Politics XXXVI (will catch up to superbowls soon)

[Volourn]

You spammed a chart that doesn't at all disprove what I wrote. Why did you waste everyone's time with it? 

 

BBC? You mean that British FAKE NEWS. They got no clue what's going on. Neither does FOX. None of the mainstream media does. I pay attention to videos from people there including the ones that I noticed nobody  here commented on -0 the one whose sister was murder. Not to mention the numerous minority people whose stores have been broken and they'v ebeen beaten.

I'm betting the number of right winger sinvolved in this is tiny. Why would right wingers attack the police when they supposedly love the police? On top of that, if this was just one big rigth wing consopiracy why would the Dem governors/mayors not want to crush them like good - nobody likes extreme right wingers and nobody really makes excuses for them. Also, why are left wing celevs bailing people out of jail? Celebs aren't gonna bail KKK members out.

 

P.S. saw your link. THREE 'suspected' right wingers. THREE. Out of how many people arrested? THREE. That's your big gotcha moment? But, hey, blame those three powerful KKK members for  a black store owner being murdered by black rioters, right? It is their fault. COME ON.

 

Sure, I'll believe  some extremist right wingers are doing stuff. But, they surely aren't the majority  in that nonsense.

 

  These reporters and mayors like to lie. Like the one mayor who claimed 'almost all' those arrested were out of staters… it then turned out he was lying and the arrested were overwhelmingly local.   He of course excused it as a 'mistake' but we all know he flat out lied before having the facts.

 

P.S. I love that article about former Miss Universe Maylasia. Makes me chuckle.

 

 

It's just too bad that people no longer care about what happened to Floyd. Or the multiple minority people being murdered right now under the pretext of 'peaceful protesting'. L0L

[Gorth]

I'll put a little 'V' sticker on the side of my c0ckpit, I think I managed to rile @Volourn up

 

So,  tl;dr; you either don't understand the bigger picture or deliberately ignore it, focusing on the symptoms rather than the causes. Your choice. Don't accuse me of cherry picking info though, I never said the instigators were all far right, only that recent arrests were. You're the one jumping to conclusions and putting words in my mouth. All I wanted to point out was the official story wasn't the whole truth. This stopped being about Floyd the same day he was murdered.

 

Videos from people there, whether pro shots or phone images have an agenda and a narrative too, just like everybody else. It may be a different perspective, but they still have a story they want to tell. If you focus only on those, you will still only see a limited part of what is going on.

 

Rage isn't rational.  Populists thrive on rage because it can be manipulated and directed. That's how it works. Point at someone and yell witch and watch enraged people lose their heads and grow violent without thinking. Ask yourself, who benefits from it? Probably a surprisingly large number of people and interest groups. None of them giving a damn about the victims.

 

 

[Volourn]

Nah. I'm relaxing at home as the gov't pays me to stay away from work. I'm kewl with that. 

 

So.. the girl whose sister was murdered has an agenda? You do realized, they're of mixed race, and the sister was a protestor but had chosen to leave 'cause she flet it was getting to violent and that's when she got shot. Watch that video and tell me the sister has some sort of diablocal right wing KKK Nazi agenda? L0L

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

1 hour ago, Gorth said:

If you say so...

The US Census declared that in 2014 14.8% of the general population lived in poverty:

10.1% of all white non-Hispanic persons
12.0% of all Asian persons
23.6% of all Hispanic persons (of any race)
26.2% of all African American persons
28.3% of Native Americans / Alaska Natives

So in absolute numbers, maybe. But not really. Minority demographics might feel disproportional numbers of them are affected. Coincidentally also a larger percentage of those groups that feel a systemic discrimination against them.

 

Edit: As for the agitators and extreme violence perpetrators... I read Trump blames the far left and antifa and what have you. But then, he's not exactly known for his cognitive abilities. I'll take BBC News words over his (and Fox) any time of day when they say recent arrest were members of the far right community, throwing molotov ****tails at the police (at the 9:08 paragraph) https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-52903545

 

The feds don't even think the far left and antifa were behind it...but some far right group wanted to attack the agents and shoot protesters with automatic weapons. I wonder why the 3%ers, Proud Boys, and the various militias haven't gotten the same attention from politicians and media types?

https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/antifa-trump-fbi

[Gorth]

1 hour ago, Volourn said:

Nah. I'm relaxing at home as the gov't pays me to stay away from work. I'm kewl with that. 

 

So.. the girl whose sister was murdered has an agenda? You do realized, they're of mixed race, and the sister was a protestor but had chosen to leave 'cause she flet it was getting to violent and that's when she got shot. Watch that video and tell me the sister has some sort of diablocal right wing KKK Nazi agenda? L0L

No, I won't tell you. But I'll speculate (because I don't know), that those who murdered her had an agenda. As for which one, it could be racism, it could be to keep the unrest going or even escalate it. One thing we can hopefully agree on is, people can be scumbags.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

https://www.grandforksherald.com/opinion/6520779-Port-Fargo-Deputy-Chief-sends-apology-email-after-he-was-seen-at-George-Floyd-protest-with-a-beer-can-cursing-at-law-enforcement

lmao

[Volourn]

"Second, do we know the beer can was empty? Osmundson says it was, and even if it was, he was pantomiming a crime. It is not legal to carry an open alcohol container around downtown Fargo. "

 

People are literally being murdered and the took the time to discuss he may or may not have illegal had an empty (or full) beer can in public. LMAO

 

LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP!

 

P.S. He is a douchebag who should be ****canned.

[Raithe]

Well as they continue to consider how to shift public perception... Gizmodo - Minneapolis cops sued for shooting, beating, and gassing over a dozen journalists

[Raithe]

Shared from a friend:

For my friends who are in the thick of this or know people who are:

Let's talk about KETTLING.

...

Kettling is a crowd control tactic that's getting talked about a lot right now, but it's been part of the police toolkit for a very long time. When police officers "kettle" a protest, they block it off into a small, confined area, and often shrink that area smaller by pushing in the sides of it. There are word-of-mouth reports right now that police may kettle peaceful protesters, then wait for curfew to hit and break out the teargas, etc, etc.

Luckily, because kettling has been around for a long, long time, there's a lot of ways to handle it! As your friendly neighborhood teacher who kinda sorta wrote their Master's thesis on protest tactics at Occupy Atlanta, I'm happy to relate some stories and thoughts on kettling! All stories and thoughts are related purely for academic/philosophical interest. I do not advocate doing anything to interfere with the police at a protest, oh no.

ONE: Wise protesters come prepared to be stuck. You don't wanna get kettled, but you might. You're gonna be a lot less scared of it if you have a plan in place for how to handle it. Wise protesters bring snacks. They bring water. They bring warm layers, and a battery charger for their phones, and a bottle to piss into. This is all in case of a "quiet" kettle, in which police officers herd you into a confined space and wait you out.

TWO: wise protesters don’t let the threat of a kettle spook them away from a protest. Kettles are actually hard to form and maintain. However, police will act like they are ABOUT to kettle protesters so that people will leave.

THREE: wise protesters avoid parks, plazas, etc. These are spaces MADE for kettling. Demonstrate on large open streets. Stay in motion. If there are side streets, flow around them. You can only kettle protesters if they’re already clumped together.

In San Francisco, Civic Center is a PRIME example of a good kettling location. You can pack thousands of protesters into Civic Center easily without disrupting traffic. Use broad streets like Market or Mission instead. EDIT: a commenter pointed out that streets with long blocks and no alleys (such as Howard and Folsom in SF) are often used to corral protesters - look for streets with escape routes!

FOUR: smart protesters communicate by twitter Instagram etc to keep the protest mobile. If the police are beginning to form a kettle at UN Plaza, protesters can disperse and recombine at Market Street. When they start trying to block Market, flow out and take Mission. Protesters prepare to stay in motion; to break into pieces and reform continuously. They have a backup plan with their friend group for where they will reconvene in case they don't have phone signal.

FIVE: Social distancing is your FRIEND here. If it’s hard to maintain six feet between you and fellow protesters, then your crew is close enough to be kettled! Skedaddle down side streets until you have some space! Remember to set up a meeting point for where you will reconvene with your personal affinity group.

SIX: wise protesters remember to pack some brightly colored street clothes. When they escape a nigh-kettle, they slip into something that doesn’t look “protester-y” and WALK briskly, don’t run, to another location. You’re just an essential worker trying to get home from work, nothing to do with all this, no way. I've seen protesters pack brightly colored polo shirts that look like the worker uniform of certain big box retailers so they can slip it on as a visual excuse.

SEVEN: Except in rare cases - police horses are INCREDIBLY well trained. They move through very crowded spaces full of loud people without spooking. A police horse is VERY unlikely to hurt you. Police horses are broken out in the event of kettling or dispersal maneuvers because they are big and scary. But they are NOT war horses, and a mounted officer is a hell of a lot less useful in the street than an officer on foot. THEIR PRIMARY SKILL IS INTIMIDATION. Be stalwart and brave. Wise protestesrs may run from a phalanx of riot cops. They don’t run away from the horses.

EDIT: but also, don't try to grab a horse, don't try to touch a horse, don't try to get in a confrontation with a horse. The horse won't start a fight with you, but if you start a fight with it, the horse will win. And it might take some of your ribs or the structural integrity of your skull with it.

EIGHT: many protesters carry medical shears, scissors, or wire cutters. That's because the preamble to kettling is often erecting metal barricades across easy flow points. These barricades are usually just held together with zip ties, though! If someone cuts those zip ties, a protester could knock the barricade right over. At Occupy Atlanta, I saw one protester quietly, discretely following behind as the barricades went up ... and snipping the zip ties one by one. He did it while acting like he was still just chatting with friends. This meant the police assumed the barricades were still tied together ... though they were not.

ALSO, sometimes for some reason, some of your comrades might end up with their hands ziptied behind their backs, which can be very inconvenient. Medical shears let you easily free them without risking hurting them. Send a text message to your kinky friend who loves rope bondage - they should definitely own a few pairs of medical shears you can borrow.

NINE: practice PEACE. I don't mean to suddenly hit you with some high-minded pacifism. I mean you must find peace with your fellow protester. Kettling works by pushing people close enough together for long enough that internal fights and arguments break out. A shoving match between protesters can be a great excuse for cops to bust in and "pacify." Practice peace with your protest neighbors. Singing is a great tool for this. Embrace old movement standbys, however corny they are: "This Land is Your Land," "Kumbaya," even. "We Shall Overcome" is the most powerful one and can help you survive almost anything emotionally, but frankly, you should probably let POC start the singing on this one. This song doesn't belong to white folks.

I hope these anecdotes were helpful! If you're going to a protest, make sure to set up a safety call with someone who isn't there that you can check in with to say that you're safe! Mob mentality is a real thing, so decide beforehand what your limits are and what you're unwilling to do. If you put yourself at risk, do it strategically, not for ego!

Love and light to all of you. Stay safe. Be powerful.

[Guard Dog]

The Qualified Immunity enjoyed by police is essentially a license to kill, assault, steal, and brutalize. It shields police from most civil action and some criminal action for doing whatever they do while on duty. As long as it is done on the job, they get a pass. It does not shield them from criminal charges obviously. But it is a big reason cops generally get away with what Gromnir accurately called "causal brutality". I've been arguing it should be taken away for years. Now it just might happen:

Qualified immunity’ for police getting fresh look by Supreme Court after George Floyd death

Markey, Harris, Booker to introduce resolution calling for elimination of qualified immunity

Both the US Supreme Court and the US Senate are attacking the concept. THIS will go a long way to reducing police violence. They are sadistic because they can be with pretty close to impunity. Take that away and things begin to improve. 

[Skarpen]

Official autopsy report was released. Can be read here:
https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdfUjawniono

Seems like the charges of manslaughter will not hold.

 

  

31 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

The Qualified Immunity enjoyed by police is essentially a license to kill, assault, steal, and brutalize. It shields police from most civil action and some criminal action for doing whatever they do while on duty. As long as it is done on the job, they get a pass. It does not shield them from criminal charges obviously. But it is a big reason cops generally get away with what Gromnir accurately called "causal brutality". I've been arguing it should be taken away for years. Now it just might happen:

Qualified immunity’ for police getting fresh look by Supreme Court after George Floyd death

Markey, Harris, Booker to introduce resolution calling for elimination of qualified immunity

Both the US Supreme Court and the US Senate are attacking the concept. THIS will go a long way to reducing police violence. They are sadistic because they can be with pretty close to impunity. Take that away and things begin to improve. 

Good, qualified immunity seems like a dumb idea.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Skarpen

[Malcador]

57 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

The Qualified Immunity enjoyed by police is essentially a license to kill, assault, steal, and brutalize. It shields police from most civil action and some criminal action for doing whatever they do while on duty. As long as it is done on the job, they get a pass. It does not shield them from criminal charges obviously. But it is a big reason cops generally get away with what Gromnir accurately called "causal brutality". I've been arguing it should be taken away for years. Now it just might happen:

Qualified immunity’ for police getting fresh look by Supreme Court after George Floyd death

Markey, Harris, Booker to introduce resolution calling for elimination of qualified immunity

Both the US Supreme Court and the US Senate are attacking the concept. THIS will go a long way to reducing police violence. They are sadistic because they can be with pretty close to impunity. Take that away and things begin to improve. 

Wonder what tantrum cops and their unions will throw as a result of this.

[Guard Dog]

55 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Wonder what tantrum cops and their unions will throw as a result of this.

Probably not much because they know it is unlikely to happen. If the Supreme Court finds a pretext to take the issue up I am thinking this goes 7-2 against making any changes. Goresuch and Sotomayor will probably bite. Thomas is a wildcard on this one. He could go either way. Ginsburg, Breyer, and Kagan almost never rule against a governing sovereign when it's general power is at issue. They will be a hard no. Roberts is too in love with maintaining the status quo and Kavanaugh will follow his lead. Alito is way too pro-police. 

Even this Senate resolution is just for show. Resolutions are meaningless. 

Remember your earliest teachings Malcador, all who have power fear to lose it. The police ARE power. The states are not going to weaken them. They will say all the right things and when everything has calmed down and attention is diverted elsewhere this talk will end and nothing will change.

Just like they do with Civil Asset Forfeiture.  It is a literal license to steal. They will NEVER, EVER give that up. No matter what they say around election time. Government is a legalized mafia. 

[Malcador]

Well, just read cop forums for a laugh most of the time and a lot feel like resigning if that happens and based on past events I can see many stomping their feet about their jobs being harder or something. The other big pushes are to defund them, not quite sure that is the solution - sort of odd how things switch with this, conservatives seem to want more money to a service and liberals don't, hah.

Also, Mattis criticized Trump, also rightfully takes Esper to task for the 'battlespace' remark (nothing like corporate speak, hah) - https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/06/james-mattis-denounces-trump-protests-militarization/612640/

 

[213374U]

Dozens of public health and disease experts have signed an open letter in support of the nationwide anti-racism protests.

"Infectious disease and public health narratives adjacent to demonstrations against racism must be consciously anti-racist, and infectious disease experts must be clear and consistent in prioritizing an anti-racist message."

Protesting is wrong, irresponsible behavior that puts everyone in danger until the right people do it for the right reasons.

 

[Raithe]

Hm. So what are the various points on ..

[Raithe]

Foreign Policy - A moment of National Shame and Peril - and Hope

Keep in mind who the author of this piece is: John Allen, now retired, was a four-star general in the Marines and the commander of US forces in Afghanistan in the period 2011-2013. This piece comes on top of similar statements by former chairman of the joints chiefs of staff Admiral Mullen and former four-star Marine general Mattis who was also the former Secretary of the Defense.

 

 

[Raithe]

Also for interests sake:  BuzzfeedNews - Keeping track of the hoaxes and misleading posts about the riots and police brutality

[Skarpen]

41 minutes ago, Raithe said:

Hm. So what are the various points on ..

Yeah a neutral pH disinfectant that never caused as much as a sneeze is giving people blisters now. 

[ShadySands]

42 minutes ago, Skarpen said:

a neutral pH disinfectant that never caused as much as a sneeze

What makes you think this is the case? Also, the claim is extreme exposure

From the manufacturer

Quote

Hazard Statements: Harmful if swallowed. Harmful if inhaled. Causes severe skin burns and serious eye damage

 

[Hildegard]

https://twitter.com/MuradGazdiev/status/1268206979723546625?s=20

In what city are these esteemed protesters fighting for racial equality? Anyone know? 

[Hurlshort]

Wait, inexpensive industrial cleaning agents are harmful? Shocking.

[Elerond]

https://www.spartanchemical.com/sds/downloads/AGHS/EN/1202.pdf

GHS Classification

• Acute Toxicity - Oral: Category 4
• Acute toxicity - Inhalation (Dusts/Mists) Category 4
• Skin Corrosion/Irritation: Category 1 Sub-category
• B Serious Eye Damage/Eye Irritation: Category 1

Use only outdoors or in a well-ventilated area

Wear protective gloves. Wear eye / face protection. Wear protective clothing.

-Skin IF ON SKIN (or hair): Take off immediately all contaminated clothing. Rinse skin with water or shower. Wash contaminated clothing before reuse

 

 

Seems safe to me 

[majestic]

On 5/31/2020 at 3:37 AM, Gorth said:

Sure, it ended up paying well, gave some truly unique and interesting experiences (traveling around the world, twice, in the literal sense of the word, winning Microsoft best of world wide awards, getting invited to private Oscar parties, all memorable stuff), but was it worth paying 30 years of my life for?

So, hm, @Gorth, you're from Denmark, then went on to win Microsoft awards and are an ERP developer. You don't happen to have worked at Damgaard, Navision or the combined NavisionDamgaard at some point in your life, have you? Or... say, still work with their product(s)?

(Pretty please just say no)

Edited June 4, 2020 by majestic

[Gromnir]

5 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Probably not much because they know it is unlikely to happen. If the Supreme Court finds a pretext to take the issue up I am thinking this goes 7-2 against making any changes. Goresuch and Sotomayor will probably bite. Thomas is a wildcard on this one. He could go either way. Ginsburg, Breyer, and Kagan almost never rule against a governing sovereign when it's general power is at issue. They will be a hard no. Roberts is too in love with maintaining the status quo and Kavanaugh will follow his lead. Alito is way too pro-police. 

Even this Senate resolution is just for show. Resolutions are meaningless. 

Remember your earliest teachings Malcador, all who have power fear to lose it. The police ARE power. The states are not going to weaken them. They will say all the right things and when everything has calmed down and attention is diverted elsewhere this talk will end and nothing will change.

Just like they do with Civil Asset Forfeiture.  It is a literal license to steal. They will NEVER, EVER give that up. No matter what they say around election time. Government is a legalized mafia. 

as you might guess, we don't agree with your analysis, but is not your fault 'cause articles you read is ****e.

previous standard before Court in the 60s created qualified immunity were total immunity. qualified were the activist Court members limiting the common law standard. is thus a complete misinterpretation o' Thomas' comments in the abc article. also, qualified immunity is not specific a cop thing. if the Court changes, they gotta change for all government agents acting in their official capacity. nope. not gonna happen.

regardless, is a civil liability issue-- not criminal. am not certain potential civil liability is what is gonna be the magic wand which does away with police violence. whatever impact it has will be felt most by municipalities as they is gonna necessarily be co-defendants in the claims brought 'gainst cops for badness. 

only certainty we see from bolstering the standard (again, previous standard were total immunity, so what folks actual want is a more rigorous measure rather than less) is a whole lotta lawyers getting rich. sounds better to describe as lifting or removing qualified immunity as 'posed to bolstering, and that is the kinda hair-brained hijinks legislative bodies may indulge. 

am knowing folks want/need to do something, and exorcise qualified immunity for cops sounds like something. we got no doubt if such a resolution passed and became law, then state and local police/sheriffs would alter their training schemes immediate, which would be a good thing. maybe make a difference? dunno. regardless, we do know the real winners would be the lawyers.

...

gd has convinced us. this is a fine idea and we support it completely. end retirement and get to enjoy our personal joel grey moment?

HA! Good Fun!