ukraine going? You wont believe this but the war is still ongoing and the $ is still the worlds reserve  currency...gold hasn't replaced it and we still haven't seen a new world economic order led by Russia 

But the fish and chips financial payment system is still possible 

[Gorth]

6 hours ago, alanschu said:

Oh I understand why I dumped the bike. I was a brand new beginner and didn't yet know how to drive. As I said, I was just learning to ride (I wasn't leaning though... you may have misread learning for leaning?). I just joke that that counts as me checking off the "we all dump the bike" box haha.

I took a motorcycle course which was good and a lot of it was emergency driving and driving slowly and learning about the friction zone with clutch/throttle/rear brake. One of the better decisions I did and wholly was a much better rider after that.

A bit off topic... different colours (mine was red, because red wunz go fasta!) but otherwise this was my very first bike. Drove it a lot for 5-6 years. I had to sell it when I moved from Australia to Germany (or would have both pay shipping and import tax)

Edit: There are days where I really miss it and think I should get my act together and get a new one...

[Gfted1]

The real question is, how many times have you guys whiskey throttled?