Coronavirus: Continuing Vigilance

[rjshae]

^ Dude forgot the steampunk goggles...

[Raithe]

Quote for the day to go with the protests against "tyranny" in the US :  "I love hearing conservative Christians talk about how they're not going to let something invisible control their lives."

[Volourn]

That makes no sense on either side. The US gvo't isn't an 'invisible entity'. It is real, it exists, and it doesn't give a **** about you.

Both sides trying to compare the US gov't to the Christian 'god' are idiots.

Afterall, if one doesn't believe in god than one can't blame him for awful happenings but the US gov['t is surely real and is responsible for some evil ****.

 

Problem is both sides are two faced. They are only pro (or anti gvo't) when it suits their purposes. 

Lefties: US gov't is evil, and commits mass murders and is bad for supporting dictatorships. and intervering in others lives in other countries.

Also lefties: Want gvo't to ban all sorts of things, they hate mass imprisonment but are also pro mass imprisonment and murder. Claim to be pro freedom of speech but also want to ban music, tv, books, and movies.

 

Rights: Anti gov't when it comes to defending their guns, and religious rights, and freedom of speech and pure freedom.

Also Righties: Want to ban music, tv, books, and movies.  Don't like vaccinations b/c of gov't conspiracies.

 

Scum. ALL OF THEM.

[rjshae]

Must be in Georgia.

[Elerond]

It seems that miracle cure doesn't work

https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2

A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.

The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.

....

About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too, but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival.

Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.

[rjshae]

^ It should be noted that hydroxychloroquine tended to be administered to the more severe cases. Personally I'm waiting on the large-scale peer-reviewed study.

[Zoraptor]

Yeah, you aren't going to give an experimental hail mary treatment to non severe cases. But even with that proviso the results and others like it still aren't good for it as a treatment.

Trouble with the hype for hydroxychloroquine has always been that's unlike some of the other hyped possibilities (like anti HIV drugs; whose target is an RNA virus like sarscovfefe too SARS-CoV2 is as well) there's absolutely no intrinsic reason why an anti malarial should be effective as an anti viral agent, especially against a virus that uses RNA. Even though the results for it are intrinsically biased they are enough to show it isn't reliably a cure, let alone a miracle cure that will stop the virus in its tracks.

[BruceVC]

5 hours ago, Elerond said:

It seems that miracle cure doesn't work

https://apnews.com/a5077c7227b8eb8b0dc23423c0bbe2b2

A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.

The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.

....

About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too, but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival.

Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.

 

But surely by now you should be able to  understand  and recognize the difference  between Trumps tweets and general vacuous comments and when he says something that is true?

For example when he mentioned hydroxychloroquine as  a possible " corona cure " in that same discussion Dr Fauci responded that there has to be extensive clinical tests on any cure or vaccine which basically translates to "  ignore what Trump said " 

So in summary Im saying dont waste so much time analyzing and criticizing what Trump says unless its supported by some of his advisors who do know what they saying and actually understand the facts. And this applies to basically everything he says, this is exactly what his entire presidency has been about and Im always surprised how globally people are still fixated on what he says as if its official USA policy

[Gromnir]

5 hours ago, Zoraptor said:

Yeah, you aren't going to give an experimental hail mary treatment to non severe cases. But even with that proviso the results and others like it still aren't good for it as a treatment.

Trouble with the hype for hydroxychloroquine has always been that's unlike some of the other hyped possibilities (like anti HIV drugs; whose target is an RNA virus like sarscovfefe too SARS-CoV2 is as well) there's absolutely no intrinsic reason why an anti malarial should be effective as an anti viral agent, especially against a virus that uses RNA. Even though the results for it are intrinsically biased they are enough to show it isn't reliably a cure, let alone a miracle cure that will stop the virus in its tracks.

there is at least a kinda/sorta intuitive link 'tween use o' a drug meant for lupus patients and those covid-19 victims who suffer cytokine storm. however, cytokine storm as the cause o' death for covid-19, while having been observed, is representing a small % o' cases. as a prophylaxis kinda drug, as 'posed to a hail mary, it might be worth testing 'pon the young and healthy?

am honest talking out our arse 'bout who might benefit from hydroxychloroquine, but am seeing how in some extreme small # o' covid-19 cases, a lupus drug don't sound utter ridiculous.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gorth]

Not sure how I missed this, it's already a bit old, but still some good jabs at the White House (this one for once not taking aim at Canberra, but Washington)

 

 

[Gromnir]

Can the coronavirus be spread through farts?

"Tagg [Australian emergency physician Dr. Andy Tagg] pondered whether flatulence itself is an “aerosol-generating procedure.” (His determination: yes.) A recent study, in fact, suggested a post-flush toilet plume could even be cause for concern when it comes to spreading the coronavirus via “aerosolized feces.” Plus, scientists have confirmed that fecal-oral transmission itself is an issue due to the presence of the virus in poop, which is why health officials in Oregon and New York have even cautioned against oral contact with feces during sex.

"Unfortunately, as Tagg observed, there is “not a great deal of research” available to come to a firm conclusion about the perils of passing COVID-19 while passing gas."

...

got 'bout a dozen one-liners, including a half -dozen "keep your pants on," jokes which we were tempted to include. 

oh hell, why not.

next time you use a public toilet or decide to go get your mail sans pants, keep in mind warden norton's demise were 'caused by a miraculous fart in the wind. stay safe.

HA! Good Fun!

[Gfted1]

Weeks two without finding powdered yeast in the store...my wife is getting twitchy.  On the plus side we made some home made face masks out of bandana's and using hair bands as the hooks around the ears. But this was hella uncomfortable behind my ears so someone I know 3D printed me a contraption that goes behind your head (like a ballcap strap) and has hooks to connect the hair bands.

[BruceVC]

11 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Weeks two without finding powdered yeast in the store...my wife is getting twitchy.  

Tell your wife thats a classic " middle class problem  " ....Im sure that will make her feel better 

[Malcador]

27 minutes ago, Gfted1 said:

Weeks two without finding powdered yeast in the store...my wife is getting twitchy.  On the plus side we made some home made face masks out of bandana's and using hair bands as the hooks around the ears. But this was hella uncomfortable behind my ears so someone I know 3D printed me a contraption that goes behind your head (like a ballcap strap) and has hooks to connect the hair bands.

Yeah, it's annoying.  Luckily our local bakery knows we are a regular so is going to hook us up with 3 packs, hah.  Could you try making your own yeast ?

Not many people wearing masks around here, yuppies in Toronto are a special kind of selfish I guess.  Today I get to brave the grocery store.

[Raithe]

 

[Raithe]

[rjshae]

More evidence is coming to light that COVID-19 is causing clotting complications.

A coronavirus patient thought he was recovering. Then doctors found blood clots in his lungs — a new and potentially deadly complication of the virus.

This is decidedly not the flu.

[Zoraptor]

Less life threatening but there's also foot lesions showing up as a symptom, especially in younger and otherwise asymptomatic cases. That would more typically be seen in something like chickenpox.

16 hours ago, Gromnir said:

as a prophylaxis kinda drug, as 'posed to a hail mary, it might be worth testing 'pon the young and healthy?

That would be the use case that seems most likely from its current uses, certainly, but even there the troubles with using it are multiple. Fundamentally, not many young people are badly effected, so there's little need for a preventative at this point. If things get bad with the young they seem to get bad very suddenly, but hydroxychloroquine is used to treat slow acting chronic autoimmune problems like rheumatoid arthritis and lupus, not a very rapidly accumulating positive feedback loop. HCQ is an immunosuppressant so is potentially of use against the immune system freaking out, but you don't really want to give immunosuppressants to people who would otherwise very likely clear the infection quickly as you raise the chance of the infection lingering and potentially doing more direct damage itself, let alone any potential side effects of HCQ itself. And as above it does treat chronic autoimmune problems, specifically cases where the immune system attacks its own host (more or less) directly, whereas a cytokine storm is a very acute runaway positive feedback loop aimed at least in covid19 or 'Spanish' flu type cases at attacking a genuine invader- so while they are both problems with the immune system the mechanisms by which the problems occur are significantly different.

I almost mentioned that as a potential use, but decided it was simply too marginal a possibility and would be functionally misleading. That probably was the thought behind it being mentioned in the first place- end of the day though treatments based either on existing antivirals or existing methods of treating more similar secondary effects are more likely to be useful.

It does have to be said that Trump did not pull its name out of the blue and it was suggested and has been tested as a treatment by actual doctors. If it weren't for Trump trying to hype it as a miracle cure it would be in a 'worth a try, I guess' sort of category; unfortunately it seems to have been used mostly so Trump can claim that everything will be all right real soon now, trust him.

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Zoraptor

[rjshae]

[Bartimaeus]

So close to 9/11 on a single day...and some of these states are starting to reopen.

[Hiro Protagonist]

This documentary asks a lot of valid questions on the origin of the virus. It's well known for months that there were no bats being sold at the wet markets and the lab was always in the spotlight. But it's interesting the science of the virus shown in this.

 

[Azdeus]

1 hour ago, Hiro Protagonist said:

This documentary asks a lot of valid questions on the origin of the virus. It's well known for months that there were no bats being sold at the wet markets and the lab was always in the spotlight. But it's interesting the science of the virus shown in this.

 

"...many questions remain about the origin of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) virus..."

Sounds legit, much scientific.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Azdeus

[Hiro Protagonist]

7 minutes ago, Azdeus said:

"...many questions remain about the origin of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) virus..."

Sounds legit, much scientific.

I was only interested in the science which the doctors were discussing. The guy in the documentary comes across as a tool with his propaganda.

[Bartimaeus]

[BruceVC]

4 hours ago, Hiro Protagonist said:

This documentary asks a lot of valid questions on the origin of the virus. It's well known for months that there were no bats being sold at the wet markets and the lab was always in the spotlight. But it's interesting the science of the virus shown in this.

 

So this particularly theory is not the normal fake news around the origin of the virus, it is interesting and some credible scientists have ostensibly supported it. If you want to believe the science and the absolute truth about the origin of the virus I am not sure we will ever know with 100 % certainty. I personally believe it absolutely comes from bats and from Wuhan animal market for the reasons below. However its incorrect to say " its well known that bats werent sold at the wet markets " , bats have been a stable form of food in Asia and some African countries and

• I have seen documentaries that were filmed about the Wuhan market made before the virus  and you can clearly see bats and many other animals in  cages about to be sold for food 
• Its is well known that bats were and still eaten in Asia and Africa as I mentioned 
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bat_as_food
  • https://recipes.howstuffworks.com/menus/bats-delicacy.htm
• We know form the science and understanding of the genesis of viruses that bats are indeed carriers of many of these diseases 
  • https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/29/health/bats-viruses-coronavirus-scn/index.html

So Im not saying you wrong, I am suggesting the most likely reason for this Zoonotic disease is the still the reason most believe which is the Wuhan market because of the many viruses that have been proven to come from animals like bats

Finally the most important question is really " does it matter the true origin of the virus" because if it was accidentally created in a lab or transmitted from animals to humans  we know 2 things with certainty

• it comes from China
• it can now spread from human to human and has become a global pandemic which needs to be addressed and this is the most important point 

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by BruceVC