2021 Olympic Games Tokyo

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Sarex said:

I think he means that there are too little commercials and halftime shows happening. They have been conditioned to love that stuff.

Hah. I do recall one friend complaining about no bathroom breaks.  They've stopped it, but they actually used to show ads during the WC pre 2006, just a small screen in the corner. 

[ComradeYellow]

U.S.A. wins by one Gold Medal, strange comeback considering China was comfortably ahead until yesterday.  I call biased referees trying to keep the China down.

I played sports in school and have personal experience with biased refs so you can't tell me it's impossible.

Edited August 8, 2021 by ComradeYellow

[Malcador]

It was Soros' doing

[Sarex]

40 minutes ago, ComradeYellow said:

U.S.A. wins by one Gold Medal, strange comeback considering China was comfortably ahead until yesterday.  I call biased referees trying to keep the China down.

I played sports in school and have personal experience with biased refs so you can't tell me it's impossible.

I mean our semi final game against Spain in waterpolo was outrageous.

[Zoraptor]

The bad ref/ judging issue has got a lot better since Seoul with its ludicrous boxing tournament. That was too much even for Samaranch era IOC.

Glorious New Zealand 12 13th on the medal table (thanks Brazil, now we'll get three years of bad luck). Or 4th on the proper, per capita, measurement (and as some wag put it, the rest of the top of that table is the start of a Beach Boys song). For the next three years I will be able to live vicariously on the achievements of others, which is certainly the most low effort way to live.

Funniest result has to be Non Official Russia outperforming Official Russia's last 4 Olympics. Guess the moral of the story is to get caught BALCOing more often.

[HoonDing]

San Marino is first per capita, how ironic.

Edited August 9, 2021 by HoonDing

[Malcador]

21 hours ago, Gromnir said:

the tactical sophistication o' soccer is low compared to say american football. even the least observant fan o' soccer is gonna recognize the greater diversity o' skill sets 'mongst american football players compared to soccer players.

Can't really say the football player is much different than the American football player in terms of needing a broad skillset.  A CB needs to be able to tackle well, but should be able to position themselves correctly and that requires anticipation and reading the game, running an offside trap requires focus and co-ordination, for example.   A midfielder in a playmaking role has even more to do.  Football's being more continuous means the tactics are more set at the start, depending on how deep the coach goes - see Southgate in the Euro final for maybe going too deep into being cautious - the players on the pitch can only adapt so much.

 

21 hours ago, Gromnir said:

every single play in american football requires near perfect execution by all players on a team. failure results in either a penalty or more likely the exploitation o' the seeming innocuous blunder by the opposing team. 

soccer by comparison...

It's pretty much the same situation, most goals are scored due to a breakdown in defense or an individual mistake (see Arsenal), or just a well run play like a counter or through ball.

[Gromnir]

am thinking malc is doing a skarpen_one. compare a cb to a midfielder is not the point. the diversity o' skillset amongst the players on a US football team is greater. the offensive tackle is doing something complete different from the cornerback. even an person who has no knowledge o' american football and is only familiar with soccer is gonna recognize that the diversity o' skills on the football team is more extreme than on the soccer team.  ignoring the uniforms, an offensive tackle and cornerback appear to be playing complete different sports. the more distinct and diverse range o' skills adds a level o' tactical sophistication as does the functional restart o' gameplay every minute or so. us football has the same pre game and half time strategizing as does soccer, but a level o' sophistication is added 'cause is, to use gamer parlance, tb mode and using varied chess pieces as 'posed to real time with more uniform checkers... all o' which ignores fact we are having this discussion, which complete undermines your initial observation in the thread regarding American critiques o' soccer.

none o' which has anything to do with olympics but does reinforce our observation 'bout euro and kanadian sensitivities regarding their soccer.

so, check.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Malcador]

Wasn't comparing a CB to a midfielder, though, was describing the skillset one would need to be a 'good' one in each role.  For fun, check out the "roles" created over the years, heh, Mezzala vs BBM or stuff like a Segundo Volante or Regista.   Ah, but you meant diversity in terms of the team, had thought you mean each player would need to multi-task.   Never really watched Rugby, wonder how that would compare.

1 hour ago, Gromnir said:

none o' which has anything to do with olympics but does reinforce our observation 'bout euro and kanadian sensitivities regarding their soccer.

You think Canadians care about football ? Most of these cultureless WASPs only care about hockey.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Malcador

[Maedhros]

In recent years I got the feeling football is becoming more popular in the US than it is in Canada? No source.

Football is a very simple game, not as "tactically sophisticated" as American football - but it's reasonably complex in that there's no limitations on how "optimal" you can play (like all team sports I guess). Tactics play a big role, but it's more about the continous chaos of influencing and adapting. Both as a player, and as a team. Personally I dislike watching it, it's not a very tv friendly sport unless you follow a team (or happen to find a really tense and entertaining match). It's the most fun sport to play yourself though. I love that you don't have to be very olympian to be good at it.

[Malcador]

7 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

In recent years I got the feeling football is becoming more popular in the US than it is in Canada? No source.

Yeah, I think so as well. Here it will improve, there's a domestic men's league (still no women's which is funny given Canada's women's team being one of the top ones) finally.  Shame they'll never have relegation like other leagues do.

[Amentep]

1 hour ago, Maedhros said:

In recent years I got the feeling football is becoming more popular in the US than it is in Canada? No source.

It is, but I think it has more to do with time investment (US football game is now as long as a baseball game on tv; my memory may be cheating me but I don't recall that being the case back a few decades ago) and the fact that football is more similar to basketball which is probably as popular as its ever been.

[Gromnir]

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Wasn't comparing a CB to a midfielder, though, was describing the skillset one would need to be a 'good' one in each role.  For fun, check out the "roles" created over the years, heh, Mezzala vs BBM or stuff like a Segundo Volante or Regista.   Ah, but you meant diversity in terms of the team, had thought you mean each player would need to multi-task.   Never really watched Rugby, wonder how that would compare.

 

having played rugby almost as much as US football (technical more years, but fewer functional hours and not as high a level o' competition,) we would say diversity o' roles and specialization for football has the edge but not by a huge amount. there is more diversity and specialization in football, but even somebody who has never watched rugby is gonna recognize the skillset needed to play hooker is extreme different than scrum half. 'course in rugby you play defense and offense and even a prop may have dreams o' being the golden boot saviour. 

but again, and is unnecessary repetition, this continued discussion undermines your initial observation.

as for kanadian and euro observations regarding soccer, am necessarily limiting our self to this and other game message board. our yearly overseas trips during the last couple decades o' working were near complete limited to asia and eastern europe. not enough cross cultural sharing beyond game generalizations. 

as for US embrace o' soccer, is perpetual misleading. since the 70s, soccer has been, to all reasonable outside observations, increasing in popularity. the term soccer mom is not new. is an early 80's term for a trend started in the mid 70s. every US kid plays soccer in school, and am suspecting a large % o' suburban kids has played organized soccer. literal every decade since Gromnir were a kid there has been certainty soccer were growing in popularity and could finally breakthrough in terms o' reaching parity with at least hockey. thanks to title ix and the need for US universities to spend as much on women's sports as men's, am suspecting soccer will indeed continue to grow in popularity, but that success will also be perpetual misleading. 

unlike china, and virtual every other nation which competes regular in international sports, the US government does not direct fund and support our national teams or athletes. however, we do have a functional seed program for most olympic relevant sports: university athletic programs. counter-intuitive, as long as men's american football and basketball programs continue to be ultra funded, women's soccer will benefit. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Malcador]

11 minutes ago, Amentep said:

It is, but I think it has more to do with time investment (US football game is now as long as a baseball game on tv; my memory may be cheating me but I don't recall that being the case back a few decades ago) and the fact that football is more similar to basketball which is probably as popular as its ever been.

I'd have thought it'd be the savings in both money and space, as well.  Was interesting to hear people say why hockey's dying out in Toronto is (aside from the cost of gear and the leagues) people being in condos and apartments not having the space for all the stuff that goes with hockey, versus basketball or football.  Is still amazing how much they charge for footballs though. 

[rjshae]

2 hours ago, Maedhros said:

In recent years I got the feeling football is becoming more popular in the US than it is in Canada? No source.

Football is a very simple game, not as "tactically sophisticated" as American football - but it's reasonably complex in that there's no limitations on how "optimal" you can play (like all team sports I guess). Tactics play a big role, but it's more about the continous chaos of influencing and adapting. Both as a player, and as a team. Personally I dislike watching it, it's not a very tv friendly sport unless you follow a team (or happen to find a really tense and entertaining match). It's the most fun sport to play yourself though. I love that you don't have to be very olympian to be good at it.

The (huge) drawback of that "tactical sophistication" is that very little actual game time is spent in live action. The American football coaching staff typically gets half a minute to plan a few seconds of action. The net result is that the game lasts for three hours while only 18 minutes are spent in actual play. Fans are paying big money to sit on their hands while players just stand around.

For this reason I no longer watch American Football very much because the majority of the time is spent showing replays and ads. Its boring. Soccer, on the other hand, is usually much more active. There are tactical subtleties to the game, but you have to follow it for a while to notice them.

[Guard Dog]

The notion that soccer is not popular in the US should be considered debunked. It’s not the most popular sport. Probably never will be. But we do have one nationwide high-level professional league that’s doing quite well in terms of revenue and attendance. There are three lower tier leagues one of which USL, is nationwide.  It’s playing slightly differently then the folks in Europe might recognize. Promotion and relegation will never be a thing. The lower tier leagues have a mix of independent teams and farm teams for the MLS clubs. The product on the field is pretty decent. The team that wins the MLS championship would be a winning club in any league in the world. The one thing MLS has going for it is compared to the “big four“ The NFL, the NHL, MLB, and NBA, the cost to attend a game is quite a bit less. So it’s not inconceivable in the near future it could be one of the big for bumping one of the others, probably the NHL, out.

anyway, what I really came here to say is only 179 days until the Olympics starts again.

[Gromnir]

8 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

 The one thing MLS has going for it is compared to the “big four“ The NFL, the NHL, MLB, and NBA, the cost to attend a game is quite a bit less. So it’s not inconceivable in the near future it could be one of the big for bumping one of the others, probably the NHL, out.

 

what a curious observation. am recalling the world league o' the 90s. we saw a couple football games in the US and europe. attendance were relative cheap. ticket price were cheap in part 'cause that is what the market were perceived to be able to bear. if soccer were to become more popular, and were regular televised and networks could sell more advertising and players could demand bigger contracts and...

HA! Good Fun!

[Agiel]

1 minute ago, Gromnir said:

ticket price were cheap in part 'cause that is what the market were perceived to be able to bear.

If I didn't know better, you couldn't help but insert another Raising Arizona reference, which by the way is now free (with ads) on Youtube and is one of the Coen Brothers' most under-recognised flicks.

[Guard Dog]

12 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

what a curious observation. am recalling the world league o' the 90s. we saw a couple football games in the US and europe. attendance were relative cheap. ticket price were cheap in part 'cause that is what the market were perceived to be able to bear. if soccer were to become more popular, and were regular televised and networks could sell more advertising and players could demand bigger contracts and...

HA! Good Fun!

LOL name one enterprise that has not ultimately sabotaged it’s own success! Or became the thing it was an alternative to.

on second thought that’s not really a good comparison. The WFL was a weird duck right from the get go. And the country has never really had an appetite for any football other than NCAA or NFL. The graveyard of failed football leagues is big and has lots of headstones. There have been many versions of the MLS. So far this one avoided all of the mistakes the others made.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Gromnir]

4 minutes ago, Agiel said:

If I didn't know better, you couldn't help but insert another Raising Arizona reference, which by the way is now free (with ads) on Youtube and is one of the Coen Brothers' most under-recognised flicks.

*chuckle*

as it so happens, we were actual gonna use a vision quest clip link to address the limited time response to increased tactical sophistication, but am suspecting folks woulda' been too easily distracted by the pelé reference.

HA! Good Fun!

[Malcador]

36 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

The team that wins the MLS championship would be a winning club in any league in the world

I dunno about that.  In CONCACAF, perhaps.

[ShadySands]

2 hours ago, Maedhros said:

In recent years I got the feeling football is becoming more popular in the US than it is in Canada? No source.

Soccer was massively popular as a youth sport when I was a kid and I'm creeping up on 40 now. I don't think it'll ever be like it is in Europe because it's not part of our culture in the same way 

I played soccer growing up but as we got into higher grades you had competing sport schedules so you couldn't run track, play basketball, football, baseball, and play soccer so guess which sports most people dropped first when there was a conflict?

[Hurlshort]

I just wanted to add that hockey is better than all forms of football. 

[Gromnir]

Just now, ShadySands said:

Soccer was massively popular as a youth sport when I was a kid and I'm creeping up on 40 now. I don't think it'll ever be like it is in Europe because it's not part of our culture in the same way 

I played soccer growing up but as we got into higher grades you had competing sport schedules so you couldn't run track, play basketball, football, baseball, and play soccer so guess which sports most people dropped first when there was a conflict?

if you are Gromnir's age or younger, "Soccer was massively popular as a youth sport when I was a kid," could be the shared observation o' near 100% o' people from the USA. age 20, 30, 40, 50+? don't matter. soccer has been a popular youth sport and every decade people see it as increasing in popularity. 

same bat time. same bat channel.

at some point, and maybe a bit ironic, the folks who continue to play soccer are the same kids who play golf and tennis or whose parents drive 'em to morning swim practice or afternoon lacrosse. probable helps that the parents likely prefer the increasing exclusivity.

HA! Good Fun!

[Malcador]

11 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

I just wanted to add that hockey is better than all forms of football. 

Field hockey is pretty cool.