The All Things Political Topic - Those who do not move, do not notice their chains

[BruceVC]

33 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Are any actually being told that ? I always see whining about that online but never much in the way of proof other than "my friend told me his prof told him..."

Yes its their but in the form of opinion pieces, blogs and other forms of selective  and biased history and commentary 

I can post links for you if you genuinely interested in reading what I am talking about? It wont just be about the USA and as I mentioned to Amentep   its not a big deal but  it does exist ?

I cant comment on what universities are teaching because I am not talking about that 

Edited January 20, 2022 by BruceVC

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

6 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Are any actually being told that ? I always see whining about that online but never much in the way of proof other than "my friend told me his prof told him..."

I wish.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Are any actually being told that ? I always see whining about that online but never much in the way of proof other than "my friend told me his prof told him..."

Here is one example of  a SA university professor of political science who had lecture about " Hitler did nothing wrong "

Yes he is ignorant of history and thinks Jews are white people, not even knowing Jews are their own ethnic group but this is what I am talking about. I can also post a link to the  podcast if you want to hear his rationale and explanation. Their is 6 minute video  on the first link I recommend you watch for a summary 

https://www.israellycool.com/2021/04/14/bds-supporting-lecturer-hitler-committed-no-crime/

https://therepublicmail.com/adolf-hitler-committed-no-crime-uct-lecturer/

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by BruceVC

[Gromnir]

4 hours ago, Amentep said:

The problem, I think, is that what a lot of people are railing about isn't CRT.  Its stuff like the 1619 Project and other educational approaches to presenting information about historical and systemic racism.  They've been lumped together behind CRT because CRT was a easier way to refer to a group of things that some people don't like / find uncomfortable / think is skewed.  I find it notable that all of the people railing against things like the 1619 Project and other efforts to provide more context to various topics suddenly pivoted to CRT; the only reason I can think is that it was pithy, easy to refer to and had "race" in the title, so everything that anyone didn't like could easily assume CRT contained it.

 

 

and again, crt is graduate level coursework not being taught to middle school, high school or kindergarteners, and that should make a difference. 

we want university students exposed to unfamiliar ideas and theories. we want graduate students to be challenged by ideas and theories which they disagree or find unconvincing. from what we understand, teaching crt to little crumbsnatchers is s'posed bad 'cause is potential a kinda indoctrination o' impressionable youth, but at some point we expect kids is mature enough to be able to study mao, the unab0mber manifesto and reganomics with enough self-discipline to decide for themselves what is dangerous and/or unconvincing. see the thing is, even if you disagree with mao, the unab0mber and reganomics, you might learn something by studying 'em.

if you wanna explain what is wrong with a theory, you gotta at least have some basic knowledge o' it, yes? even if you think crt is the worst theory ever posited, and am gonna note the literal first brookings article on the subject the intraweb led us to is pretty much a refutation o' everything gd claims he learned 'bout crt from brookings, there is nevertheless potential value in having graduate level students parse and study the darn theory. if crt is terribad and stoopid, then should be a simple matter for graduate students to identify the stoopid. don't you want educated people to be able to intelligent respond to proponents o' crt? kinda hamstringing s'posed educated people to challenge crt if the only source material they got is local newspaper articles and the post concluding crt is bad. 

am gonna also suggest a gibbering conspiracy theorist such as @Guard Dog should, if he is being consistent, be more inclined to believe there is value in crt, 'cause why would they be working so hard to keep crt from you unless it were dangerous to them.

HA! Good Fun!

[Amentep]

5 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

and again, crt is graduate level coursework not being taught to middle school, high school or kindergarteners, and that should make a difference. 

It should make a difference, but for a lot of people "CRT" is a placeholder for things that they don't like that they think is being taught in primary/secondary schools.  What politicians rail against is the boogeyman, and they call it CRT.

[Gromnir]

25 minutes ago, Amentep said:

It should make a difference, but for a lot of people "CRT" is a placeholder for things that they don't like that they think is being taught in primary/secondary schools.  What politicians rail against is the boogeyman, and they call it CRT.

which would make more sense if the folks who rail against crt would just says they is using crt as a placeholder... could then claim that once again the libs is nitpicking at nomenclature and naming conventions. however, as we noted with a few fox articles earlier in this thread, the crt crusaders is indeed trying to prove that crt specific is being taught in public schools to little kids. recognizing how the claim crt being taught in public schools to kids is only slight more believable than the suggestion the sound from windmills causes cancer, it would make sense to deflect or pivot... make it a democrat or lib flaw to be overinvested in the name w/o recognizing the Big Problem. however, that ain't how crt is being addressed by those who is offended by its existence. what we see instead is a genuine and hard fought defense o' stoopid, which may be ok with the current gop as part o' the point is to undermine american's resistance to gaslighting. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Amentep]

Yeah, the insistence that literal CRT (as opposed to Boogeyman CRT) is being taught in elementary schools is...confusing.

But I also imagine that the GOP politicians cynically figure they can make any kind of claim or arguments and the current climate shields them from anyone looking too closely (lest they be accused of being disloyal or somesuch).

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Here is one example of  a SA university professor of political science who had lecture about " Hitler did nothing wrong "

Yes he is ignorant of history and thinks Jews are white people, not even knowing Jews are their own ethnic group but this is what I am talking about. I can also post a link to the  podcast if you want to hear his rationale and explanation. Their is 6 minute video  on the first link I recommend you watch for a summary 

https://www.israellycool.com/2021/04/14/bds-supporting-lecturer-hitler-committed-no-crime/

https://therepublicmail.com/adolf-hitler-committed-no-crime-uct-lecturer/

 

 

Sounds like nothing much to get upset over, at least from lens of being attacked over being white

[BruceVC]

5 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Sounds like nothing much to get upset over, at least from lens of being attacked over being white

Okay are you prepared to watch this 35 minute video from that same professor who was on talk show trying to explain the lecture . It will demonstrate my point properly when I talk about revisionist and selective history, I can  explain it once you have listened to this ...yes I know 35 minutes is long but its worth it so you can understand what I am talking about and you need to watch most of the video to understand. And remember this is a professor at a University so he is suppose to informed about the events of history.

 fro

[Malcador]

Honestly no, I get enough exposure to crazy people or people spreading idiocy in my life as is.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Malcador said:

Honestly no, I get enough exposure to crazy people or people spreading idiocy in my life as is.

Okay I understand, I doubt I would watch it either if I was you

I posted this only because you asked for examples and this is a SA development but their are similar examples in the USA. This is not about CRT but rather a trend I sometimes come across, and its not common,  where some activists make historical points that are inaccurate and are just  offensive because they generalize and malign all white people as if we all the same 

[ComradeYellow]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/hunter-biden-aide-invested-chinese-company-communist-party

 

This is front page news for Fox.  Does any registered Democrat who posts on here support Gomyoonist China?  I'm not getting the impression that any Democrat supports the CCP like at all so how can anyone take this nonsense seriously?

Edited January 20, 2022 by ComradeYellow

[Chairchucker]

9 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Have you ever considered maybe many white people are tired of being told your history and ancestors contribution is only  about oppression, racism and slavery and the countries where " all these terrible white people " live are mostly first world countries and countries where millions of people are desperate to immigrate to? So we cant be that bad right ...we must have done something right?

Just a thought 

I don't have much sympathy for other white people whose takeaway from the news that people of colour and other minorities have been disadvantaged by the history of their country is 'man I'm tired of hearing this.' As many people of colour have said, (not me, I'm white!) 'You may be tired of hearing it, but I guarantee we're more tired of living it.'

Also, in many cases developed nations have directly contributed to wrecking developed nations and causing situations people want to flee from, so no, I wouldn't take that as evidence we've 'done something right.'

[Zoraptor]

US bombed Tabqa Dam in Syria despite being on a no bomb list. With 3 2000 lb bombs, no less. That's the small matter of 9.6 km^3 of water that could have been released down a densely populated river valley. They also then droned three of the experts sent to repair it, during a truce, and swore blind that no bomb had been dropped and no one had been droned... If one hadn't been a dud that would likely have resulted in the largest single incident civilian death toll since Hiroshima if not since the Tokyo fire bombing.

To be fair, it was the notorious Talon Anvil task force- which systematically abused command and control shortcuts and completely disregarded civilian casualties- that ordered the strike rather than the normal chain of command, so it's just possible that the command did not know about it at the time. But if anything having rogue operators trying to kill 100,000+ people without knowledge let alone oversight from command is worse than command merely lying about it.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Zoraptor

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, Chairchucker said:

I don't have much sympathy for other white people whose takeaway from the news that people of colour and other minorities have been disadvantaged by the history of their country is 'man I'm tired of hearing this.' As many people of colour have said, (not me, I'm white!) 'You may be tired of hearing it, but I guarantee we're more tired of living it.'

Also, in many cases developed nations have directly contributed to wrecking developed nations and causing situations people want to flee from, so no, I wouldn't take that as evidence we've 'done something right.'

Its vastly exaggerated and inaccurate in most cases this argument that "country x " is responsible for the collapse of " country y "and that is why people leave and become economic  immigrants or immigrants generally. Its absolves bad and failed leadership of the country where people immigrate from or from  taking responsibility for things like good governance. What are your examples of this and do you accept that government is responsible for the welfare of its citizens or is it always the fault of other countries when a country is "wrecked " . So for example who is responsible for the collapse of countries like Syria, Zimbabwe and Venezuela...surly its the policies and decisions of the governments who run the country? 

Also I hope you dont think  I am asking for sympathy? My life is great, I was talking about why some white people assume CRT is true and get genuinely upset. I am opposed to it but for the reasons I explained , Im not angry or upset about it. And you misunderstanding my point, I wasnt saying " white people are tired of black people complaining " , I was saying " white people are tired of being told you are  the worst in the world" .Their is a  huge difference in the 2 sentences and you assuming I am talking about the former 

Edited January 21, 2022 by BruceVC

[Sarex]

6 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

US bombed Tabqa Dam in Syria despite being on a no bomb list. With 3 2000 lb bombs, no less. That's the small matter of 9.6 km^3 of water that could have been released down a densely populated river valley. They also then droned three of the experts sent to repair it, during a truce, and swore blind that no bomb had been dropped and no one had been droned... If one hadn't been a dud that would likely have resulted in the largest single incident civilian death toll since Hiroshima if not since the Tokyo fire bombing.

To be fair, it was the notorious Talon Anvil task force- which systematically abused command and control shortcuts and completely disregarded civilian casualties- that ordered the strike rather than the normal chain of command, so it's just possible that the command did not know about it at the time. But if anything having rogue operators trying to kill 100,000+ people without knowledge let alone oversight from command is worse than command merely lying about it.

Let's be honest here, you don't really think that they really operate outside a chain of command. 99% they still get their orders from the same people just not through official channels, plausible deniability and all that jazz.

[Gorth]

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

So for example who is responsible for the collapse of countries like Syria, Zimbabwe and Venezuela...

Meh, too easy. France, England and Spain in that order. Next...

[BruceVC]

Just now, Gorth said:

Meh, too easy. France, England and Spain in that order. Next...

Thanks Gorthfuscious, glad thats answered 

Heres my next  question for you. If Western\colonial  countries are  responsible nowadays for the problems in Africa and the reason for immigration how come their are stable and economically growing African countries like Rwanda, Namibia, Botswana and Morocco, to name a few,  where the citizens of these countries dont immigrate in their thousands? All these countries use to be colonies of European countries. Rwanda even had a genocide in 1994 which was blamed on the French by some yet its an exceptionally well run country?

Is it also the European countries responsible for the success in  these countries and not good leadership and governments doing their job and ensuring governance and accountability ?

[BruceVC]

The Russians make me laugh, their latest examples of brinkmanship and upsetting the West is to claim " The West is hysterical about Ukraine ", Putin's right as usual because its not like Russia has over 100k troops on the Ukrainian border,  or has  annexed a  part of Ukraine in the past so of course the West is being overly emotional ....oh wait 

[Raithe]

 

[Raithe]

Also:

“It’s a big club and you ain’t in it…”

 

 

[Malcador]

6 hours ago, Sarex said:

Let's be honest here, you don't really think that they really operate outside a chain of command. 99% they still get their orders from the same people just not through official channels, plausible deniability and all that jazz.

I dunno, based off the bad behaviour of the SEALs the past couple of years, can see other US special forces behaving likewise and abusing their freedom of decision making - maybe it could be an issue of the people above them giving them too much freedom, this was in the era of Trump and his "gloves off" spiel, right ?

Shame no one's head will roll from it though.

I got a bit of a chuckle of UK sending their NLAWs (in-laws ? :P) to Ukraine.  Wonder if they'll find their way to third parties.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Malcador

[BruceVC]

2 hours ago, Raithe said:

 

 Raithe McConnell is at age where he is allowed to make the odd gaff...and what a big one this was 

Spoiler

 

 

[Malcador]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-hold-major-navy-drills-involving-all-its-fleets-2022-01-20/

Russian sailors must be overjoyed at all of this extra work.

[Azdeus]

2 hours ago, Raithe said:

Also:

“It’s a big club and you ain’t in it…”