Politics... US election edition (2020 almost over, read all about it!)

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/07/capitol-hill-riots-doj-456178

One current Metro D.C. police officer said in a public Facebook post that off-duty police officers and members of the military, who were among the rioters, flashed their badges and I.D. cards as they attempted to overrun the building. “If these people can storm the Capitol building with no regard to punishment, you have to wonder how much they abuse their powers when they put on their uniforms,” the officer wrote.

I guess the old line "Some of those that work forces are the same that burn crosses" is still true.

[Raithe]

What's the difference between the US Capitol and Mordor?

One does not simply walk into Mordor.

[Guard Dog]

Do you wanna hear something funny? The closing days of the Trump administration is probably the first time in history that everyone who posts on this board generally agrees about something. 

[Pidesco]

15 hours ago, Skarpen said:

A sitting president blocked by corporations. You guys might vote for Biden, might end up with Kamala as "president" might elect a third party in the future, but this right there is establishing your new corporate masters that you are to afraid to oppose or stand up to. The US laws and rules will not be discussed and established in DC. They will be coming from Silicon Valley by a top priority email. And remember you chose this and you applauded to this. 

 

Corporations having influence in politics? What brave dangerous new world is this? Surely it is the first time that has happened, and now some sort of floodgates have been opened.

[Pidesco]

 

[melkathi]

So Trump tried to ban TikTok and got banned from TikTok instead?

[Gromnir]

1 minute ago, melkathi said:

So Trump tried to ban TikTok and got banned from TikTok instead?

HA! Good Fun!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

12 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

Corporations having influence in politics? What brave dangerous new world is this? Surely it is the first time that has happened, and now some sort of floodgates have been opened.

It's funny that apps like GrubHub and Uber Eats basically wrote their own law and got it passed in California last year but social media applying their TOS to an elected official from the US is what has some folks riled up.

3 minutes ago, melkathi said:

So Trump tried to ban TikTok and got banned from TikTok instead?

Is there a German word for this?

[BruceVC]

11 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

 

Corporations having influence in politics? What brave dangerous new world is this? Surely it is the first time that has happened, and now some sort of floodgates have been opened.

Hi Pidesco

How do you feel about the  Swedish experiment to control the virus? Most people say it was a failure ?

 How do you think it went and who is responsible for the failure . Azdeus feels its citizens but maybe you  feel its government because in SA they are suppose to manage the policy and they were inconsistent and allowed  SA citizens to travel and spread the virus 

What do you think Sweden  is going to do to now ?

 

[Amentep]

1 hour ago, KaineParker said:

Is there a German word for this?

Fremdschämen?

[Pidesco]

1 hour ago, BruceVC said:

Hi Pidesco

How do you feel about the  Swedish experiment to control the virus? Most people say it was a failure ?

 How do you think it went and who is responsible for the failure . Azdeus feels its citizens but maybe you  feel its government because in SA they are suppose to manage the policy and they were inconsistent and allowed  SA citizens to travel and spread the virus 

What do you think Sweden  is going to do to now ?

 

No one really knows if it is a failure. It didn't "went". It's still ongoing and it's way too early to draw any encompassing conclusions. Europe is hitting a new spike right now due to the holidays and things will get worse before they get better.

I guess there's one thing that can be said was a failure. Namely protecting the elderly in care homes at the start of the pandemic. It was terrible, and the Swedish authorities have admitted as much. 

Sweden right now is in process of setting up more restrictions, after passing a temporary law giving some emergency powers to the government. To begin they are limiting the number of people in businesses to 1 per every 10 square metres. Also children from the 7th grade up are being sent home, where schools have the resources in place to teach remotely. This is in addition to a requirement to use masks in public transport during rush hours. 

 

 

 

[BruceVC]

They moving quickly to arrest several people involved in the violence ....actually over 70 !!

They moving quickly and may charge them for sedition....what would that  mean and would that mean jailtime ?

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/several-people-nc-including-1-matthews-among-dozens-arrested-during-capitol-violence/K44EKOJSGJFVPJU6E66L2AUTEI/

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Pidesco said:

No one really knows if it is a failure. It didn't "went". It's still ongoing and it's way too early to draw any encompassing conclusions. Europe is hitting a new spike right now due to the holidays and things will get worse before they get better.

I guess there's one thing that can be said was a failure. Namely protecting the elderly in care homes at the start of the pandemic. It was terrible, and the Swedish authorities have admitted as much. 

Sweden right now is in process of setting up more restrictions, after passing a temporary law giving some emergency powers to the government. To begin they are limiting the number of people in businesses to 1 per every 10 square metres. Also children from the 7th grade up are being sent home, where schools have the resources in place to teach remotely. This is in addition to a requirement to use masks in public transport during rush hours. 

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing, I still want it to be a success because I like people of Sweden and they  always help other countries 

So its good it needs more time and you  absolutely right....the virus is spreading  exponentially in our countries. I know the people of Sweden are very caring about old people and in other countries citizens have also unintentionally  spread the  virus to old age homes and many elderly have died. It just seems one of the terrible mistakes or misunderstandings that sometimes happens  with this virus 

Nothing can make you feel better but its not just in Sweden 

 

[Maedhros]

13 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

No one really knows if it is a failure. It didn't "went". It's still ongoing and it's way too early to draw any encompassing conclusions. Europe is hitting a new spike right now due to the holidays and things will get worse before they get better.

I guess there's one thing that can be said was a failure. Namely protecting the elderly in care homes at the start of the pandemic. It was terrible, and the Swedish authorities have admitted as much. 

Sweden right now is in process of setting up more restrictions, after passing a temporary law giving some emergency powers to the government. To begin they are limiting the number of people in businesses to 1 per every 10 square metres. Also children from the 7th grade up are being sent home, where schools have the resources in place to teach remotely. This is in addition to a requirement to use masks in public transport during rush hours. 

 

 

 

It has been an ongoing failure though. Look at Sweden's numbers compared to Norway and Denmark. Tegnell was a fool to doubt the effectiveness of masks, and the new requirements came way too late.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1113834/cumulative-coronavirus-deaths-in-the-nordics/

Edited January 9, 2021 by Maedhros

[BruceVC]

10 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

It has been an ongoing failure though. Look at Sweden's numbers compared to Norway and Denmark. Tegnell was a fool to doubt the effectiveness of masks, and the new requirements came way too late.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1113834/cumulative-coronavirus-deaths-in-the-nordics/

Sorry to hear, do you blame government or citizen behavior ?

But once you implement the normal system it will be fine, yes the masks definitely need to be part of the approach

What was Tegnell reason for not using mask....what science was he trying to follow ?

[Darkpriest]

3 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Sorry to hear, do you blame government or citizen behavior ?

But once you implement the normal system it will be fine, yes the masks definitely need to be part of the approach

What was Tegnell reason for not using mask....what science was he trying to follow ?

Herd immunity, the issue is, this virus does not create a permanent immunity. People get sick second time and some even third by now. 

That's why I'm a bit skeptical whenit comes to the vaccine as the solution, unless it is some really good one. 

The virus adapds quickly, as the new more infectious form proves. 

It's not more leathal, although each infection leaves you permanently 'injured' in some extent. From changes in the heart tissue, lungs to changes in the brain. Effects and their severity can vary, but i think we can kiss goodbye to the permanent immunity. It's now a matter if we can keep winning a race with the mutations and the spread of the virus, so it will not be more of an issie than a regular flu. For that, we need effective medicine, that will not require people to be plced in hospitals en masse. 

[BruceVC]

1 minute ago, Darkpriest said:

Herd immunity, the issue is, this virus does not create a permanent immunity. People get sick second time and some even third by now. 

That's why I'm a bit skeptical whenit comes to the vaccine as the solution, unless it is some really good one. 

The virus adapds quickly, as the new more infectious form proves. 

I

Certain things do change with this virus but we mustnt panic and think our strategies dont work......they do work and the new strain is not able to resist oxford or the other one 

But Dark you must take the vaccine, it will protect you and will last about 6-8 months until you need another one

Dont let people confuse you and think the vaccine will not work.....I can guarantee you it will work. SA has been testing one of the vaccines and all the results are positive 

 

[Maedhros]

29 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Sorry to hear, do you blame government or citizen behavior ?

But once you implement the normal system it will be fine, yes the masks definitely need to be part of the approach

What was Tegnell reason for not using mask....what science was he trying to follow ?

The people will do what they're told. Trust in government and in experts is very high in Scandinavia. So the problem starts when the "expert" is wrong, like what happened in Sweden. When he tells people masks aren't necessary, people will listen to that. And when no one wears masks, no one wants to stand out in a crowd as one of the few who does so. As soon as masks became mandatory here in Norway (also too late, but way way quicker than in Sweden), everyone started wearing them immediately.

Edit: I believe his reasoning was that there wasn't any science that indicates masks helps (there is), and that masks would give people a false sense of security. That they then wouldn't care about social distancing.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Maedhros

[Darkpriest]

8 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Certain things do change with this virus but we mustnt panic and think our strategies dont work......they do work and the new strain is not able to resist oxford or the other one 

But Dark you must take the vaccine, it will protect you and will last about 6-8 months until you need another one

Dont let people confuse you and think the vaccine will not work.....I can guarantee you it will work. SA has been testing one of the vaccines and all the results are positive 

 

I do not doubt the vaccinations are a solution, i just do not think this first gen vac is the answer. I'll wait and see how it's effectiveness runs in the population. I'm not in the prio group, even though I could purchase my access into one, so by June 2021 there will be more real data. 

[Pidesco]

37 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

It has been an ongoing failure though. Look at Sweden's numbers compared to Norway and Denmark. Tegnell was a fool to doubt the effectiveness of masks, and the new requirements came way too late.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1113834/cumulative-coronavirus-deaths-in-the-nordics/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Norway and Denmark have rather low numbers of cases per capita, compared to other European countries. Norway in particular has been doing exceptionally. Sweden is rather average, not good but not terrible, and this is compared to other countries who went all in on masks and lockdowns. 

[Zoraptor]

2 hours ago, KaineParker said:

It's funny that apps like GrubHub and Uber Eats basically wrote their own law and got it passed in California last year but social media applying their TOS to an elected official from the US is what has some folks riled up.

Difficult to complain about something passed in a plebiscite, even if you strenuously disagree with how the plebs voted. Because there was a vote, and you either believe in the 'will of the people' (lolrofls) or not.

OTOH, Social Media wants those using their systems to be responsible for what is posted by 3rd parties via TOS but they themselves to be excluded from that responsibility via governmental TOS. They've applied their TOS selectively, they continue to apply their TOS selectively, they will apply their TOS selectively. Only reason Parler is going now is because Trump would potentially go there and bring a lot of people along with him. Should have made the whole thing inheritable, so if the root company ain't a publisher all those using its services can't be either and make them choose what they want.

The funny thing is that the sort of people who get riled up about Uncle Rupes' News Corp are absolutely fine with Dorsey/ Zuckerberg/ Bezos etc wielding more influence. Not as funny as Lindsey Graham complaining about the US looking like a Banana Republic considering how that sobriquet came about, but still, pretty funny.

[BruceVC]

18 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

The people will do what they're told. Trust in government and in experts is very high in Scandinavia. So the problem starts when the "expert" is wrong, like what happened in Sweden. When he tells people masks aren't necessary, people will listen to that. And when no one wears masks, no one wants to stand out in a crowd as one of the few who does so. As soon as masks became mandatory here in Norway (also too late, but way way quicker than in Sweden), everyone started wearing them immediately.

Edit: I believe his reasoning was that there wasn't any science that indicates masks helps (there is), and that masks would give people a false sense of security. That they then wouldn't care about social distancing.

You have raised such an interesting point, okay I didnt realize that was part of the Sweden approach. I imagine it must feel frustrating  but try not to dwell on the  past mistake of not wearing a mask, going forward is what you focus on

Its very unusual for your countries to get something this wrong.....but last question. So were people in Sweden and Norway going around without masks in the cities and how long did this last for.

I will tell you later about how terrible the SA is 

7 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Norway and Denmark have rather low numbers of cases per capita, compared to other European countries. Norway in particular has been doing exceptionally. Sweden is rather average, not good but not terrible, and this is compared to other countries who went all in on masks and lockdowns. 

Pidesco I know people dont always believe me but please  start wearing your  mask and forget what you thought in the past 

Its terrible when you see the virus spread and many people get sick and die.....and its too late in many countries like  SA . You can control the spread 

[Elerond]

23 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Norway and Denmark have rather low numbers of cases per capita, compared to other European countries. Norway in particular has been doing exceptionally. Sweden is rather average, not good but not terrible, and this is compared to other countries who went all in on masks and lockdowns. 

In some countries that did early lockdowns and mask, things went well until they removed restrictions, like for example

Restrictions help to prevent spread of the virus as long as people follow those restrictions. Which is why it is pretty impossible to say which would be best strategy to follow until the pandemic is over (given that it actually ends in some point)

 

Quote

Its very unusual for your countries to get something this wrong.....but last question. So were people in Sweden and Norway going around without masks in the cities and how long did this last for.

It really is not, but we have good PR teams and you only heard things that we have done right

Edited January 9, 2021 by Elerond

[majestic]

2 hours ago, Amentep said:

Fremdschämen?

Fremdschämen is something you do when someone else does or says something so incredibly stupid or embarassing that you feel ashamed by mere association.

[Malcador]

7 minutes ago, majestic said:

Fremdschämen is something you do when someone else does or says something so incredibly stupid or embarassing that you feel ashamed by mere association.

So every time I read a post here....