Politics XXXV (Life in the Vault is about to change)

[Guard Dog]

@Bartimaeus Primary voting is problematic for me because of my party affiliation. But you are absolutely correct in saying better candidates run than end up on the ballot. Steve Bullock and Tulsi Gabbard were both Democrat candidates I would have supported. The former enthusiastically, the latter less so but she would have gotten my vote. In '16 I would have voted for either Rand Paul or Jeb Bush without reservation. I also would have voted for James Webb on the Democrat side. 

There are intelligent, reasonable  and pragmatic candidates in every primary. Usually not many and they are usually DOA at the first debate. 

As for the so called false equivalency, the United States is just shy of $25T in debt. It is increasing at a rate of $15k per second. Four years ago it was spending $12k per second.  Is that going to get better or worse following the 2020 Election? No matter who wins? I think you know the answer. There is no difference. Every President since George HW Bush has presided over an erosion of civil liberty.  We already know Trump is not bucking that trend. Is there anything in Joe Biden's history to suggest we might? There is not.  Every President since Woodrow Wilson has usurped powers that rightfully belong to Congress., State Government, or just never existed prior to them doing it.  Every. One.  We already know Trump has during this virus mess and in abusing Tariff power that the President does not have. Is there anything about Biden's 40 years in public service to suggest he won't. There is not.  I'm sorry but the equivalency is anything but false.  

Edited May 5, 2020 by Guard Dog
spelling

[pmp10]

On 5/3/2020 at 10:55 PM, Skarpen said:

Except it's not posted on badly researched denialist blog, it's posted by Michael Moore who isn't denialist as far as I know. And from the look of it this wasn't predictable at all because it is self criticism from people on the same side rather then opposition.

The point being that authors don't matter, it's the classic 'technology isn't perfect' attack piece that transitions into yet another Koch brother conspiracy.
It's build on misleading comparisons so it can draw absurd conclusions and offers no solutions to boot. 
If you really want self-criticism from environmentalist movement there are saner voices out there. 

[Guard Dog]

New gun control coming to Canada. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-gun-control-measures-ban-1.5552131

 

But... in true Canadian fashion they are being nice about it. They will wait two full years before they send men with guns to kick down your door and take your guns. And while they will still beat the absolute f--k out of you in the process, and likely kill all your pets too, at the very least they won't shoot your children like they do here in the US. So there is that. 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

38 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

the very least they won't shoot your children like they do here in the US

That's a pretty big least.

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

New gun control coming to Canada. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-gun-control-measures-ban-1.5552131

 

But... in true Canadian fashion they are being nice about it. They will wait two full years before they send men with guns to kick down your door and take your guns. And while they will still beat the absolute f--k out of you in the process, and likely kill all your pets too, at the very least they won't shoot your children like they do here in the US. So there is that. 

They should ban the M14 just for it being crap. 

Sort of surprised by this though, and definitely won't help given guns smuggled in from the US.

[Volourn]

Just another law targeting people who already follow the law and aren't a threat with guns.  This is just so they can pretend they are doing something. It won't solve a damn thing except make more criminals and lead to more deaths, theft by gov't and prison time for non threatening citizens.

 

But, in the end, Nazis will Nazi. And, PM Blackface is definitely a 21 century Nazi. I hagve no doubt he would kill and inprison more people for 'wrongthink' if he could.

[Malcador]

Was expecting more than 3 'Nazi''s in Volo's take on it.

[Volourn]

I was in a rush. Sorry.

[Raithe]

Is it too much?

[Guard Dog]

So the IRS has been sending stimulus checks to people years dead: https://abc7news.com/finance/treasury-dept-wants-stimulus-money-back-from-dead-recipients/6154344/

They have also sent small business bailout money to such worthy small business as Harvard University (received $12.4M despite controlling a $34B trust), the Los Angeles Lakers (they make $49M annually just in merchandise licensing alone, not counting actual operations earning) and General Electric (whose 1Q earning thus year were $2.98B). Now.. they DID send that money back. But only after it was revealed in the press that it happened. But the pizza place in Covington TN just announced they cannot re-open and will be gone after 43 years. They didn't get a goddamned nickel. 

The US Federal government can't  even give away money competently. But this same government told us in the last administration they could lower the temperature of the earth if we just paid them more taxes. 

The misplaced faith of people everywhere to cede more of their rights and money to governments everywhere in exchange for empty promises would be comical if it wasn't so f-----g sad.  

[Guard Dog]

Possible ways to move forward w/o Biden: 

https://newrepublic.com/article/157556/democrats-arent-stuck-joe-biden

https://jacobinmag.com/2020/05/joe-biden-democratic-party-presidential-primary-sanders

[Raithe]

[Raithe]

I was somewhat amused by a line I saw earlier today:

"You realise the US just pulled $6.2 Trillion out of its ass without blinking but said they'd go broke providing healthcare as a right."

[Raithe]

[Orogun01]

1 hour ago, Raithe said:

I was somewhat amused by a line I saw earlier today:

"You realise the US just pulled $6.2 Trillion out of its ass without blinking but said they'd go broke providing healthcare as a right."

One is emergency money to maintain the economy, the other is just a drain of resources that will drive up the cost of healthcare.

[Malcador]

1 hour ago, Raithe said:

I was somewhat amused by a line I saw earlier today:

"You realise the US just pulled $6.2 Trillion out of its ass without blinking but said they'd go broke providing healthcare as a right."

Well the way the US spends money on, heh, defense should have already made it clear.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

2 hours ago, Raithe said:

I was somewhat amused by a line I saw earlier today:

"You realise the US just pulled $6.2 Trillion out of its ass without blinking but said they'd go broke providing healthcare as a right."

Well one is largely a direct benefit to a certain class of people, while the other interferes in the short term profits of a business model built around not providing services and would negatively impact the same group of folks the former benefits.

[Skarpen]

4 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Possible ways to move forward w/o Biden: 

https://newrepublic.com/article/157556/democrats-arent-stuck-joe-biden

https://jacobinmag.com/2020/05/joe-biden-democratic-party-presidential-primary-sanders

The problem is Dems got in a zugzwang where every move they make will end up a disaster. Biden have to many back rank weaknesses for Trump to exploit and if they replace him then Trump will be against either a loser (one of the primary candidates) or a usurper who got nominated by throwing the whole primary process in the thrash. The only chance would be if Dems would somehow bring a Messiah type candidate and I can only imagine one name that would stand a chance.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Skarpen

[Gfted1]

2 hours ago, Orogun01 said:

One is emergency money to maintain the economy, the other is just a drain of resources that will drive up the cost of healthcare.

Let poor Raithe slide, hes been on a "try-too-hard" rip lately.

[Hurlshort]

2 hours ago, Orogun01 said:

One is emergency money to maintain the economy, the other is just a drain of resources that will drive up the cost of healthcare.

Uh...

 

[Orogun01]

3 hours ago, Malcador said:

Well the way the US spends money on, heh, defense should have already made it clear.

Defense spending is deliberately wasteful as both a way to secure the next year's budget and to hide secret projects.

[Guard Dog]

[Calax]

On 5/4/2020 at 11:34 PM, Guard Dog said:

@Bartimaeus Primary voting is problematic for me because of my party affiliation. But you are absolutely correct in saying better candidates run than end up on the ballot. Steve Bullock and Tulsi Gabbard were both Democrat candidates I would have supported. The former enthusiastically, the latter less so but she would have gotten my vote. In '16 I would have voted for either Rand Paul or Jeb Bush without reservation. I also would have voted for James Webb on the Democrat side. 

There are intelligent, reasonable  and pragmatic candidates in every primary. Usually not many and they are usually DOA at the first debate. 

As for the so called false equivalency, the United States is just shy of $25T in debt. It is increasing at a rate of $15k per second. Four years ago it was spending $12k per second.  Is that going to get better or worse following the 2020 Election? No matter who wins? I think you know the answer. There is no difference. Every President since George HW Bush has presided over an erosion of civil liberty.  We already know Trump is not bucking that trend. Is there anything in Joe Biden's history to suggest we might? There is not.  Every President since Woodrow Wilson has usurped powers that rightfully belong to Congress., State Government, or just never existed prior to them doing it.  Every. One.  We already know Trump has during this virus mess and in abusing Tariff power that the President does not have. Is there anything about Biden's 40 years in public service to suggest he won't. There is not.  I'm sorry but the equivalency is anything but false.  

I would argue that right now the primary system ensures that only the two main party candidates get the office of the president because the primary's provide so much news coverage. Within the primaries the most reactionary members of each party (Trump and Sanders for the past two) maintain a really simple and easy position towards the final, because they are far enough from the center their base isn't going to move. The more moderate candidates either quickly figure out who among them is going to be their standard bearer, or they spend so long fighting themselves that the extreme member seems unassailable by the time a leader is sorted out.

 

Personally I think Pete was the best option for President, and would win if we had all the primaries on the same day. But the way things worked out Meh.

 

And GD, if you really want to go back to "usurping powers" you're probably gonna have to move your point back to Teddy Roosevelt. 

[Malcador]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/from-a-miami-condo-to-the-venezuelan-coast-how-a-plan-to-capture-maduro-went-rogue/2020/05/06/046222bc-8e4a-11ea-9322-a29e75effc93_story.html

Pretty interesting story, this "operation".

[Bartimaeus]

27 minutes ago, Calax said:

Personally I think Pete was the best option for President, and would win if we had all the primaries on the same day. But the way things worked out Meh.

...Buttigieg? The guy who was polling ~1-2% in almost every state except the two early races where he spent all his time and money on in the hopes of getting enough coverage to launch a real campaign? Yeah, somehow, I don't think so. If they had all been held on the same day, Bernie would've almost certainly been the leader (although not necessarily the winner, since an outright winner does require >50% of delegates) due to having the largest individual base while the rest of the race was splintered. That was why everyone but Biden dropped out the night before Super Tuesday to make sure Bernie wouldn't have won in a Trump-esque fashion.