Politics XXXVII (The 12th Prime)

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Honestly he just looks confused to me. Like Biden is rightfully mocked for losing his mind, but it wouldn't surprise me if Trump was revealed to have been suffering from dementia or similar for a while.

[Guard Dog]

9 hours ago, KaineParker said:

I whoever occupies the office in 2021 will be a mentally ill old man with questionable morals.

Absolutely correct

[Gromnir]

lindsey graham might disagree with you... well, pre-2016 lindsey. 

that said, some o' biden's groping incidents is indeed disconcerting. sure, the woman who recent accused biden o' sexual assault turns out to be a pathological liar and habitual mercenary, but biden's past relations with women is indeed worrisome. 

however, most o' the other nonsense such as burisma is just conspiracy theory fodder. 

which brings us to today...

Trump commutes longtime friend Roger Stone’s prison sentence

roger stone. roger stone?

please recall why stone were convicted... previously linked:

To put into context the events surrounding the sentencing of Mr. Stone, it is important to provide some background on the case itself and the basis for the charges that Mr. Stone obstructed and lied to Congress. I want to emphasize that in describing the proceedings against Mr. Stone that set the stage for his sentencing, I have limited myself to materials and filings that are a matter of public
record, including the testimony at Mr. Stone’s trial.

Roger Stone is a longtime friend and associate of President Trump. In the summer of 2016, Stone was considered by the Trump campaign to be the campaign’s access point to WikiLeaks. Throughout the summer and fall, Stone was in regular contact with the highest levels of the Trump campaign, which was relying on him for information about Wikileaks’s activities.

Beginning in spring 2016, Stone told senior Trump campaign officials that he had inside knowledge regarding WikiLeaks’s plans, and that he communicated with Julian Assange. Stone made these claims throughout the summer to Deputy Campaign Chairman Rick Gates, Campaign Chairman Paul Manafort, and Campaign CEO Steve Bannon. These men believed his claims, and they sought information from Stone about what WikiLeaks would do to help the Trump campaign. Moreover, as the summer wore on, the senior leadership found Stone’s predictions to be reliable. Manafort instructed Gates to keep in touch with Stone regarding WikiLeaks so that he could keep then-candidate Trump updated on Stone’s information. And the senior level of the Trump campaign began brainstorming a press strategy based in part on Stone’s predictions of a WikiLeaks release of documents that would be damaging to the Clinton campaign.

That summer, Stone reached out to both Manafort and Bannon, telling Manafort that Stone had a “plan to save Trump’s ass.” And in August 2016, Stone told Bannon he knew how to “win but this ain’t pretty.” Bannon responded, “let’s talk ASAP.” In this same time period, Stone also publicly bragged that he had a
backchannel to Julian Assange, and “therefore I am a recipient of pretty good information.”

On Friday, October 7, 2016, WikiLeaks began dumping into the public domain thousands of emails which the Russian government had hacked from Clinton campaign Chairman John Podesta’s personal email account. Minutes after WikiLeaks began releasing the hacked emails, one of Trump campaign CEO
Bannon’s aides texted Stone, “well done.” That weekend, Campaign CEO Steve Bannon himself heard that Stone was involved in the WikiLeaks release of the hacked emails.

And that summer, Stone wasn’t just talking to the CEO, Chairman, and Deputy Chairman of the campaign. He was talking directly to then-candidate Trump himself.

On June 14, 2016, the Democratic National Committee (DNC) announced that it had been hacked earlier that spring by the Russian Government. That evening, Stone called Trump, and they spoke on Trump’s personal line. We don’t know what they said.

On July 31, Stone again called then-candidate Trump, and the two spoke for approximately ten minutes. Again, we don’t know what was said, but less than an hour after speaking with Trump, Stone emailed an associate of his, Jerome Corsi, to have someone else who was living in London “see Assange.”

Less than two days later, on August 2, 2016, Corsi emailed Stone. Corsi told Stone that, “Word is friend in embassy [Assange] plans 2 more dumps. One “in October” and that “impact planned to be very damaging,” “time to let more than Podesta to be exposed as in bed w enemy if they are not ready to drop HRC. That appears to be the game hackers are now about."

Around this time, Deputy Campaign Chairman Gates continued to have conversations with Stone about more information that would be coming out from WikiLeaks. Gates was also present for a phone call between Stone and Trump. While Gates couldn’t hear the content of the call, he could hear Stone’s voice on the phone and see his name on the caller ID. Thirty seconds after hanging up the phone with Stone, then-candidate Trump told Gates that there would be more information coming. Trump’s personal lawyer, Michael Cohen, also stated that he was present for a phone call between Trump and Stone, where Stone told Trump that he had just gotten off the phone with Julian Assange and in a couple of days WikiLeaks would release information, and Trump responded, “oh good, alright.” Paul Manafort also stated that he spoke with Trump about Stone’s predictions and his claimed access to WikiLeaks, and that Trump instructed Manafort to stay in touch with Stone.

In his written answers to the Special Counsel’s Office, President Trump denied remembering anything about his conversations with Stone during the summer of 2016, and he denied being aware that Stone had discussed WikiLeaks with anyone associated with the campaign. One week after submitting his written answers, President Trump criticized “flipping” witnesses and stated that Stone was “very brave” in indicating he would not cooperate with prosecutors. The Special Counsel’s Report stated that the President’s statements complimenting Stone “support the inference that the President intended to communicate a message that witnesses could be rewarded for refusing to provide testimony adverse to the President[.]”

2. Stone’s False Testimony to Congress

Given that Stone had publicly stated he was in contact with Julian Assange in the summer of 2016, the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI) called him as a witness in its investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election. The HPSCI investigation sought to understand what Stone knew about WikiLeaks, how he heard about it, and what he told the Trump Campaign. Stone repeatedly lied to the committee about these matters. First, Stone claimed to Congress he didn’t have anything in writing that related to Julian Assange – no emails, texts, documents, or anything at all. In fact, he had hundreds of such communications.

Next, Stone lied to Congress about his intermediary to WikiLeaks, insisting that his public statements in August 2016 about an intermediary to Assange referred to Randy Credico – never naming Jerome Corsi, who had told him in August about the game “hackers were about,” and that they planned more dumps, including in October. Stone further testified that he had nothing in writing with his intermediary, and that his intermediary was “not an email guy.” when Stone actually had hundreds of messages with both Corsi and Credico.

Lastly, Stone repeatedly lied to the Committee about his contacts with the Trump campaign. Stone testified that he’d never discussed his WikiLeaks intermediary with anyone involved with the Trump campaign. But Stone had extensive discussions involving the information he was receiving about WikiLeaks throughout the summer and fall with Manafort, Gates, Bannon, and Trump. Rather than disclose this information, Roger Stone chose to lie. As Judge Jackson noted at sentencing, those lies hindered the efforts of Congress to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election: Mr. Stone lied, and he said he had no documents, no emails or texts with his claimed intermediary with Julian Assange; no emails or texts with people associated with the campaign concerning his contacts with WikiLeaks. So the committee did not issue a subpoena for the trove of material Stone had in his possession and lost that opportunity to consider them and to delve further. They spent considerable resources and they wasted them going after Credico as the supposed intermediary. They lost the benefit of his testimony when he acceded to pressure from Stone not to testify, and they didn't hear from Corsi, who wasn't identified by Stone at all. This obstruction lead the committee to reach incorrect conclusions about the lack of evidence that would contradict Stone's claims.

Judge Jackson also rejected the notion that Stone had been prosecuted “for standing up for the President. He was prosecuted for covering up for the President.”

Stone’s criminal conduct did not stop with his lies to the Committee.

Following his congressional testimony, Stone embarked on an extended month long campaign of witness intimidation and obstruction of justice targeted at Randy Credico. Stone tried to get Credico to go along with his lie that Credico had been his backchannel to Wikileaks in August 2016. Stone repeatedly told Credico to do a “Frank Pentangeli” – a character in the Godfather Part II, who lies to a congressional committee to save Don Corleone from getting prosecuted for perjury.

When Credico refused Stone’s pressure, Stone threatened Credico, telling Credico to “prepare to die.” And Stone promised that if Credico didn’t keep quiet, Stone wouldn’t just ruin Credico’s life, he would ruin the life of Credico’s friend, an attorney, by filing a bar complaint against her. In response to such threats, Credico told HPSCI he would invoke his Fifth Amendment rights if called to testify. Then, fearful of what Stone’s associates might do to him, Credico moved out of his house and wore a disguise when going outside.

end

other Presidents, in the days before they leave office, commute sentences or hand out pardons which may be questionable deserved. this thing with stone is an order o' magnitude different and is done months before an election?

won't affect trump base... not at all. 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited July 11, 2020 by Gromnir

[Guard Dog]

Is it really so different than Clinton pardoning Marc Rich? There are naught but rats in the sewer. Trump IS  worse than Biden. Maybe even worse than Clinton. But only by degree in terms of ethics.  Or mybe just more brazen in his ignorance. I'll take incompetent over corrupted when given the choice but all I see is a helping of both. 

The US is fresh out of John McCains I'm sorry to say. I won't vote for either. To hell with them. 

[Raithe]

[Volourn]

Stone's pardon is funny on so many levels. First, his conviction was laughably political - his guilt or innocent was irrelevant. Second, I believe Presidents shouldn't be allowed to pardon. However, the whining that Trump is 'disrespecting' the law is disrespecting the law since it is the law that allows him to pardon people.

[Gromnir]

3 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Is it really so different than Clinton pardoning Marc Rich?

...

yes.

...

you did see where stone threatened witnesses, yes? hell, not only did stone threaten to have persons killed if they would testify 'gainst him, but he threatened to torture one guy's dog as well... and though the threat o' violence 'gainst animals is a trivial thing at law, am certain gd feels different. 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

So.. a latino owned food company is being  'boycotted' because Trump hates latinos….. HAHAHA.

[Orogun01]

8 minutes ago, Volourn said:

So.. a latino owned food company is being  'boycotted' because Trump hates latinos….. HAHAHA.

Who's doing the boycottt? Everyone around me still buys Goya or never did (It's the cans, we don't like the cans)

[Volourn]

AOC is leading the charge, I guess.

[Guard Dog]

They are boycotting Goya? Sounds like I could use a case of beans. I go against ALL boycotts. Except McDonalds. I've been boycotting them for 15 years because their food tastes terrible. 

[Orogun01]

33 minutes ago, Volourn said:

AOC is leading the charge, I guess.

I really have contentious relation with uppity second generation Latinx or whatever they call themselves to virtue signal. They're better off being dismissed as Gringos, please don't bunch immigrants with them.

[Guard Dog]

1 hour ago, Orogun01 said:

I really have contentious relation with uppity second generation Latinx or whatever they call themselves to virtue signal. They're better off being dismissed as Gringos, please don't bunch immigrants with them.

When I was living in South Florida I worked with a guy who came from Cuba the "hard" way back in the 80's. He once told me the angriest he's ever been was when his teenage daughter, who had lived in the US her entire life, came home from college telling him his stories about Cuba weren't true and he didn't know what "real communism" was. 

[Orogun01]

3 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

When I was living in South Florida I worked with a guy who came from Cuba the "hard" way back in the 80's. He once told me the angriest he's ever been was when his teenage daughter, who had lived in the US her entire life, came home from college telling him his stories about Cuba weren't true and he didn't know what "real communism" was. 

Yep, that pretty much sums it up.

[Elerond]

3 hours ago, Orogun01 said:

I really have contentious relation with uppity second generation Latinx or whatever they call themselves to virtue signal. They're better off being dismissed as Gringos, please don't bunch immigrants with them.

Isn't AOC Puerto Rican descent, meaning that I don't think that her family tree has any immigrants (to USA)

[Gromnir]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

When I was living in South Florida I worked with a guy who came from Cuba the "hard" way back in the 80's. He once told me the angriest he's ever been was when his teenage daughter, who had lived in the US her entire life, came home from college telling him his stories about Cuba weren't true and he didn't know what "real communism" was. 

have mentioned on these boards how there is few things dumber than a university student in their first couple years. just enough education to convince selves they have answers to all the big problems w/o any kinda life experience or wisdom to temper their profound ignorance.

that said, collective (not individual) we like university underclassman and don't mind their mind blowing stoopid.  those morons is just learning to ask questions and they demand answers. fact they ain't earned answers and is often asking wrong questions don't stop 'em, and am thinking that is a good thing. is young, stoopid and unreasonable who change the world 'cause older folks and educated folks is actual reasonable... reasonableness is the death o' all social progress.

collective we applaud the brobdingnagian stoopid college underclassmen who improbably and against all odds has carried the nation into the future more than once. 

individually... individually, dealing with a university underclassmen who has taken a couple classes and now thinks they know is a kinda personal nightmare. 

aside:

am not getting the folks dismissive o' the stone commutation. stone's crimes were covering Presidential dirt. stone were convicted o' covering for the President. but for curious doj memo which states a sitting President cannot be charged with federal criminal in time of office, the stone conviction would be an obvious first step in prosecuting trump for lying to muller... and lying to fed investigators is what were breaking point for many during the clinton investigations. 

have never had a President commute sentence or Pardon an individual for covering up same President's dirt.  is corrupt. is, at common law, abuse of power. however, Pardon power o' the President, regardless o' what pelosi says, is unbounded and may not be limited by a Congressional act-- is no law Congress may pass to prevent same happening in future... and this is exact among the examples given by framers as to why impeachment is vital. hopefully voters will do what Congress cannot.

"legal" and "corrupt" is not mutual exclusive terms. such an observation is not directed at gd, but have heard pundits mention how President has legal authority to pardon stone, as if such recognition makes the act less odious. legal should never be read as "right." 

HA! Good Fun!

ps  for many years our board signature were as follows: 

"the reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- george bernard shaw.

shaw woulda' been just as annoyed as is Gromnir with ignorant and unreasonable, but am nevertheless recognizing how our hopes for future may hinge on those clowns.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Gromnir

[HoonDing]

"When I was living in South Florida I worked with a guy who came from Cuba the "hard" way back in the 80's. He once told me the angriest he's ever been was when his teenage daughter, who had lived in the US her entire life, came home from college telling him his stories about Cuba weren't true and he didn't know what "real communism" was.  "

 

send her back

[Hurlshort]

2 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

When I was living in South Florida I worked with a guy who came from Cuba the "hard" way back in the 80's. He once told me the angriest he's ever been was when his teenage daughter, who had lived in the US her entire life, came home from college telling him his stories about Cuba weren't true and he didn't know what "real communism" was. 

Missed opportunity there. Teenagers are going to be naive and think they know everything. That is the way the youth works, and it can be great. The idealism of youth can be wonderful. It needs to be tempered with realism, but that is where being an adult parent comes in. Instead of getting angry, it should have been used as a teachable moment.

[ComradeYellow]

Howie Hawkins is the Green Party nominee.

I mean really?  They rigged the primary process to keep Jesse Ventura out because they said he "wasn't a real Green".  I mean wtf does that even mean?  The GP is supposed to be about Grassroots, transparent democracy as its most sacred value and these elitist insiders are just in it for a job and narrative control.

We had a golden opportunity here to grow the party and actually win an election and they blew it because of DNC infiltrators and their desire to keep the party small and cultish.

Our country is doomed.  Racism and corporatism will remain the de-facto ideologies as the whole country/world falls apart.

Screwed, no escape, the Green Party is the only party with the values and principles to heal democracy, the people, and the globe and the insiders blew it.

[Guard Dog]

@Gromnir Ford pardoned Nixon. The bar is already sunk too low. And Ford was an honorable man. Not the same I know. Nixon did not help Ford become President. Well.... actually he did but you know what I mean. 

[Guard Dog]

I seem to remember Colin Kaepernick wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt and talking about human rights without even and inkling of the irony. Hayek said it best, more dangerous than ignorance is the pretense of knowledge. 

[Gromnir]

Americans’ Aversion to Mask-Wearing Is Holding Back the Economy

apologies for msn link, but bloomberg is paywall, yes?

"Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas President Robert Kaplan said Friday that U.S. growth would be faster if all Americans wore masks. Goldman Sachs Group Inc. estimates a national mask mandate could prevent the U.S. from losing almost 5% of its gross domestic product."

no shirt, no shoes, no mask, no service.

@Guard Dog

if nixon were covering for fact ford were the real mastermind behind the watergate break-ins and obstructionist actions which followed, you would have a point. ford were committing political suicide, but he didn't want to see the nation torn apart by the partisan p00p show which woulda' followed if nixon were convicted. ford's pardon were against self interest.

HA! Good Fun!

[Guard Dog]

38 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

.

shaw woulda' been just as annoyed as is Gromnir with ignorant and unreasonable, but am nevertheless recognizing how our hopes for future may hinge on those clowns.

I'm not sure there is any. I'm not sure our nation can be saved from the inevitable implosion. I'm not sure that it deserves to be. And you and I both know what happens when the buying power of the consumer is reduced to near zero. When an economy fueled by consumption runs out of gas. There is no outcome of the election this year, in two years, or four what will do anything but make this worse: https://www.usdebtclock.org/

There is another inevitability although farther down the road. The day is approaching there will be far more people than employment opportunities. The steps we are taking to socially distance, specifically working remotely, are only the beginning of a trend. If a bunch of knuckleheads like the folks I work for are realizing the cost savings of not running offices you know the places where  expenses actually matter. COVID along with 5G deployment will see this trend kick into overdrive. How will a US government that has utterly bankrupted itself with stupidity deal with that? 

They won't. 

[Guard Dog]

59 minutes ago, Hurlshot said:

Missed opportunity there. Teenagers are going to be naive and think they know everything. That is the way the youth works, and it can be great. The idealism of youth can be wonderful. It needs to be tempered with realism, but that is where being an adult parent comes in. Instead of getting angry, it should have been used as a teachable moment.

I wonder how a jew that escaped Auschwitz or Treblinka would react to a daughter or granddaughter that come home from college denying the holocaust happened. There is a school of thought in the US that very much wants to erase communism's sins and exalt it into something it never was to suit a political end. 

[HoonDing]

is something ends in -ism its prolly gonna suck