The All Things Political Thread (One thread to rule them all and in the darkness bind them)

[Guard Dog]

Speaking of politics and baseball. Out of the Park Baseball 22 is out and have apparently omitted the historical logos for the Cleveland Indians. The club has already dropped the "Chief Wahoo" image from it's branding. The game allows historical and fictional replays from past seasons. All MLB, MiLB, NL, IL, FED, etc teams are in the game. But only the Indians are missing the logos. There is a thread discussing that on their boards over there and it got ugly pretty quick as you might expect. 

Well, I can certainly see changing the logo in the modern era. It's actually worse than the Washington Redskins logo. And the ones from the 50's and before were even worse. But "sanitizing" historical logos in a game that sells itself as a historical sim seems kind of.... icky to me. Besides, the Indians were not even the worst of baseballs racist past. For 50 some odd years there was a team named "Atlanta Crackers". Does anyone need that term explained? There are numerous teams and logos from past years with Confederate references. And the Negro leagues names. Some of them were downright insulting to the players on them. Intentionally so. Sanitizing just the Indians seems off. Do it all or do none. The Atlanta/Milwaukee Braves guy is still in. I'd say do none. As someone pointed out over there the history is what it is. In the context of historical replay it's appropriate. 

Personally I didn't much care. It takes about 10 minutes to go find a logo and format it for the game. And this has nothing to do with the developers. The MLB owns the license and approves what logos get used and which ones don't. I'm just pointing this out because it struck me as interesting. 

[Malcador]

A baseball team's logo counts as history now ?

[Gfted1]

Why not? A swastika does.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

8 minutes ago, Malcador said:

A baseball team's logo counts as history now ?

It's more engaging than the game itself.

[Malcador]

14 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Why not? A swastika does.

Was mainly ribbing baseball fans, but have to say the swastika is a lot more significant.

10 minutes ago, ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP said:

It's more engaging than the game itself.

I dunno, we're setting too low a bar here....

 

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Malcador

[Guard Dog]

It sounds like the Atlanta Braves are also re-branding. They want to remove the racist imagery so now they will just be called Braves. 

Oh c'mon. It was funny when it was the Washington Bullets and it's funny now.

In all seriousness it sounds like that is in the works. If they choose any other name other than Hammers they are doing it wrong. A tip of the cap to Hank Aaron. Cleveland has had a ton of names before Indians. They could go with any of those. 

[Malcador]

Should call themselves the Atlanta Shermans

As for the Crackers, Wiki has a charitable explanation - The term cracker is derived from the Gaelic craic, meaning entertaining conversation or boasting, with the latter sense still attested in the idiom "not all it's cracked up to be."^[8] It was used in the 18th century to denote Irish and Scottish colonists of the Deep South backcountry. The Earl of Dartmouth had this to say in a 1766 correspondence: "I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by Crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascals on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, and Georgia, who often change their places of abode."^[8]"

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Malcador

[Guard Dog]

3 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Should call themselves the Atlanta Shermans

LOL now THAT is funny! Might not go over so well though. But hey there have been teams named "Flames" in town. 

[Malcador]

It'd be glorious, could count on Newsmax or something at least to have some article "LIBERALS name beloved baseball team after WAR CRIMINAL Sherman who comitted GENOCIDE"

[Guard Dog]

As far as crackers that’s not the definition I’ve always understood it to mean. The definition I got from a book I read on the minor leagues is the term was a slang for a slave overseer.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

23 minutes ago, Malcador said:

I dunno, we're setting too low a bar here....

Well it is baseball.

[Guard Dog]

OK, I know this is getting a little OT but what the heck. It's a video game forum and OOTP is my favorite game. Plus this might annoy AFKKP so here it goes! I wanted to take over the worst team in MLB history and see if I can turn it around. That team, of course, was the Washington Senators. First in war, first in peace, last in the American League. This was the version that became the Twins, not the one that became the Rangers. That one was bad but wasn't that bad. 

Well, wasn't having much luck because the Sens were strapped for cash in game just like in real life. That is until OOTP 18 included real historical minor leagues including the Negro Leagues. Now the way it works in game is the "color barrier" is in game until 1947 when Robinson goes to the Dodgers and everyone is fair game after. BUT, a player controlled team can break the barrier at any time. Well then, here I am in 1934 with a team that won just 41 games the previous season despite my best efforts. I went player shopping. The 1935 Sens had Josh Gibson, Buck Leonard, Satchel Paige AND Judy Johnson. And won 89 games a an AL pennant. 

People talk about how smart Branch Rickey was in signing Robinson. Can you imagine if Josh Gibson had gotten a chance? What the heck took so long?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Plus this might annoy AFKKP so here it goes!

I think you overestimate how much I take this forum seriously.

3 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

What the heck took so long?

They hated Black people more than they liked winning sports or money.

[Guard Dog]

4 minutes ago, ArtistFormerlyKnownasKP said:

I think you overestimate how much I take this forum seriously.

They hated Black people more than they liked winning sports or money.

Apparently so. I guess the notion of winning not just being the most important thing but the ONLY thing is a modern idea. I won’t even mention the idea that it’s fundamentally and morally wrong not to allow them to play. We already know they didn’t think so at the time.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Gromnir]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

LOL now THAT is funny! Might not go over so well though. But hey there have been teams named "Flames" in town. 

fred creighton was a friend o' ours. him and his wife marleen were two o' the nicest people we knew. 

HA! Good Fun!

ps added vid link

Edited April 7, 2021 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

9 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

fred creighton was a friend o' ours. him and his wife marleen were two o' the nicest people we knew. 

HA! Good Fun!

No kidding? That is pretty cool. 

[Gromnir]

33 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

No kidding? That is pretty cool. 

parents o' fred's daughter in-law live two doors down from us and they are nice too but they is also the most obtuse trumpers you are ever likely to meet. mrs. ___________ has/had cancer and her husband has chf, so we help 'em out in little ways such as taking their garbage cans to the curb on wednesday mornings and other little chores. the thing is, they refuse to get vaccinated. no point since the pandemic were never real. no surprise as they had a 12' wide banner attached to their fence facing the golf course to which their property backs. "trump 2020."  the couple gets miffed when Gromnir and others, who has not yet been vaccinated, refuse invitations to spend face-to-face time with mrs. ____________.  she is in her 80s for gawd's sake and again, she has had cancer recent enough that you never see her w/o her wig.

you can't help people who won't help themselves.

as an aside, have been obsessive checking for covid vaccination appointments in our area since april 1 when our age group became eligible. we got some health issues, so our doctor offered to get us vaccinated a while ago, but as am retired and not needing get w/i six feet o' people save extreme rare occasions, we decided to be patient and wait our turn, so to speak. more fool us.

https://www.mhealthappointments.com/covidappt

have been refreshing every thirty minutes for thirty mile radius from our zip code since april 1, and each time we get a "limited supply available" notification for a site, by the time we try and actual make an appointment, the supply is actual 0.

oh well. first world problems we s'pose. much o' the rest o' the world won't be vaccinated for a long time and Gromnir is complaining 'bout an extra week or two.

HA! Good Fun!

ps fred's nose, which were improbable, made obvious he were either a boxer or a hockey player during his younger years, and his accent made clear hockey were the anticipated culprit. serious though, most generous and friendly guy you were ever likely to meet.

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

I’m surprised he never got another gig in the NHL. I believe the flames were his only coaching appearance.

[ShadySands]

Bruins afterwards according to wikipedia. Just one season though.

[Gromnir]

15 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I’m surprised he never got another gig in the NHL. I believe the flames were his only coaching appearance.

he also coached the bruins. good record with boston, but fred and the boston gm did not agree on anything. gm fires fred and then makes himself coach for last fourteen games o' the season after fred had 'em 40/20/13.

HA! Good Fun!

ps am seeing shady sniped us.  also, am seeing fred were listed as 5'11". sure. we knew fred when he were a bit older and there were gonna be some shrinkage, but we looked down at fred.

 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

Didn’t know That. The only reason I knew his name at all actually is from a book I read about a year ago. Hockey Night in Dixie. It’s not about the NHL but the Atlanta flames and their minor-league affiliates are mentioned. The book is more about minor-league hockey in the southern states. I didn’t really follow hockey until the Florida panthers came into existence. So most of what I know of its history is books.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Guard Dog

[Gromnir]

10 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Didn’t know That. The only reason I knew his name at all actually is from a book I read about a year ago. Hockey Night in Dixie. It’s not about the NHL but the Atlanta flames and their minor-league affiliates are mentioned. The book is more about minor-league hockey in the southern states. I didn’t really follow hockey until the Florida panthers came into existence. So most of what I know of its history is books.

"so, what was it like to coach ray bourque?"

again, 'cause fred were good natured it were hard for us to be sarcastic 'round him. however, on more than one occasion when fred would reminisce 'bout ye good olde days, we would throw in the above query.  

the bruins gm, hard as it may be to believe today, didn't want to draft ray bourque. fred kinda pushed for ray and then when things turned sour 'tween fred and harry sinden, fred made mistake o' reminding sinden 'bout how fred saved sinden from passing on bourque. that were the end o' fred's bruin tenure.

go figure.

HA! Good Fun!

[Amentep]

4 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

As far as crackers that’s not the definition I’ve always understood it to mean. The definition I got from a book I read on the minor leagues is the term was a slang for a slave overseer.

I know it was used to reference poor whites in the south ("corn-crackers"). It's this use that Gary Cooper's character refers to Mari Aldon' character as a cracker in the 'Eastern' film DISTANT DRUMS (which, for film trivia buffs is also the source of the 'Wilhelm Scream')

It was also applied to anyone who used a whip in their job, which is how it became associated with slave overseers.

The use for Atlanta's minor league team is unclear, but they were the Atlanta Firecrackers in 1892, 3 years before they became the Atlanta Crackers. So it's possible it's a derivation of that, or it's a multilevel meaning.

Also meant Atlanta had a team called the Atlanta Black Crackers...

[Guard Dog]

7 minutes ago, Amentep said:

I know it was used to reference poor whites in the south ("corn-crackers"). It's this use that Gary Cooper's character refers to Mari Aldon' character as a cracker in the 'Eastern' film DISTANT DRUMS (which, for film trivia buffs is also the source of the 'Wilhelm Scream')

It was also applied to anyone who used a whip in their job, which is how it became associated with slave overseers.

The use for Atlanta's minor league team is unclear, but they were the Atlanta Firecrackers in 1892, 3 years before they became the Atlanta Crackers. So it's possible it's a derivation of that, or it's a multilevel meaning.

Also meant Atlanta had a team called the Atlanta Black Crackers...

Yep. They were in the NNL if I remember correctly. I did their caps and uniforms in that mod we were working on. Since posting that this morning I’ve been snooping around on the web. And you’re right the actual name of the crackers and what it was supposed to mean is unclear. For the majority of their life they were a part of the independent southern association. Unfortunately there’s not a lot of history on that. There’s a lot more on MLB affiliated teams and leagues.

[Guard Dog]

@Amentep if you are not playing 00TP you should be. I think you would like it. Anyone who likes the Football Manager series and likes baseball even a little bit would enjoy it. They have one for hockey too. Franchise hockey manager. It’s nowhere near as polished but it hasn’t been around all that long yet.