Zoraptor Posted October 28, 2020 Author Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) haha, I'm a muppet Since I managed to delete my own post, tldr version. 6800 is Navi21 with the same memory etc. AMD will only want to sell genuinely defective chips as 6800, if they can. They want to drive the value proposition towards the higher margins. If they have to choose recycling a chip or a 6800 they'll chose the 6800, if they have to choose between a 6800 or a 6800XT+ they'll want to choose the higher margin card. It should be a bit better than a 3070, and if AMD's claims are true brutally murder and dismember its corpse when it comes to memory bandwidth and quantity. Edited October 28, 2020 by Zoraptor
AwesomeOcelot Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 If your target is 4K 100fps, none of this generation can do that, with the games currently available, let alone games coming up. Even a 6900XT with RAGE MODE and Smart Access Memory (that does sound really interesting, I'm been hoping for a while that AMD leverage their CPU advantage), struggles to get average above 100, and you'd want lows to be that. Also you're giving up RT for that, which is bonkers. DLSS or some equivalent is the only way to achieve that, we'll have to wait for reviews to see if these GPUs have something like that. Although you would expect AMD to actually talk about killer features. AMD has always had segmentation issues. Vega 56 vs 64, R9 Fury vs X. I wonder if 6800 is a great overclocker, and they don't want to canibalize 6800XT sales if it's priced at $500. Especially if supply is as a low as I expect it to be. The only weird thing here is how AMD were effectively a generation behind Nvidia, why was RDNA2 not in competition with Turing. They're still a generation behind in RT performance. One of the benchmarks AMD is using is Young Blood, and if it's not using DLSS/RT/VRS then it's not really a fair comparison. No one running Ampere is going to be running with any of those off in my opinion. The game is going to look so much better.
Azdeus Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) If it get's acceptable RT performance I might have to get myself a 6900. It's almost more likely to get one than a 3080 it seems. Also "FPS (Up to)"? The hell is that supposed to mean.. Wouldn't that be measuring the spikes and not the average FPS? Edited October 28, 2020 by Azdeus Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
Zoraptor Posted October 28, 2020 Author Posted October 28, 2020 I don't think there's anything more behind the 6800 pricing than it being a rescue bin for failed chips and not wanting to cut down good chips for it without extra margin- similar to Radeon 7/ Instinct. One of the things that certainly did surprise me was the 6800 being 60CU and otherwise identical to both cards above it though, I definitely thought there would be a ~60CU 'native' chip. The same cache amount seems odd too, does a single error in the cache instantly result in a failed chip? Can't see it being a great overclocker, presumably some of the failed chips will be due to not being able to maintain clocks in general rather than outright failed hardware sections. I suspect exclusivity agreements are the reason for some features barely being mentioned. On paper, that raytracing is... better than decent, and they've said nothing about specialist hardware based raytracing being present. Technically, they just implied it wasn't by talking about the work being done by CUs instead of dedicated hardware, but it's a weird implication to make since it implies poor performance. OTOH, SAM and RAGE get mentioned because they are AMD techs and consoles use Zen2 which aren't compatible with them.
ComradeYellow Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) If I went absolutely insane and decided to switch to 'Red' (RAAAAAAGE Red BWAHAHAHA) I would definitely go with the 6900 XT. It's far smaller and cheaper than the 3900, so it would fit nice and snug in my mid-sized case (I despise full tower cases). I would have to buy a new monitor on top of that though, and I don't want to do that, it would have to be a guaranteed RT/DLLS performance blowout to even consider it. Edited October 28, 2020 by ComradeMaster
Azdeus Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) Quote [–]ShidellAMD RX 5700 XT 15 points 3 hours ago* Great find! I found this: https://github.com/microsoft/DirectX-Graphics-Samples/blob/master/Samples/Desktop/D3D12Raytracing/src/D3D12RaytracingProceduralGeometry/readme.md 2080Ti FPS: 390.62 Edit: Based on the results, some quick math:391/471 * x/100 = 471x/39,100 = (x = ~83) Roughly 17% faster ray tracing performance on RDNA 2, but each variant has a different amount of ray tracers based on CU; 6800 has 60, 6800 XT has 72, 6900 XT has 80, and we don't know which was used for this calculation. Edit 2: Based on results of u/NegativeXyzen scoring 630 FPS on their 3080: ~25% slower. RX 6000 Series (version unknown): ~17% faster than 2080Ti, ~25% slower than 3080. Of course this is just a demo; RX variant will play a huge role, drivers, etc. Stole this from the AMD reddit. Faster than the 2080Ti and Slower than the 3080. I wish that they had specified exactly which cards performance that was. If it was the 6900 XT ray tracing performance I'd be bummed, if it was the 6800 I'd be more interested. Well, we'll see the performance metrics when GamersNexus and similar get going. Edited October 28, 2020 by Azdeus Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
Zoraptor Posted October 28, 2020 Author Posted October 28, 2020 Yeah, it's a fair bit behind a 3080 whichever card it is, but If you said that any AMD card would have ~20% better raytracing performance than a 2080Ti 6 months ago most people would have thought you were licking toads or something. Best case scenario is probably that it's 6800XT, and if the AIBs can really get the clocks up to 2.4Ghz as some of the leaked benchmarks suggest that would make up a lot of the deficit to 3080 in raytracing (assuming clockspeed is the limiting factor, of course). 1
Azdeus Posted October 28, 2020 Posted October 28, 2020 14 minutes ago, Zoraptor said: Yeah, it's a fair bit behind a 3080 whichever card it is, but If you said that any AMD card would have ~20% better raytracing performance than a 2080Ti 6 months ago most people would have thought you were licking toads or something. Best case scenario is probably that it's 6800XT, and if the AIBs can really get the clocks up to 2.4Ghz as some of the leaked benchmarks suggest that would make up a lot of the deficit to 3080 in raytracing (assuming clockspeed is the limiting factor, of course). If it is the 6800, there's a good chance there'd be a decent performance uplift going to 6800xt or 6900 XT, but yeah, that's hoping for too much. And I should've pointed out that the SDK isn't a benchmark either, but atleast it gives us an estimate between the index finger and the elbow of what it could perform. Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
AwesomeOcelot Posted October 29, 2020 Posted October 29, 2020 That's in line with the 3d Mark leaks, RDNA2 has Turing level RT acceleration, therefore the 6900XT would be ~20-25% faster than 2080 Ti. The review guides sent out to tech sites suggest that RT is accelerated on each CU, like Ampere and Turing have a RT core on each SM. Nvidia has spent 2 years building support for DLSS and RT. The 6000 series will launch with 3 RT based games. By that time Nvidia will have over 20. I hope this motivates Nvidia to push out DLSS and RT even more. They also mention how their infinity cache speeds up the slow VRAM. Probably like the Xbox 360 sped up its RAM with ESRAM.
Zoraptor Posted October 29, 2020 Author Posted October 29, 2020 The cache is meant to be used in concert with very aggressive on chip culling to reduce data to/ from the memory. It's also a pretty obvious interim step towards chiplet/ mcm videocards, and has the side effect of reducing heat. The 16GB of memory is definite overkill, but it isn't that expensive and gives marketing advantages over nVidia. I'd happily have a gentleman's bet about AMD 'winning' the raytracing battle if you want. RTX will no doubt linger on as nVidia specific branding since they've invested a lot into it, but it's 'dead' as physX long term, for the same reasons. The only games that will have nVidia specific solutions will be where nVidia pays them specifically to block AMD- or at the moment Vulkan games*, since (ironically, after who made Mantle) the only full release raytrace module there is the nV one. Everything else will be plain old DXR (and Vulkan_RT when released). If the rumours about raytracing performance on AMD being ~2070/80 level were true I'd be more bullish on RTX's future but AMD has solidly leapfrogged Turing with their first try, and isn't that far behind Ampere. *So at the moment the only (?) RTX game that fundamentally cannot run on AMD's solution is Youngblood, since it's Vulkan, the rest use DX12U/ DXR. 21 hours ago, Zoraptor said: OTOH, SAM and RAGE get mentioned because they are AMD techs and consoles use Zen2 which aren't compatible with them. And since I complain about nVidia co-opting others' technologies with their branding per RTX I/O etc, should be pointed out that SAM is actually yet another MS tech this time with AMD branding, and should work on more than just Zen 3 CPUs including (theoretically) the nextbox.
Azdeus Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 @Keyrock I think you've mentioned using Linux? Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
Zoraptor Posted October 30, 2020 Author Posted October 30, 2020 That Linux tech has existed for a couple of years, iirc, and is theoretically vendor agnostic. In theory the MS/ Windows implementation is vendor agnostic too, but it's fair to say that AMD is likely to milk SAM for all it's worth anyway.
Keyrock Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Azdeus said: @Keyrock I think you've mentioned using Linux? Indeed. I've been one of those weirdos using Linux on the desktop for over 15 years now. Edited October 30, 2020 by Keyrock 1 RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks
Azdeus Posted October 30, 2020 Posted October 30, 2020 10 hours ago, Keyrock said: Indeed. I've been one of those weirdos using Linux on the desktop for over 15 years now. The only person that I know in person, so to speak, that uses Linux is, well, a bit of a weirdo. He works as a programmer, goes home to program som more to relax, go to a rave on the weekend, do some drugs, have an massive orgy and repeat. If I had his programming abilities I would've made a go at Linux, but I'm way way to stupid to even try Linux. And most definetly way to lazy, let's not forget lazy. 1 1 Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
Sarex Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 Wait, Keyrock goes to raves and has orgies? 1 "because they filled mommy with enough mythic power to become a demi-god" - KP
Keyrock Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 4 hours ago, Sarex said: Wait, Keyrock goes to raves and has orgies? What happens in The Queen City stays in The Queen City. 1 2 RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks
Jozape Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 The RX 6800 XT looks like a very good deal for its price got to give AMD that. Honestly can't think of a single game that I'm interested in that would actually benefit from it though, besides maybe Cyberpunk? I'm not a fan of CDPR's games to this date, so even that game I'm unsure about. Anyways this architecture looks promising for AMD's laptop APUs, would be nice to have something that can just play RPGs and maybe the occasional weird indie game on my laptop instead of having to use a separate desktop PC. I wonder if Rembrandt will have any of this "infinity" cache. 32 MiB maybe would be enough for a 1080p laptop? Also want to hear about this super resolution feature, should also be especially useful for laptops like Nvidia's DLSS.
ComradeYellow Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 27 minutes ago, Jozape said: The RX 6800 XT looks like a very good deal for its price got to give AMD that. Honestly can't think of a single game that I'm interested in that would actually benefit from it though, besides maybe Cyberpunk? I Cyberpunk is actually designed with Nvidia GPU's in mind. Borderlands 3 is like the shining current example of an AMD based game, games that are bright and colorful rather than dark and atmospheric.
Azdeus Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) Some leaked Ray tracing performance figures from Tomb Raider https://videocardz.com/newz/alleged-amd-radeon-rx-6800-time-spy-and-tomb-raider-with-dxr-performance-leaks-out That's not too bad really! Looking more like a 6900xt is on the table Edited October 31, 2020 by Azdeus Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
AwesomeOcelot Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 SotTR has a good DLSS implementation, there's no reason to not have it on at 4K. 3070 for this game is the pick all day long against the 6800 at $80 cheaper. 3 of the games benchmarked on AMD slides had DLSS 2.0. A significant amount of games have RTX implementations or DLSS. AMD needs an equivalent of DLSS to be competitive. SotTR is one of the more minimal RT implementations, there's going to be a few of them being launched with the consoles. RT heavy games favour Ampere over Turing. It's looking like the 6800 justifies it's price, and it could actually be the pick of the bunch from the 6000 series. If it OCs well then it will also be harder to get.
Zoraptor Posted October 31, 2020 Author Posted October 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Azdeus said: Some leaked Ray tracing performance figures from Tomb Raider https://videocardz.com/newz/alleged-amd-radeon-rx-6800-time-spy-and-tomb-raider-with-dxr-performance-leaks-out That's not too bad really! If it really is the 6800 nonXT I'd say it's better than not bad. That would have been very top end expectation for the 6900XT's RT performance, a week ago. I will be very highly amused if AMD has been sandbagging on the upscaling front as well. 1
Azdeus Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 33 minutes ago, Zoraptor said: If it really is the 6800 nonXT I'd say it's better than not bad. That would have been very top end expectation for the 6900XT's RT performance, a week ago. I will be very highly amused if AMD has been sandbagging on the upscaling front as well. The only reason why I'm holding back a little bit, is because the original source had some wonky settings on the computer, and as Babou hinted at Tomb Raider is fairly light on the effects, but still - to see it beat a 2080 natively is impressive! Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
ComradeYellow Posted October 31, 2020 Posted October 31, 2020 (edited) Yeah SotTR isn't a good GPU benchmark because it's way too CPU bound. I had to tinker with the settings quite a bit just to hit 96% GPU, and that included turning on Ray Tracing. And I have an 8 Core 5.1Ghz processor.... Still a tinge of hope, AMD's confidence and underhyping is a breath of fresh air. Edited October 31, 2020 by ComradeMaster
Totally not Gorgon Posted November 1, 2020 Posted November 1, 2020 So is Radeon the little engine that could again ?
Keyrock Posted November 15, 2020 Posted November 15, 2020 Over/under on 6800(XT) availability: 3 minutes What ya got? RFK Jr 2024 "Any organization created out of fear must create fear to survive." - Bill Hicks
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