The All Things Political Topic - All people love themselves too much to be changed by something as simple as love.

[Gromnir]

9 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

 

But I dont think Gfted1 is being serious when he says " I want to live off UBI and not work anymore"? Of course any of us would love to not work anymore and live comfortable lives off state sponsored stimulus but I dont think he is being completely serious as he has raised several times valid concerns about this type of socialism

Anyway I may be wrong and maybe Gfted1 does really believe in the ideological objective of this type of thing and I am sure he can clarify if he wants to 

so, in spite o' fact the aforementioned poster has doubled-down on his ubi and uhc position many times, you are nevertheless unconvinced by his claims o' seriousness. is no hypocrisy or lack o' self awareness 'cause you believe he is disingenuous, yes? you are able to see the funny which he denies and think it is unfortunate Gromnir cannot see the funny the way you do... or somesuch.

...

HA! Good Fun!

 

[BruceVC]

36 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

so, in spite o' fact the aforementioned poster has doubled-down on his ubi and uhc position many times, you are nevertheless unconvinced by his claims o' seriousness. is no hypocrisy or lack o' self awareness 'cause you believe he is disingenuous, yes? you are able to see the funny which he denies and think it is unfortunate Gromnir cannot see the funny the way you do... or somesuch.

...

HA! Good Fun!

 

Basically yes, I dont think either of you is being disingenuous and I think some of Gfted1 comments have a valid point but made in joking way 

So for example when he says " I want you to buy me a TV". That is something I would sometimes joke about because the humor is you have resources and you can afford to buy anyone  a TV if you want. But lets say you decided to send Gfted1 a PM asking for his banking details so you can transfer money for his new TV I am not sure he would really accept it?

I would because I have no issue if people want to buy me things or give me money but thats just me 

So in other words sometimes people joke about topics but their is a real point to the broader debate and I think Gfted1 is opposed to much of this suggested  state sponsored stimulus ( 4 s words in a row, not bad BruceVC) on some levels which I agree with

And  I know this is generally something you dont do as we all have our own debating etiquette but its important to accept we all make points and engage in different ways and sometimes the way we make points gets misunderstood 

For example you once said I consider BLM to be a extremist movement but  I have never said that BLM is an extremist movement. I think they are a well meaning SJ movement with some activists who have hijacked  reasonable objectives to support their own anti-white agenda. But thats not the same thing as me thinking BLM is an extremist movement or that everyone who supports BLM is anti-white or doesnt have valid objectives that I do support 

I am just using this as an example to make my point, I dont really want to get into a BLM debate. I hope this makes sense ?

 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by BruceVC

[Gromnir]

54 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Basically yes, I dont think either of you is being disingenuous

 

 

...

what?

you agree with our observation, but disagree 'bout disingenuousness? 

does not compute.

also, show where we claimed that you had described blm as extremist.

will wait.

...

can't find, eh?

we noted how you vilified putin for his crackdown o' protesters while simultaneous defending the frighteningly similar extra legal actions taken by trump and barr to suppress summer protests. have observed how your perception o' hong kong protesters is similar skewed compared to the protests which took place in portland. we have commented 'pon your curious fixation on blm protesters, and am hardly the only obsidian poster to make that connection. you are all over the map with protests and blm, perhaps not wanting to be seen as intolerant, so am not sure if today you think blm is extremist or you is simple willing to say blm protesters deserves draconian treatments and extra legal government response... don't care neither as is rhetorical bs. 

that said, if you didn't wanna talk blm, one o' your favorite bugaboos, maybe you shouldn't have done the same kinda lack o' awareness schtick as we identified so recent regarding the mod whom you cannot seem to bring self to describe as disingenuous, a mod who has in no uncertain terms told you direct that you are wrong when you accuse him o' joking regarding support o' ubi and uhc. 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited December 23, 2021 by Gromnir
removed a "you" and a "compared to" repeats... weird

[BruceVC]

50 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

...

what?

you agree with our observation, but disagree 'bout disingenuousness? 

does not compute.

also, show where we claimed that you had described blm as extremist.

will wait.

...

can't find, eh?

we noted how you vilified putin for his crackdown o' protesters while simultaneous defending the frighteningly similar extra legal actions taken by trump and barr to suppress summer protests. have observed how your perception o' hong kong protesters is similar skewed compared to the protests which took place in portland. we have commented 'pon your curious fixation on blm protesters, and am hardly the only obsidian poster to make that connection. you are all over the map with protests and blm, perhaps not wanting to be seen as intolerant, so am not sure if today you think blm is extremist or you is simple willing to say blm protesters deserves draconian treatments and extra legal government response... don't care neither as is rhetorical bs. 

that said, if you didn't wanna talk blm, one o' your favorite bugaboos, maybe you shouldn't have done the same kinda lack o' awareness schtick as we identified so recent regarding the mod whom you cannot seem to bring self to describe as disingenuous, a mod who has in no uncertain terms told you direct that you are wrong when you accuse him o' joking regarding support o' ubi and uhc. 

HA! Good Fun!

Yes you definitely said I thought BLM was an extremist movement but I have no interest in finding that post because this debate we having is not about BLM as I mentioned

And when you say other forum members also  have  certain views about what I think about BLM I dont see how that changes what I actually think about BLM, their is a saying I like " a thousand wrong people dont make one right person wrong "

A persons opinion doesnt change  because other people have a perception about that persons motives....its like their are many examples of absolute truths in life and no amount of spin and propaganda will change that. And you know this because of some comments and views that Trump has that you have raised

So if you want to give me different perspective dont worry what other people think  about me. Just say what you think, I respect you more than enough to change my view and acknowledge it if you right 

 

 

[Gromnir]

53 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Yes you definitely said I thought BLM was an extremist movement but I have no interest in finding that post because this debate we having is not about BLM as I mentioned

And when you say other forum members also  have  certain views about what I think about BLM I dont see how that changes what I actually think about BLM, their is a saying I like " a thousand wrong people dont make one right person wrong "

A persons opinion doesnt change  because other people have a perception about that persons motives....its like their are many examples of absolute truths in life and no amount of spin and propaganda will change that. And you know this because of some comments and views that Trump has that you have raised

So if you want to give me different perspective dont worry what other people think  about me. Just say what you think, I respect you more than enough to change my view and acknowledge it if you right 

 

 

so, can't be bothered to find the extremist bit, but gonna stick to the accusation nevertheless? disappointing, unconvincing and no surprise whatsoever. shame.

also, while we typically agree that "what others think" is less than compelling evidence o' mistake or error, the accusation we were making were 'bout lack o' self awareness, yes? sorry, but the basis for our criticism regarding communism earlier and your curious issues with blm is similar-- you clear do not recognize your own conflicted position. so while is hardly definitive evidence that you got a problem when other people tell you that you have a problem, is also requiring a certain degree o' stubborn indifference to fail to at least reflect on the possibility you could have a problem if multiple reasonable folks see something broken in your blm views. is indeed possible for bruce to be the only person right 'bout his curiously tangled and inconsistent blm views, but you might wanna consider fact you are not seeing things clear.

and we already told you what we think. we noted how the mod told you flat out, multiple times, that you were wrong 'bout his seriousness insofar as ubi and uhc. you ignore him and Gromnir. also, is not as if we made a blanket appeal to popularity neither insofar as your curious blm fixation as we specific noted your insupportable simultaneous criticism o' portland protesters while lionizing the efforts o' moscow and hong kong protesters. furthermore we noted your defense o' extra-legal response to protesters in the US by the previous administration. remember? is facts which you is selective ignoring or already forgetting. 

the thing is, to admit you got a non analogous fixation regarding blm would require hard admissions and am understanding it is difficult for bruce to confront the truths which underlie such disparate views o' otherwise similar protesters. am not expecting change on the blm issue.

then again, you also refuse to admit a person is disingenuous in spite o' fact you believe that person is not being genuine when they defend ubi and uhc, a position which is manifest improbable, but nevertheless, here we are, eh?

'course, as usual, bruce has driven us way past the point o' exhaustion. is our mistake for once again responding. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by Gromnir

[Sarex]

So it seems Russia has started pumping gas through Nord 2 as it's now going from Germany to Poland.

[Gfted1]

Wont somebody think of the environment!

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, Gromnir said:

so, can't be bothered to find the extremist bit, but gonna stick to the accusation nevertheless? disappointing, unconvincing and no surprise whatsoever. shame.

also, while we typically agree that "what others think" is less than compelling evidence o' mistake or error, the accusation we were making were 'bout lack o' self awareness, yes? sorry, but the basis for our criticism regarding communism earlier and your curious issues with blm is similar-- you clear do not recognize your own conflicted position. so while is hardly definitive evidence that you got a problem when other people tell you that you have a problem, is also requiring a certain degree o' stubborn indifference to fail to at least reflect on the possibility you could have a problem if multiple reasonable folks see something broken in your blm views. is indeed possible for bruce to be the only person right 'bout his curiously tangled and inconsistent blm views, but you might wanna consider fact you are not seeing things clear.

and we already told you what we think. we noted how the mod told you flat out, multiple times, that you were wrong 'bout his seriousness insofar as ubi and uhc. you ignore him and Gromnir. also, is not as if we made a blanket appeal to popularity neither insofar as your curious blm fixation as we specific noted your insupportable simultaneous criticism o' portland protesters while lionizing the efforts o' moscow and hong kong protesters. furthermore we noted your defense o' extra-legal response to protesters in the US by the previous administration. remember? is facts which you is selective ignoring or already forgetting. 

the thing is, to admit you got a non analogous fixation regarding blm would require hard admissions and am understanding it is difficult for bruce to confront the truths which underlie such disparate views o' otherwise similar protesters. am not expecting change on the blm issue.

then again, you also refuse to admit a person is disingenuous in spite o' fact you believe that person is not being genuine when they defend ubi and uhc, a position which is manifest improbable, but nevertheless, here we are, eh?

'course, as usual, bruce has driven us way past the point o' exhaustion. is our mistake for once again responding. 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I spent 5 minutes doing an advanced search and I found the post I was talking about that you made in the 20 June where you suggested I thought  BLM was an extremist group, I reread it and I even though  I am not 100 % sure I still think that is what you were saying

Here is the post and I quoted the part that you linked me to the extremist allegation 

You said in this post " during the summer your were defending the same argument as putin made at his presser and you don't realize it or are purposeful ignoring. for putin, the denial o' basic freedoms and rights is okie dokie 'cause the people being prevented from running for office or who were detained during the recent widespread protests in russia were affiliated with dangerous extremist organizations. is exact same argument made by barr, trump (and bruce)"

You  state that Bruce is making the same argument as Barr and Trump that people in BLM  who were arrested are affiliated with dangerous, extremist organisations. And I never said that is why people should be arrested, I have always maintained people must be arrested who break the law during any protest. Not because they an extremist group

I hope this clears this up?  

 

 

Edited December 23, 2021 by BruceVC

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

You  state that Bruce is making the same argument as Barr and Trump that people in BLM  who were arrested are affiliated with dangerous, extremist organisations.

bad bruce, naughty boy. 

what you accused us o' was saying you had labeled blm extremist. 

"Yes you definitely said I thought BLM was an extremist movement". 

what we said were PUTIN were making the same arguments as trump and barr and that you defended the barr and trump actions while opposing putin's.

"during the summer your were defending the same argument as putin made at his presser and you don't realize it or are purposeful ignoring. for putin, the denial o' basic freedoms and rights is okie dokie 'cause the people being prevented from running for office or who were detained during the recent widespread protests in russia were affiliated with dangerous extremist organizations. is exact same argument made by barr, trump (and bruce) during the summer when it were blm protesters who were being arrested w/o due process o' law. again, barr used sedition laws to claim he had authority to carry out his illegal suppression. blm and antifa, and anybody barr or trump claimed were affiliated with those undeserving o' basic rights o' every other American Citizen.

"but again, the proverbial cherry on top is, given an opportunity to imagine a "worse case scenario" o' the government denying freedoms and rights 'cause a person or group embraces the wrong ideology, you latch onto blm... as the source o' oppression." 

for those curious as to the "cherry we speak o'"

"What exactly does that mean and who decides what is "anti government ". Seriously, imagine some worse case scenarios around this like " you must bend the knee in reverence to BLM or you are deemed racist and this government doesnt tolerate racists "  or " everyone in the South must admit being involved in the historical  slave trade and pay reparations to government " ( what was that funny website you sometimes quote that made those jokes about a Muppet TV character ) "

your example... which were yet another unprompted pivot to blm.

you have a fixation and you are incapable o' self reflection regarding protests in general and blm specific.

so, as we already stated, we didn't actual say you claimed blm were extremist. you inferred such. what we said were trump and barr labeled blm extremist and dangerous and that you defended their extra legal efforts and actions to suppress the protests... and were nevertheless offended when putin made same observations in suppressing his protesters and using january 6 in his transparent whataboutism campaign. 

bad bruce.

...

am not concerned with why you were/are okie dokie with trump and barr violations of rule of law as they sought to make a show o' bringing order in the pacific north west and elsewhere when in fact what they were doing were actual inflaming resistance. after all, am knowing your reasons is mere rationalizations. however, you still haven't come to grips with fact you defended trump and barr efforts when at same time you derided putin for similar behavior. 

no self reflection and am suspecting you is quite aware that the post you quoted did not actual contain a claim by Gromnir accusing you o' calling blm extremist. your efforts is instead directed sole at vindicating your previous statement and your untenable position regarding the suppression o' protesters. no growth makes this pointless. more pointless? yet again pointless?

also gonna observe once more how you still haven't addressed the issue which started all o' this silliness-- your refusal to accept a poster's defense o' ubi and uhc as real while quixotic refusing to concede that a person whom you believe is not being genuine is unworthy o' having their behavior labeled disingenuous. bruce no doubt realizes the described defense o' ubi from a person you believe is not genuine supportive o' ubi  is pretty much gonna be the dictionary exemplar o' disingenuous, yes? and yet we got you once again raising your blm complaints... while simultaneous saying you didn't want to do so, as if you were forced into resurrecting the corpse o' a terrible argument you refuse to let die. 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

3 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

bad bruce, naughty boy. 

what you accused us o' was saying you had labeled blm extremist. 

"Yes you definitely said I thought BLM was an extremist movement". 

what we said were PUTIN were making the same arguments as trump and barr and that you defended the barr and trump actions while opposing putin's.

"during the summer your were defending the same argument as putin made at his presser and you don't realize it or are purposeful ignoring. for putin, the denial o' basic freedoms and rights is okie dokie 'cause the people being prevented from running for office or who were detained during the recent widespread protests in russia were affiliated with dangerous extremist organizations. is exact same argument made by barr, trump (and bruce) during the summer when it were blm protesters who were being arrested w/o due process o' law. again, barr used sedition laws to claim he had authority to carry out his illegal suppression. blm and antifa, and anybody barr or trump claimed were affiliated with those undeserving o' basic rights o' every other American Citizen.

"but again, the proverbial cherry on top is, given an opportunity to imagine a "worse case scenario" o' the government denying freedoms and rights 'cause a person or group embraces the wrong ideology, you latch onto blm... as the source o' oppression." 

for those curious as to the "cherry we speak o'"

"What exactly does that mean and who decides what is "anti government ". Seriously, imagine some worse case scenarios around this like " you must bend the knee in reverence to BLM or you are deemed racist and this government doesnt tolerate racists "  or " everyone in the South must admit being involved in the historical  slave trade and pay reparations to government " ( what was that funny website you sometimes quote that made those jokes about a Muppet TV character ) "

your example... which were yet another unprompted pivot to blm.

you have a fixation and you are incapable o' self reflection regarding protests in general and blm specific.

so, as we already stated, we didn't actual say you claimed blm were extremist. you inferred such. what we said were trump and barr labeled blm extremist and dangerous and that you defended their extra legal efforts and actions to suppress the protests... and were nevertheless offended when putin made same observations in suppressing his protesters and using january 6 in his transparent whataboutism campaign. 

bad bruce.

...

am not concerned with why you were/are okie dokie with trump and barr violations of rule of law as they sought to make a show o' bringing order in the pacific north west and elsewhere when in fact what they were doing were actual inflaming resistance. after all, am knowing your reasons is mere rationalizations. however, you still haven't come to grips with fact you defended trump and barr efforts when at same time you derided putin for similar behavior. 

no self reflection and am suspecting you is quite aware that the post you quoted did not actual contain a claim by Gromnir accusing you o' calling blm extremist. your efforts is instead directed sole at vindicating your previous statement and your untenable position regarding the suppression o' protesters. no growth makes this pointless. more pointless? yet again pointless?

also gonna observe once more how you still haven't addressed the issue which started all o' this silliness-- your refusal to accept a poster's defense o' ubi and uhc as real while quixotic refusing to concede that a person whom you believe is not being genuine is unworthy o' having their behavior labeled disingenuous. bruce no doubt realizes the described defense o' ubi from a person you believe is not genuine supportive o' ubi  is pretty much gonna be the dictionary exemplar o' disingenuous, yes? and yet we got you once again raising your blm complaints... while simultaneous saying you didn't want to do so, as if you were forced into resurrecting the corpse o' a terrible argument you refuse to let die. 

HA! Good Fun!

Gromnir its Christmas and the truth is I feel we have exhausted our different views and we not going to change each others minds. We can have another debate about BLM at a later stage, just not now

Cute dog picture, Im a sucker for puppies 

 

[pmp10]

9 hours ago, Sarex said:

So it seems Russia has started pumping gas through Nord 2 as it's now going from Germany to Poland.

If so, that would only be for technical testing as the thing is still uncertified.
Reverse flow to Poland would have to come from other sources. 

[Raithe]

What the Republicans used to be (kind of)

 

[ComradeYellow]

So Republicans were cooler when they gave free stuff out of pocket only to people who joined organizations that kill people. What are they now? No free stuff for everyone equally? I think I'd prefer less discrimination.

[Gfted1]

Im wondering whos land they parked them on?

[Guard Dog]

This is why red states are awesome

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I live in what is probably the most notorious red state and have never seen a donut shop/gunstore. Which is probably a good thing, I imagine sharing a space may cause some issues.

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

This is why red states are awesome

This is one of the best photos I have seen in ages , you never know when you will want cake and an  automatic rifle...you just dont know. Go Red states !!! 

 

 

[Gfted1]

Semi-automatic.  

[Guard Dog]

Meh. Full auto rifles are a waste of money. Inaccurate, hard to buy, and prohibitively expensive. I'd rather have a glazed donut. 

[BruceVC]

8 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Meh. Full auto rifles are a waste of money. Inaccurate, hard to buy, and prohibitively expensive. I'd rather have a glazed donut. 

GD that sounds dangerously like Wisconsin liberal\left wing ideology ....now you know why I said " stay in Tennessee where things make sense "....I am going to blame Hurlshot for this change in you 

[Guard Dog]

2 hours ago, BruceVC said:

GD that sounds dangerously like Wisconsin liberal\left wing ideology ....now you know why I said " stay in Tennessee where things make sense "....I am going to blame Hurlshot for this change in you 

LOL it's just simple economics Bruce. Ammunition is expensive and you want to hit your target right?  So lets work this out.

Assume an average person is firing a full auto AR class rifle, right handed,  in the offhand position. In full auto a 5.56mm chambered rifle fires one round every 0.5  seconds. It's actually a little less than than but we'll say a half second for the sake of simplicity. 

The #1 rule in rifle marksmanship is proper stock weld, sight picture, sight alignment. Doing this allows you to fire from the same firing point repeatedly.  That is the whole point. In semi-auto fire the shooter reacquires those three things before firing again. If they are doing that they are hitting their targets. 

An AR class rifle has an ejection port on the shooters right side. Now, the AR class captures most of the kinetic action of the recoil but not all so the shooters sight picture and sight alignment are disrupted after every shot. Add to that the gas and kinetic action of ejecting the spent cartridge to the right causes the rifle to move to the left and slightly upward after every round is fired.  The shooter MUST correct for this after every shot to fire accurately.

With me so far? OK, the average human reaction time according to human benchmark is 250 milliseconds. That is the time it takes the average brain to see, process, and decide on a corrective action. According to the marksmanship training in the USMC a well disciplined shooter can acquire stock weld, sight picture, sight alignment and fire a round in 416 milliseconds. So after firing a well aimed first round it takes 250 milliseconds to perceive the rifle is off target and 400 milliseconds to correct (rounding down since in full auto it's not necessary for the shooter to pull the trigger again) for a total of 650 milliseconds. 

Do you see the problem? Before the shooter can correct for the kinetic energy movement of the rifle the rifle has already fired another round. Now the rifle is even more off target and will require MORE than 650 ms to correct but before THAT can be corrected the rifle has fired again.... and again.... it gets worse and more off target with every cycle. 

Ever heard of spray and pray? THAT is what full auto is. .223 / 5.56mm will set you back about $1.50 a round right now. They are expensive!  Every round you miss was wasted!

Kidding aside full auto from a hand held rifle is only good for two things: killing people indiscriminately at point blank range or laying down suppressing fire to cover infantry movement. In either case accuracy is irrelevant. That's why they are practically illegal. In an actual firefight from 75 meters away if you are facing an opponent with a full auto rifle and a full magazine and you have a semi-auto with one round your are much better off than he is. If he didn't get you with the first shot AND you can keep your cool he is deader than fried chicken. 

[BruceVC]

27 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

LOL it's just simple economics Bruce. Ammunition is expensive and you want to hit your target right?  So lets work this out.

Assume an average person is firing a full auto AR class rifle, right handed,  in the offhand position. In full auto a 5.56mm chambered rifle fires one round every 0.5  seconds. It's actually a little less than than but we'll say a half second for the sake of simplicity. 

The #1 rule in rifle marksmanship is proper stock weld, sight picture, sight alignment. Doing this allows you to fire from the same firing point repeatedly.  That is the whole point. In semi-auto fire the shooter reacquires those three things before firing again. If they are doing that they are hitting their targets. 

An AR class rifle has an ejection port on the shooters right side. Now, the AR class captures most of the kinetic action of the recoil but not all so the shooters sight picture and sight alignment are disrupted after every shot. Add to that the gas and kinetic action of ejecting the spent cartridge to the right causes the rifle to move to the left and slightly upward after every round is fired.  The shooter MUST correct for this after every shot to fire accurately.

With me so far? OK, the average human reaction time according to human benchmark is 250 milliseconds. That is the time it takes the average brain to see, process, and decide on a corrective action. According to the marksmanship training in the USMC a well disciplined shooter can acquire stock weld, sight picture, sight alignment and fire a round in 416 milliseconds. So after firing a well aimed first round it takes 250 milliseconds to perceive the rifle is off target and 400 milliseconds to correct (rounding down since in full auto it's not necessary for the shooter to pull the trigger again) for a total of 650 milliseconds. 

Do you see the problem? Before the shooter can correct for the kinetic energy movement of the rifle the rifle has already fired another round. Now the rifle is even more off target and will require MORE than 650 ms to correct but before THAT can be corrected the rifle has fired again.... and again.... it gets worse and more off target with every cycle. 

Ever heard of spray and pray? THAT is what full auto is. .223 / 5.56mm will set you back about $1.50 a round right now. They are expensive!  Every round you miss was wasted!

Kidding aside full auto from a hand held rifle is only good for two things: killing people indiscriminately at point blank range or laying down suppressing fire to cover infantry movement. In either case accuracy is irrelevant. That's why they are practically illegal. In an actual firefight from 75 meters away if you are facing an opponent with a full auto rifle and a full magazine and you have a semi-auto with one round your are much better off than he is. If he didn't get you with the first shot AND you can keep your cool he is deader than fried chicken. 

I honestly didnt know most of that, I dont know much about the specifics of rifles and guns. Very informative, thanks for sharing. Where did you learn most of your gun knowledge, was it in the USMC  or because you are a responsible gun owner and have an interest? And did you know about guns before you joined the USMC?

[Guard Dog]

7 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

I honestly didnt know most of that, I dont know much about the specifics of rifles and guns. Very informative, thanks for sharing. Where did you learn most of your gun knowledge, was it in the USMC  or because you are a responsible gun owner and have an interest? And did you know about guns before you joined the USMC?

LOL I knew a LOT about firearms before going in the service. But it turned out most of it was wrong! 

Mainly just an interest in physics, engineering and firearms combined. 

[Gromnir]

we now got bruce on ignore, so only saw 'cause is quoted, but kinda found amusing to see wisconsin lumped in as liberal. milwaukee and the college towns is liberal, and biden got a narrow in in wisconsin, but the legislature is gop controlled and the wisconsin courts are almost cartoonish conservative. go to rural parts o' wisconsin (most o' the state from a geographic pov) and any true son o' the south is gonna feel right at home... save during the winter, when lake effect snow and bone chilling and pipe bursting cold is the norm.

only reason we bring this up is 'cause am suspecting many folks not from the US thinks northern states is more liberal than southern, and while such is kinda true is becoming less and less true every year as tech companies movie south and bring their employees with 'em, shifting a few southern states purple.

also am gonna note what gd's picture o' the doughnut/gun shop avoids showing you is the near guaranteed rack o' hats and t-shirts for sale emblazoned with the confederate flag. is one o' those reasons why red states is most assured not awesome.

HA! Good Fun! 

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

we now got bruce on ignore, so only saw 'cause is quoted, but kinda found amusing to see wisconsin lumped in as liberal. milwaukee and the college towns is liberal, and biden got a narrow in in wisconsin, but the legislature is gop controlled and the wisconsin courts are almost cartoonish conservative. go to rural parts o' wisconsin (most o' the state from a geographic pov) and any true son o' the south is gonna feel right at home... save during the winter, when lake effect snow and bone chilling and pipe bursting cold is the norm.

only reason we bring this up is 'cause am suspecting many folks not from the US thinks northern states is more liberal than southern, and while such is kinda true is becoming less and less true every year as tech companies movie south and bring their employees with 'em, shifting a few southern states purple.

also am gonna note what gd's picture o' the doughnut/gun shop avoids showing you is the near guaranteed rack o' hats and t-shirts for sale emblazoned with the confederate flag. is one o' those reasons why red states is most assured not awesome.

HA! Good Fun! 

While it's not true of all states it's mostly true. All states are red outside of the big cities and all states are blue inside of them. Take GA as an example. IIRC correctly Biden won just 6 or 7 of 159 counties. But they were Cobb, Gwinett, Doherty, Chatham, DeKab, Clayton and I think one more. Basically the overwhelming majority of Atlanta, Savannah, and Albany, three of the four big cities in the state. That was where the people are. The red vs blue maps of the USA look overwhelming for the GOP but the Dems win where lots of people live. The more concentrated a states population is in one or two metro areas the more likely that state is to be blue and vice versa. Florida is a good example of a red state with a lot of blue voters but stays red because the population is spread out over the entire state. The cities don't overwhelm the suburbs or rural areas with numbers.

I don't really think "red" states are better then "blue" for any objective reason. Every state has good things and bad going for them and against them. Except maybe New Jersey. It does pretty much suck. Although I prefer to live in states were the tax burden is minimized and the state government mostly leaves you alone. That tends to be red states not entirely coincidently. I wouldn't want to live in CA but that's mostly because it's really crowded and really expensive more than anything going on in Sacramento.

Anyway the donut, gun, and redneck hat store pic is in NC I believe. A purple state for the very reasons you named. But I just thought the dichotomy of guns and donuts sold in the same store was funny.